question re. moving up and down the plans vs eating a bit of chicken

[Dancing]

Hi peeps.

I've been reading about people saying they are going to have a nibble of this or that. That they won't be able to avoid a work lunch/last half a day without eating something.

My thoughts are that if a person has in their head that they are on SS and then on a particular day they are going to SS+ or 810 or even 1000 and then go back to SS, it is different to someone just having an uncontrolled/unplanned/excuse to eat.

Do CDCs have any experience of whether it works differently.

I really am not one that is pro nibbling/having mini breaks on the diet as I've seen too many people struggle as a result (myself included) and I feel it is definitely not recommended in the early stages of the diet (well, not ever really but definitely not in the first 6-8 weeks).

But, I do suggest sometimes that people can move up and down through the plans when they have an occassion they feel they can't avoid eating. I feel that moving up and down the plans is structured and has a set of boundaries that help us avoid slipping down the slippery slope.

Is there a difference or do they both lead to the same struggle in the end?

Just curious.

[klee]

i completely agree with you, i have been there myself before and the main reason i am back here is because of those "nibbles" hence 4 stone heavier and ssing again!

[Porgeous]

I think it depends on the individual. For me personally my feelings on CD were that the abstinence was part of the process, ie, breaking the relationship with food altogether to give me space to consider my eating habits without complicating it with food. By nibbling I would not have given myself the space I needed. When I began to work up the plans I re-established my relationship with food but on a different basis, one where I was in control. Another thought that springs to mind is that the process of eating itself can actually make you feel hungrier which leads to more nibbling and so on and so forth.

Rather controversially I also believe that by doing something that in theory you have committed not to do you are reinforcing old habits of having what you want or making excuses to eat which can lead to feelings of failure. I think it is more productive to choose the right plan for yourself whatever that may be and stick to it, this should then reinforce positive feelings of success and control.

Don't mean to offend anyone just my thoughts really xxx

[Dancing]

oh good comment about choosing the right plan in the beginning, and taking into consideration all that is coming up in the future etc when choosing that plan. Yes, I like that thought very much.

[Dinosaur]

You see that completely describes the way I have approached CD.

I knew from the outset that SSing was just not going to happen, so I've always dabbled around the plans - SS during the week then SS+ at weekends. Currently I'm on the 810 plan, but occassionally have SS+ days, and last weekend was the first time I had a 1000 day.

But for me it was always a concious choice, and has never been a licence to eat. I'm not saying I've never had a slip up, but I don't feel at all guilty for eating as I know that I am following the plan in the best way to fit in with my lifestyle.

Ultimately SSing properly is probably the best way, and sticking to the plan you choose means that you are less likely to slip, but in my case I now no longer 'nibble' as it's now no longer forbidden

In fact I now find it easier to SS knowing that I've got a meal in the evenings, than it would be if I knew I had nothing - whether I actually eat the meal at night or not!.

So, I think it really is down to your mindset on this diet. I was ready to stop my previous eating habits, and choose this path to weight loss, but things that were important to me meant that I couldn't SS. But I am still committed to sticking to the diet as best I can, and that for me means moving around the plans over the course of a week.

[blue_grapefruit]

Is it to do with labelling though?

Porgeous did CD one way (ok, ultimately the "right" way) but dinosaur has done CD another way, and still lost an amazing amount of weight...

Do you think that saying "i'm on SS" kinda puts pressure on you to stick with it?

Diets like CD, well i've never seen anything like it when it comes to cheating. One cheat normally leads to a total blowout largely due to the "instant" weight gain that is associated with glycogen store build up. This in the long run leads to dissapointment, and starts the cheating cycle again? If i was on WW and i went seriously over my points, then i would expect a small gain but at least i could spend the next few days making sure i was under my points and try and make up for my "cheat".

Am i making sense? No? Sorry, rambling.

Anyway, perhaps it is easier for some people to stick to a strict diet, where as in others you need the flexibility to move up and down the plans....i do reckon moving up and down to suit your needs is better than picking though as it still means you are planning your meals and learning about how to eat properly....

[kellymundy]

Before I went on holiday I wanted to lose the weight as fast as possible so made the concious decision to stick solidly to ss i.e absolutely no eating what-so-ever bar aamw.
Now I've had my holiday and my weight loss goal is long term I know I will find it hard to stick to it 100% unless I allow myself one suitable weekly treat, which is a simple oven baked chicken breast. If I know that I have this to look forward to each week I find the rest of the week ss'ing so much easier and I don't fixate on food at all.
I still see myself a ss'ing as this one chicken breast once a week is a concious decision to eat (and one that won't knock me out of ketosis) and it actually aids me in my focus to reach my long term goal. I never have and strongly believe that I never will 'cheat' and start picking at this and that just to have something to eat and for me it is partly due to allowing myself this one thing each week and partly because I know to be able to maintain at the end of this journey I need to keep my head in the game (been watching High School Musical to much me thinks!).
I have adapted the plan slightly to suit my lifestyle and it works for me but I strongly believe in what others have said here, that you have to really look hard at yourself and the plans and be honest with yourself about which one you can stick to the easiest.
I'm starting to ramble I think so I'll stop now before I bore you all into an eating binge!

[minilady]

Great question B!

I think Georgies points were very valid and I agree totally with what she said, but then I was also like G and stuck to the plan 100%.

From what I've seen with my clients it seems to be a case of different things work for different people. I have some clients that do move up and down the plans with no problems what so ever and it dosent lead them to overeat at all. However I have found these people to be in the minority

For the majority, even a planned break or move up the plans leads to problems with sticking with the diet. Although their break or plan move was planned and they enjoy it, afterwards there is still a part of them that thinks oh what if I'd stuck to it, did I need to break really and then the guilt feelings return and they feel a failure even though of course they're not.

Maybe it boils down to a self confidence issue If you are confident and positive that this way will work for you, then chances are it will. If however you are not confident in yourself and your relationship with food (like me) then breaking the initial plan you've started on may lead to eventual failure as that's how you'd feel, a failure

Sorry haven't really helped have I

Tracey
x

[blue_grapefruit]

For the majority, even a planned break or move up the plans leads to problems with sticking with the diet. Although their break or plan move was planned and they enjoy it, afterwards there is still a part of them that thinks oh what if I'd stuck to it, did I need to break really and then the guilt feelings return and they feel a failure even though of course they're not.

VERY familiar lil paragraph that one. Bloody useless at this diet am i!

[minilady]

VERY familiar lil paragraph that one. Bloody useless at this diet am i!

Hey you!!!! You are definately not useless

Intelligent, witty, pretty and fab haired are better adjectives for you

Tracey
x

[blue_grapefruit]

fab-haired eh?

*mental note to keep up appearances and delude miniminers into thinking i have good hair, do NOT show them bed hair, or "can't be arsed" hair*

hehehe xx

[Dancing]

Maybe it boils down to a self confidence issue If you are confident and positive that this way will work for you, then chances are it will. If however you are not confident in yourself and your relationship with food (like me) then breaking the initial plan you've started on may lead to eventual failure as that's how you'd feel, a failure

Sorry haven't really helped have I

Tracey
x

No you have replied! and I particularly like this bit. .... not that you will read this now you are off on your hols. I liked your answer alot.

[Dinosaur]

For the majority, even a planned break or move up the plans leads to problems with sticking with the diet. Although their break or plan move was planned and they enjoy it, afterwards there is still a part of them that thinks oh what if I'd stuck to it, did I need to break really and then the guilt feelings return and they feel a failure even though of course they're not.

Maybe it boils down to a self confidence issue If you are confident and positive that this way will work for you, then chances are it will. If however you are not confident in yourself and your relationship with food (like me) then breaking the initial plan you've started on may lead to eventual failure as that's how you'd feel, a failurex

I think you have hit the nail on the head there.

For me I was at a point where I was going to lose weight no matter how I did it, and CD fitted my situation best. But although I haven't fully SSed, I have been 100% committed and I have always had the confidence that this WILL work. I never for a moment doubted I would lose the weight. I was, and still am, determind.

So maybe I was at the point where I was going to stick to 'any' diet. And even a self designed hybrid of CD is a diet I can stick to.

I'm not saying that there haven't been day's where I've been intending to SS, and got to the evening, and cooked my DH's tea and thought, 'blow it' and had a small plate - but it has never been anything more than was allowed on the next plan up, and I've not let myself feel guilty about it, which is what I think leads to those diet beating blow outs. It really is a diet that plays with your mind as much as it does with your body - maybe LL have the right idea with the councelling?

I agree that for the majority the structure and strictness of being on a single plan is best, but for those whose lives mean that they can combine 2 plans (in my case one for the week and a higher one at the weekend), and if they have the ability to stick to it, then it can be a good solution.

[Sez]

Phew. Lots of thoughts, and a great thread. I am an all or nothing dieter. I have tried countless times diets such as SW, only to stop because "I cant do this..." and to regain the lot and more besides.

When I began LL in Feb last year, for many months I was the model SS-er. It was only when I began to play about with the diet ( adding a bit of protein here & there because "it wont hurt") that I stretched it to its boundaries completely, had a couple of low loss weeks & that was it.... I HAD to stop because I told myself I was a failure and would never be able to lose weight.

It was when I had regained a considerable amount of weight that I knew (once again after trying the SW route) I had to SS again to get back in control. If I am utterly honest, despite the fab guidance available on this forum, I have played with the plans already (and binged out of control, however I firmly believe these are separate issues) and my head is now telling me I have failed again.

I regret that I do not have the support of a CD counsellor, and am very interested in many of the replies above that suggest many of you monitor your clients and offer advice and support face to face. I think that is fantastic and really wish I had that. Maybe it would help focus me; I dont know. Maybe I am blaming my own shortcomings on lack of counselling; again I dont know.

Sorry, this haas turned into a ramble, didnt mean it to! I guess what I am trying to say is that it IS very much an individual journey but for me I think it needs to be 100% on the chosen plan, or I will regard myself as a failure. (Is that what the question was??? gone on so long I lost my way LOL!!!!)

xx

[karenO]

Hugely thought provoking thread and has certainly struck a chord with me.
Whilst i have stuck to SS, i guess 95% of the time i am still having the occasional nibble. Now i'm talking crumbs, rather than any real amount of food (and i did have a planned day off) and in my mind i've been telling myself that that is ok, i'm not doing any damage.
However reading this has really made me wake up to the fact that as long as this continues i am NOT in control and i have been lucky that it hasnt led to a complete breakdown of my willpower (or maybe my willpower is stronger than i think, possibly? Maybe like Dinosaur i was at that point where i would have stuck to any diet?)
Georgie's point really hit the nail on the head for me

For me personally my feelings on CD were that the abstinence was part of the process, ie, breaking the relationship with food altogether to give me space to consider my eating habits without complicating it with food. By nibbling I would not have given myself the space I needed. When I began to work up the plans I re-established my relationship with food but on a different basis, one where I was in control.

I could have written this myself and this is the very reason i have failed at every other attempt to lose weight. This is the reason i chose to SS on Cambridge and as long as i continue to nibble, no matter how small & infrequent those nibbles are, i'm not really in control of those old deadly habits.