jcjazzy

Min, Just want to echo what the others have said.You are adjusting to the new you which takes time, and of course underneath you are still the same person you were.You seem to be a very harsh judge of yourself at times,and (I hope I'm not being presumptious here )with perfectionist tendencies.I think this diet does encourage black and white thinking due to the extreme nature of it,and our underlying characteristics.If you really do feel you are having a breakdown I suggest you see your GP to access the appropriate help.
I would like to reiterate that you are a valuable member of the board, who always give well-balanced and thoughtful responses to others.I always read your diary and have found it invaluable as I'm now in RTM.Take care and hope tomorrow is a better day xx

__________________

Minerva

2nd July. Thursday.

Thanks everyone for your kind words of support. But … it is difficult to take advice when one doesn’t feel worthy of it.
I guess at the moment I am finding it very difficult to find that sense of “normality”. I very much feel the controlling of food in my head, I can see where it could easily end up. I can see both sides. I can’t give up the control because I never ever want to go back to where I used to be. But I cannot allow myself to give in to the obsessive controlling nature which is developing because it could easily become so much worse. I guess when you’re that much more awake to issues and emotions and scrutinizing them all the time (partly due to LL) it is easy to slip into a darker place.
I am doing the best I can. One day at a time, it’s not all black and white after all. I have learned that there is always a grey area in between. One slip isn’t the end of everything, one day is NOTHING in the grand scheme of things. I can let go. But within limits. I always need to know. I need to control and remember. Strive forward, move. Always keep going. There is no stopping now.

Many issues in my head, many things, it’s all a bit much. But I guess it’s life.
But in times of great emotional need I always have something to turn to. Music. My favourite band: Tool. Strange how every one of their songs can always bend their meaning to however I’m feeling. There’s always a lyric which can describe exactly what is going on.

Pushit. Two conflicting thoughts inside. Compulsive Overeater. Annorexic. Two demons, pushing me. Shoving me down. I need to fight both. I need to remember my own identity in this. I am me. I must not let them make me disappear.

Pushit by Tool.

I will choke until I swallow... Choke this infant here before me.
What is this but my reflection? Who am I to judge and strike you down?

But you're pushing and shoving me.
You still love me and you pushit on me.

Rest your trigger on my finger, bang my head upon the fault line.
Take care not to make me enter, 'cause if I do we both may disappear.

But you're pushing me. Shoving me. Pushit on me.

Slipping back into the gap again. I'm alive when you're touching me,
Alive when you're shoving me down.

But I'd trade it all, for just a little bit of piece of mind.

Put me somewhere I don't wanna be. Seeing someplace I don't wanna see.
Never wanna see that place again.

Saw that gap again today as you were begging me to stay.
Managed to push myself away… and you, as well.

If, when I say I may fade like a sigh if I stay,
You minimize my movement anyway. I must persuade you another way.
There's no love in fear.

Staring down the hole again. Hands upon my back again.
Survival is my only friend. Terrified of what may come.

Just remember I will always love you. Even as I tear your ****ing throat away.
But it will end no other way.

__________________

daisydoll

hmmm
very apt lyrics
you will get through this - you have proved your determination and you have done so well.
you are creative with your food and you offer so much useful insight/ideas/advice - i wish i could add something which would make you believe in your 'worthiness'!
(((((((hugs)))))))
daisy x

__________________







FIRST TIME : JAN 2009
week 1: -8 week 8: -3
week 2: -4 week 9: -4
week 3: -3 week 10: -3
week 4: -2 week 11: -2
week 5: -3 week 12: -3
week 6: -2 week 13: -2
week 7: STS week 14: -3
Total 42lbs (3 stone)
Developers: 8 weeks lost 17lbs by end
RTM: lost 6lbs - gained 7lbs. Finished Sept 7th 2009 at 8.13


RESTART 16th August 2011
Week 1: -9 Week 2: -4 Week 3: -1 Week 4: -3 Week 5: -2.5 week 6: -2 week7:-2 Week 8: -2

Sean(JSF)

Glad you've posted again Min.

I like the lyrics and to a (small) degree can sympathise with the conflicting desires of over/under eating. Too much control is just as damaging as too little as you well know. The 'problem' is that we have compulsive personalities and control can too easily be a substitute for eating. The reality however is that you've got to recognise your inner strength - this shines through to those of us who read your posts. You are a determined, intelligent person who is more than capable of handling the conflicting demons, and in time controlling them (and perhaps even learning to love each one for what they are - an integral part of you).

Don't feel unworthy, that could not be farther from the truth. You are an inspiration to many and just because you are struggling at the moment does not change that - it simply shows that you are Human

Also don't be in too much of a hurry. There's a whole lifetime ahead of you. Tackle these thought as if you were eating an elephant - one small bite at a time (sorry about the metaphor, best I could think of).

Keep positive Min, and know that you are on the final leg of an incredible journey; and keep posting!!

__________________
Abstinence
Week 1 -14lbs Week 2 -8lbs Week 3 -6lbs Week 4 -6lbs Week 5 -5 lbs Week 6 -7lbs Week 7 -5lbs Week 8 -5lbs Week 9 -4lbs Week 10 -6lbs Week 11 -7lbs Week 12 -1lb Week 13 -6lbs Week 14 -5lbs Week 15 -8lbs Total Abstinence loss 93lbs

RTM
Week 1 - 4lb Week 2 - 3lb Week 3 - 5lb Week 4 - away Week 5 - 3lb Week 6 - 4lb Week 7 - STS Week 8 - 4lb Week 9 - STS Week 10 - away Week 11 - 3lb Total RTM loss 26lbs

Sean's RTM Blog

Minerva

My train of thoughts for today... will respond to comments above tomorrow.


4th July. Saturday.

Actually… I’ve found it so useful to move away from the “black & white” thinking. If you can get away from that, I would urge you to. I was all about the black & white before, but it only gave me excuses. On the diet train it induces bad trains of thought. If you’re black and white, then the single biscuit, yes, one biscuit is the end of the diet. It gives the excuse in the mind “Oh I’ll start again tomorrow because I’ve blown it now” … after ONE biscuit?!! Excuse me. One biscuit is what, 60 calories or something depending on what it is? That’s nothing at all. We can easily recover.
Too many times I have given in to that thinking, and you know what? One biscuit is not the be it or end all. It gave permission to be “bad”. Gave permission to keep going down the wrong route because there is a fresh start “tomorrow”… however we ALL KNOW that “tomorrow” you’ll feel ashamed, a failure, guilty, and the spiral will just keep going down, down … and down. If you really WANT the biscuit, choose to have it. ENJOY IT. Leave the rest because realistically one is enough. I have a piece of chocolate every once in a while. I savour it, divide ALL of my attention to my treat. The reason why so many times I overate the snacks was because I took them for granted. I didn’t care about what I was eating, I wasn’t enjoying it, and how many times have we all had the moment when we start a pack of biscuits, and before we know it – suddenly it’s all gone? … think about it. Did you enjoy those biscuits? … you probably don’t even remember having them. … so what’s the point?

If you had the biscuit, then forgive yourself. The fresh start is whenever you make it. There is no tomorrow, because the time to act… is now. This moment. Right here.

Breakfast: Scrambled egg with button mushrooms, diced carrots and cherry tomatoes on the side. ~ 130

Dinner: Dinner at OH’s parent’s house.
Haddock fishcake, ½ Quorn sausage served with lots of vegetables and crunchy salad. Fruit salad (small piece of honeydew melon, 1 satsuma and half a nectarine) as dessert. ~ 490

Late dessert: Crushed meringue with frozen berries and 0% yoghurt. ~160

Snacks throughout the day: Calcium & Vitamin Chews (30), Milk in Coffee (30), Apple (50), Carrot (40) ~ 150

Totals: 930

__________________

daisydoll

hi there min
you are so right - i'm forcing myself to keep positive and learn from my choices (not mistakes) today - and not slide into 'i've blown so i might as well give up' thoughts tomorrow!

i will re- read and re-read this post tomorrow every time i feel like i have blown it over the past few days

cheers hun
daisy x

__________________







FIRST TIME : JAN 2009
week 1: -8 week 8: -3
week 2: -4 week 9: -4
week 3: -3 week 10: -3
week 4: -2 week 11: -2
week 5: -3 week 12: -3
week 6: -2 week 13: -2
week 7: STS week 14: -3
Total 42lbs (3 stone)
Developers: 8 weeks lost 17lbs by end
RTM: lost 6lbs - gained 7lbs. Finished Sept 7th 2009 at 8.13


RESTART 16th August 2011
Week 1: -9 Week 2: -4 Week 3: -1 Week 4: -3 Week 5: -2.5 week 6: -2 week7:-2 Week 8: -2

Minerva

Daisy - it does take a long time to get your head around food, especially after such a long period of abstinence. It will get easier as long as you try to put things into perspective. Try to use the lessons we learnt in LL and what you'd been learning about on your own into practice. I remember you were very much into the psychology of maintenance before you started, have a look back at the literature you found, and apply it now if you can. Embrace your feelings, don't give into guilt, and explore everything. Never be afraid!

Also thank you Sean. You have been such an inspiration to me over these last 11-12 weeks, I almost feel we both went on a trip together, and we do echo each other's sentiments sometimes. This perfectionist inside keeps yelling all the time! I guess I should do the "man" thing sometimes and look at the big picture. Women get too hung up on the details I suppose!


As of today; I have to stop counting calories. I am going away to Latvia with my OH on holiday! I am excited, but at the same time I'm TERRIFIED. I'm scared of giving up that control, I am scared of myself. Because I know that if I give my mind lee-way it CAN slip so easily. That's why I had created calorie boundaries, restrictions, telling my monsters NO. But at the same time, I do know that I will have to relinquish the control eventually anyway. I can't count forever.

But, by doing it for so long, I have finally been able to deal with my food monsters better. Perhaps it makes it easier to personify the feelings, because then I can tell them to F-OFF - rather than blame myself/feel guilty about feeling a certain way which in the end would "victimise" me and make things spiral out of control.

Yes, I do want to binge, I want to go get lots of food and stuff my face. I want to because inside I feel pretty rubbish. But I CHOOSE not to. I want to nibble, I want the stray grape in the fridge, I want. But the 'want-want' monster can shove it because I know I don't like the way the guilt monster makes me feel. He's slimy and disgusting and doesn't leave. I can't wash him off if he ever comes around my door!
Screw that rubbish, I'd rather not even enter that cycle. I just wish the monsters would bugger off though, because they SHOUT SO BLOODY LOUD. Do they ever go away?! Does it get easier? Can someone tell me that, please??

I guess the worst one is: the 'fun-fun' monster. He comes out to play when there's a party around, and everything is great! He's so cute and cuddly, how could anyone deny him an extra biscuit, or an extra slice of cake?! ... he's the dangerous one. He's the one who gives you everything then takes it all away. Leaves you empty and disgusted. Frail and guilty. I can see him coming now though, he was the hardest to spot. "Just one more" he kept saying. "One more won't hurt, another drink, another cookie - don't they taste so good? Don't you want to have fun?" he says. "Look everyone else is doing it, why can't you? Are you not normal?" ... I guess in all his cuteness he hits a painful nerve. Normality. He makes you paranoid and pressured. What will the others think if you don't have extra? ... Godamnit.
I have learnt though - normality is what you make of it. No one actually cares, pressure should be no issue. Last night I CHOSE to have a fruit salad while everyone else was having chocolate cake with ice cream -and I enjoyed it. To be fair, no one really cared either - at the end of the day, most "prejudices" and "judgement" is all in your own head. I just need to remember that. Moderation is key.


WISH ME LUCK IN RIGA!

---

Today's menu, last of my 'counting' days for a while.

5th July. Sunday.


Breakfast: Plain omelette (with dill), served with garlic mushrooms, freshly sliced tomato and crunchy salad. ~155

Lunch: Prawn, cabbage and baby sweet corn Soy stir-fry. Served in cabbage leaves, with a side of salad and turnip slices. ~210

Dinner: Chicken Stir-fry. ~300

Dessert: Blackcurrant S/F Jelly with grapes and apple slices. 0% yoghurt pot drizzled on top. ~195

Snacks throughout the day: Calcium & Vitamin Chews (30), Milk in Coffee (30), S/F sweets (20), Apple (80) ~ 160

Totals: 1020

__________________

Sean(JSF)

Good to hear from you Min, and have a FANTASTIC time in Riga. No stress, no worries, just fun

__________________
Abstinence
Week 1 -14lbs Week 2 -8lbs Week 3 -6lbs Week 4 -6lbs Week 5 -5 lbs Week 6 -7lbs Week 7 -5lbs Week 8 -5lbs Week 9 -4lbs Week 10 -6lbs Week 11 -7lbs Week 12 -1lb Week 13 -6lbs Week 14 -5lbs Week 15 -8lbs Total Abstinence loss 93lbs

RTM
Week 1 - 4lb Week 2 - 3lb Week 3 - 5lb Week 4 - away Week 5 - 3lb Week 6 - 4lb Week 7 - STS Week 8 - 4lb Week 9 - STS Week 10 - away Week 11 - 3lb Total RTM loss 26lbs

Sean's RTM Blog

thin_inside

Min

I love your posts as they are so thought provoking. Your 'monsters' approach is perfect for me to use. I know I have the same monsters and what a great way to be able to deal with each directly. Thank you so much.

Enjoy your counting-free holiday! xx

__________________
'History is for reference, not for reliving.'







Foundation + Developers: Lost 132lb
5 months on : gained 56lbs back
Refocusing: May 2010

daisydoll

hi there
your monsters are my monsters too - at least you are not alone!
Have a fab time in Riga - look forward to hearing about it when you get back
daisy x

__________________







FIRST TIME : JAN 2009
week 1: -8 week 8: -3
week 2: -4 week 9: -4
week 3: -3 week 10: -3
week 4: -2 week 11: -2
week 5: -3 week 12: -3
week 6: -2 week 13: -2
week 7: STS week 14: -3
Total 42lbs (3 stone)
Developers: 8 weeks lost 17lbs by end
RTM: lost 6lbs - gained 7lbs. Finished Sept 7th 2009 at 8.13


RESTART 16th August 2011
Week 1: -9 Week 2: -4 Week 3: -1 Week 4: -3 Week 5: -2.5 week 6: -2 week7:-2 Week 8: -2

Minerva

So I’m back! Wonderful holiday, saw lots of culture in Latvia: I would advise anyone who enjoys wondering around a beautiful city to go there and explore! It also has an absolutely stunning and almost deserted beach for those who love the seaside. I’m not a particular fan of lounging around so, I enjoyed the sights and walked around lots.
The first few days were fine food-wise, I didn’t eat too much, and generally I allowed myself the things that I was avoiding: like the carbs, the breads etc, because my choices were pretty limited in the ‘healthy’ department… but then. After a few days, something happened. And I stopped looking. I started bingeing on cake, on sweet things, on white fluffy bread. Looking back on it, I understand EXACTLY why. Sugar is evil! If you can avoid sugar: I would advise you to do so. I KNEW there was a reason that I buy diabetic sweets back at home! PERFECT example of this right here. Sugar induces hunger and it’s not a normal hunger. It’s a greedy, binge inducing one. I was so bloated, my stomach was HURTING because it was at bursting point, yet I still had to cram a piece of cake in, a cookie, a sweetie. But I actively chose to do so as well. The normal rational brain was muted by this sugar demon.



I would sometimes wonder when I eat a sugar-free sweet: “Calorie wise it’s about the same as a “normal” one, so why can’t I have one normal one?” … the reason being is that the sugar-sweet WILL cause a chemical and physiological change within, one that we are not entirely aware of – and can promote over-eating, more hunger pangs – whereas the sugar-free sweet, relieves the ‘sweet-tooth’ craving and leaves a nice satisfied feeling. …at least for me. Now don’t get me wrong – the occasional sugar treat is ok. It takes a day or two of such sugar-eating for it to build up enough to be problematic. A sweet, or a cake maybe once every once in a while is fine and won’t do any damage. …just when it becomes habitual, every-day thing is when it’s bad.

So, I say it here! I gained about 9 lbs, but I’m still below “target” of 10st (I updated my ticker with new figures - arggh!). I know some of it is glycogen/water weight, so I’m not actually panicking. What’s done is done, I enjoyed the excesses in some way, but – actually… I didn’t. While I was stuffing my face as much as possible in PAIN from a stretched stomach I was longing for the emptiness and the normality that I had back at home. I longed to FEEL hungry. I was so bloated all the time, I went to sleep and couldn’t sleep very well because I was just feeling like a balloon.
Rationally – I came back home, and now am on the second day of normal eating – as I was before. Counting calories, but it is a little bit hard to re-adjust the portion sizes since my stomach may have stretched out a little. Plus the sugar and carbohydrate withdrawal are hitting me quite hard – but I know once I make it past the weekend I’ll be ok again. I am putting my BRAIN back in action, and whipping the stomach back into submission! It’s going to take a little while – but I honestly never want to feel like I did on holiday again. It was disgusting. I was almost punishing myself the whole time with the excess – I was in pain yet I was doing it to myself – saying – “this pain will be over soon, I can stop the torture. When I come home everything will be ok again.” … I guess in some way, food is a negative thing for me these days. I do enjoy it, but at the same time it makes a prison for me. I think about it all the time, and feel the NEED to EAT ALL THE TIME – but I can’t because I know if I do too much it will become a punishment cycle and physically I can’t handle it. It’s real pain and discomfort.

Though on the positive side – I have not gone into a “guilt” cycle. Seems I DID learn something positive from Lighter Life after all. I am not “throwing in the towel” so to speak because of an excessive holiday! I am not giving in to anything just because I put on a few pounds – in a way, the way I eat : lots of vegetables, protein, salad has become so natural to me now. It doesn’t feel like a diet at all! It’s funny how people go away on holiday – and feel like they’ve over-eaten and then can’t get back on the ‘diet train’ again when they get back. … seems to me like the easiest thing in the world, in fact, I feel like I fell off my REAL train when I went away and ate too much cake! I’m glad I am back to normal now, with my greens, beans, prawns and fruit, food that I feel comfortable with.

I came home, and tried on a pair of “control” trousers too. I may FEEL like I’ve gained about 3 stone, but realistically I know I’ve only gained a few pounds. The trousers that fit fine before I went away, still fit just fine now. Albeit with a bit more of a “muffin-top” than before! But not to the point that I can’t wear them. So, I’m doing fine. With a week or two of being a little bit more restrictive as I was before I went away I’ll lose the ‘holiday baggage’ and then start re-introducing some potatoes and bread into my diet for a more balanced long-term lifestyle.

But for now I must get through these few difficult days of the withdrawal effects! I am chewing gum, drinking lots of coffee and flavoured water to combat the hunger pangs! Lol. Wish me luck.

__________________

Sean(JSF)

Good luck Min - but I have confidence you really don't need luck

Holidays are meant to be enjoyed and naturally involves excess for many of us. Whilst unpleasant, the 'pain' will have been good for you and prevented too much damage and wanting to continue the overeating when you got home.

The Key as you know is moving on with healthy habits. Isn't that what 'normally thin' people do week in, week out?

Glad you enjoyed Riga, and really good to have you back on Minims.

__________________
Abstinence
Week 1 -14lbs Week 2 -8lbs Week 3 -6lbs Week 4 -6lbs Week 5 -5 lbs Week 6 -7lbs Week 7 -5lbs Week 8 -5lbs Week 9 -4lbs Week 10 -6lbs Week 11 -7lbs Week 12 -1lb Week 13 -6lbs Week 14 -5lbs Week 15 -8lbs Total Abstinence loss 93lbs

RTM
Week 1 - 4lb Week 2 - 3lb Week 3 - 5lb Week 4 - away Week 5 - 3lb Week 6 - 4lb Week 7 - STS Week 8 - 4lb Week 9 - STS Week 10 - away Week 11 - 3lb Total RTM loss 26lbs

Sean's RTM Blog

daisydoll

hey there!
i have missed you - needed a good talking to min-styleeee a couple of times, but sean and t_i stepped in and i'm back on track!

glad you had a good time - sounds like you are well on the way to being back on track which is great

- after all 'normal' people indulge on holidays, which is fine - its what you do after that is the important thing and you are doing it.

daisy x

__________________







FIRST TIME : JAN 2009
week 1: -8 week 8: -3
week 2: -4 week 9: -4
week 3: -3 week 10: -3
week 4: -2 week 11: -2
week 5: -3 week 12: -3
week 6: -2 week 13: -2
week 7: STS week 14: -3
Total 42lbs (3 stone)
Developers: 8 weeks lost 17lbs by end
RTM: lost 6lbs - gained 7lbs. Finished Sept 7th 2009 at 8.13


RESTART 16th August 2011
Week 1: -9 Week 2: -4 Week 3: -1 Week 4: -3 Week 5: -2.5 week 6: -2 week7:-2 Week 8: -2

Minerva

Hmmm... I guess I've been very quiet this past week! However I bring good results.
Of the 9lbs that I gained, I have already lost 6 of them. Going back and calorie counting hasn't been difficult at all... Of course there *was* and still *is* a part of me that is telling me "You don't need this anymore!", but I set myself a goal, to get to my pre-holiday weight of 9st 1lbs, and I want to get back there. Then I'll relax a little.
Of course though, now I do realise that I didn't necessarily gain FAT at all. It is IMPOSSIBLE to gain 9lbs of fat in a week. It just doesn't work that way. If I can lose it nearly as quickly as I have gained it, surely that tells me that it's just water and glycogen. Yet, I did blow up like a baloon - I did feel a noticable change in my body. The slightly tighter clothes, a bigger pot belly. -- I guess this is where a lot of people fall down. This particular bit when they 'feel' the change.

I think I've kind of figured it out... There's not just ONE glycogen/energy storage system. There are SEVERAL. It makes perfect sense. We can't gain or lose FAT on a daily or even a weekly basis. It all sort of works on an average - and fat storage happens on a more long-term basis.

This is how I like to think about it logically:
* The primary glycogen stores - are the ones we use daily. The things we eat on that day, the energy we expend on that day.
* Then there is the secondary glycogen store. The one that stores any excess of; or gives to the primary store. This is a large 'cupboard' if you will - the one that can hold lots of energy. However: Once it starts over-flowing with any excess from the primary (i.e. we consume a few more calories per day than we expend) - it starts to store all this as a much more long term energy source - fat (but it would still take quite a while for 1lbs of fat to add up since it counts as 3'500 calories..).

So all I really truly gained on holiday, even while pigging out on cake, alcohol and fatty foods - was the refilling of the secondary glycogen stores. And they do expand! 7lbs of 'water' isn't just going to be invisible! However just as fast as they come on, they go off again. After consuming an average of 1000 cal per day for a week, they have significantly depleted and my belly has deflated.

Quite interesting I think to be honest. This is yet another point of this 'dieting' thing that I can further make sense of. ... And it also definitely helps to know the 'average theory' also!
The fact is: we can never gain on a daily basis. Even on a weekly basis. It all averages out in the end, and it doesn't so much matter if I consume 3000 calories in one day: as long as I average out roughly my 'normal' daily intake let's say in a week period, on a month period. It's all about averages. You can always make up for an excess, and compensate. Never give up, because an extra slice of cake: is never the end of a healthy and more active lifestyle.

__________________

Anders

Apparently, the liver actually expands when it stores extra glycogen which is what makes your belt/waistband/whatever feel tight when you've processed a large meal - as you say it isn't fat, which needs consistent over-eating to get laid down. Lay off the carbs for a few days and the extra glycogen gets used up and you'll be back to normal weight in a few days..

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