Thread: New to VLCD - Have some questions :)

Hi all,

I've been doing calorie counting the last two weeks and now have a few questions about VLCD which I'm hoping you can help with

First, how does VLCD work in terms of not putting the weight back on afterwards? My understanding was that if you eat very low calories, your body goes into starvation mode and learns to use all the food you're giving it...so when you start eating normally again, it will put on weight fast. I'm guessing that because a VLCD has all the nutrition needed by the body (because it's all medically worked out and approved), then the body doesn't think it's starving, so this doesn't happen. Is that how it works? I wouldn't want to put all that effort in just to gain the weight back!

Second question is: I don't think I could (or would want to) stick to a VLCD for more than a few weeks. I love my food too much. Would VLCD be suitable to do, say for, 3 weeks (as an example) to knock the last bit of weight off to get to one of my mini-goals. Then go back to my 1000-1400 calorie counting per day...then a couple of months later, do the same thing?

Last question for the moment is about recommendations. I live in Australia so need something available here. I just did a google search on slim and save and that appears to be about $60 for a whole week's worth of food. Is that about normal? What other ones should I check out that are available in Australia, and which are the best in terms of cost, effectiveness, tastiness...etc?

Thank you very much folks,
Lightning.

Hello! I'll do my best to answer. Question 1- I can't help with I'm afraid. I made the decision, at 15st which is 7st more than I should be, that losing the weight and getting healthy was more important than doing it slowely. I'm at risk of diabetes, my PCOS symptoms are horrendous, I can't run round with the kids as much as I would like to. My own plan is to go onto Rosemary Conley or another low-GI plan when I get to goal as it helped me get from 17st to where I am now.

Depending on the VLCD, you can get food. I'm on Slim and Save, I have shakes, bars, soups, porridge and meals. Which are small portions but they are a hot meal! Cottage pie, chilli or spag bol. Very nice, I'd eat them out of the diet. I honestly don't know if doing 3 weeks is a good idea, I personally have so much to lose I'm hoping to stick 100% (ish) till goal. It's only 100%ish because I sometimes use alternative products such as Tesco bars which are nutritionally the same as the S+S bars. I do know that on the sheet you get with the order it says you can use the products as a low-fat,carb etc meal replacement with your regular food eg a normal breakfast, lunch, then a S+S meal for tea. It wouldn't put you in ketosis but would reduce your cal intake and have all the nutrition you need from your replaced meal.

Question 3- well I'm on Slim and Save so I would say it's the best! I think for this one it may be good checking what is available to you such as Cambridge diet, Exante etc then posting in the appropriete board here. I love the S+S plan, done a week now and barely repeated meals as there is so much choice. I would recommend, if possible, getting a sample pack from S+S. You can try a few things and see if it's right for you. I did that and now have 5 weeks of packs to get through! Check out the S+S UK site and compare prices, depending on your plan it depends how much you pay. I'm on 4 a day so pay more than those on 3 a day. I don't tend to have the veg allowance so save a bit of money that way!

Pop over to the S+S forum, we're a friendly bunch and there are plenty of people on there who have been doing this longer than me or have done other VLCDs. Hope this helps!

Whether losing weight quickly or slowly it is always difficult not to put the weight back on afterwards - there is no statistical difference in the proportion of people who keep the weight off. I think the key is exercise at the end because it builds muscle and the more muscle you have the higher your motabolism and the more calories you need.

It is hard to get into ketosis and can take 5/6 days. During that time you could feel very hungry and have headaches from carb withdrawal. I wouldn't want to go through that regularly. Aft you're in ketosis you wouldn't feel hungry and you burn fat quickly so people tend to want to stay there! On some VLCDs you can have meals (such as spagetti bolonaise and chilli) which are very tasty - although small. If you were mixing with another diet then I think it would be ok if it were Atkins as you are in ketosis for that anyway.

Keeping the weight off after following a VLCD is the same as keeping the weight off after following any diet.
You need to maintain and not eat badly like before.

I wouldn't recommend doing a vlcd for just 3 weeks, they are designed for people with a fair bit of weight to lose and to stay on for at least 3 months.
The first weeks loss would mostly be water weight anyway, then you'd have 2 weeks of losses but then you'd start eating again and gain your water weight back when you re-feed. Re-feeding takes weeks of having packs and slowly introducing food again.
So doing the diet for 3 weeks and then having to re-feed for about 6-8 weeks seems pretty pointless.

You'd be best off sticking to a low carb diet.
Or sticking to a vlcd for your whole journey.

Thank you very much, MiniMoosh, weasey and BlueButterfly! You've given me some good info to go on and some VLCD to research. I didn't realise that VLCD actually puts the body into a different state...I had no idea what ketosis was! So now I'm reading up on that and checking out VLCD options also.

BlueButterfly...when you say the first week would be water loss, then two weeks of losses...then you start to 're-feed'...that sounds like I'm not eating anything for weeks 1-3 and then I start eating again...is that right? Does that mean I'm literally eating nothing, or do I have the prescribed shakes etc for 3 weeks, and then after that I have shakes plus normal food...or something else?

I've experienced headaches from carb withdrawl from days when I just haven't eaten much until dinner. Not nice! Interesting to know they go away after around a week.

youd have your packs and nothing else no 'real' food

Like BB said these diets arent meant for a few weeks at a time, its just not worth it

I don't think anyone would recommend not eating at all! On a VLCD you have the packs, 3 or 4 a day depending on your plan (or 2 for men on Lipotrim, I believe). Some have extra things- on Slim and Save, for example, you can have 200g a day of veg from a list they provide, and if doing 3 a day you can have plain grilled chicken or fish as well.

Re-feeding in the process of going from living on the packs every day to starting eating a normal diet. It needs to be slow to avoid putting everything back on! There are various plans, each VLCD has different ways of doing it. For example you may start off having a pack for breakfast, one for lunch then a low fat, low carb meal for tea. Gradually adding snacks etc... a long process, really. I can't imagine doing that every few weeks!

Thanks, MiniMoosh.

Got a couple more questions...want to know all I can before I decide to do this so I know what I am in for

Q1. How quickly would you guess I'd lose weight and reach my goal if I stuck to VLCD between now and when I reached the goal weight? (Now that I understand I would need to stick to it the whole time, there's not much point otherwise!)

My current weight: 78kg / 172lbs
Current BMI: 29.5

Goal weight: 50kg / 110lbs
Goal BMI: 18.9

Weight to Lose: 28kg / 62lbs
BMI To 'lose': 10.6

My current weight-loss is occuring at 0.75kg / 1.65lbs per week; at this rate it will take me approx 38 weeks to reach my goal, which means I'd reach it around mid-October. The reason for me doing a VLCD would be the result of reaching the goal much, much faster (because, as I can see, the rest of the aspects of a VLCD aren't that nice...looks like it would cost more and be more unpleasant experience). So I would want the time that it saves me to be worth the rest of the hassle. How quick would I likely lose the weight on a VLCD (weight-loss per week, and how long until I reach the goal), and what is the calorie count of most of them (on average?).

Last question for now: I understand from what's been said that the first week of a VLCD is quite unpleasant as the body goes through carb withdrawl. I reckon I can hack that for a week, if I know it gets better after. What do you feel like after week 1? Are you stil tired, hungry etc a lot of the time...or do you go back to feeling normal and good and energised, just with less of a 'full' feeling? Being physically miserable for a week I can do...but not for months on end!

Thanks all for your help and support Seriously considering this option...

Lightning.

After week 1 I rarely feel hungry - ketosis supresses your appetite. Also, after a few weeks I found that my energy level was much higher than before and it has stayed that way throughout. The VLCD I am doing is just under 600 calories a day.

Normally I would expect someone to lose an average of a stone a month (14 pounds) I have lost 6.5 stone in 25 weeks. however, I started with a much higher BMI than you so I don't know how much that would affect the rate of weight loss - but a stone a month is the commonly mentioned amount. Given that you could be done in 5 months. However, I'm a little worried about your planned end BMI - is that a healthy BMI? In the UK we have two different bodies which define the limits on BMI, one would say that was just in the heathy range but the other would say that it is in the underweight range.

One of the most important things on a VLCD is to drink enough water. It has all sorts of good affects but in addition there seems to be a direct correlation between drinking more water on a VLCD and losing more weight. Spread it throughout the day though as it is dangerous to drink a lot of water in a short time frame.

Good luck on your journey whatever route you decide!

You also asked about putting weight back on. My understanding is that you need to carefully follow whatever the system you use recommends. Thereafter, you need to have a new normal. That will probably mean continuing to monitor and plan what you will eat for a long time. More vegetables and salad, and excluding processed foods.

Until you have done a couple of years at your goal weight you at high risk of being in the 60%+ who do not make those changes and get fat again.

The people on Alizonne who seem to be long term successful once at goal weight lower intake for 2 or 3 days before a special meal or event when they know they will splurge. They also drink much less as alcohol is empty calories.

If carb affect you so strongly, maybe you could consider eating lower carb when you get to goal. Paleo eating is now main stream in Scandinavia.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Ali

There's some good advice for you on here already Lightning, so just to add, the first week isn't always horrible. Some people seem to exhibit flu like symptoms and have a tough few days, but for others it is simply feeling a bit hungry but otherwise coping well. I didn't have serious issues at all in the first week-the carb withdrawal stage. The worst side effect for me was feeling a bit light-headed, easily sorted with a meal replacement bar and more water. It isn't always a tough start for everyone. Good luck with whatever plan you decide on!

I would reiterate what everyone has said on here. A VLCD isn't for someone wanting a quick fix in a month, it's a long term commitment to shift substantial amounts of weight, and the effort it takes to get into ketosis isn't worth it for a couple of weeks, plus the refeeding issue, and it's important to do this properly otherwise you will just be wasting your time and heading towards regaining the weight again.

I would worry about following a VLCD below a certain BMI. You're ok to start this as your BMI is at the top end of overweight but your goal weight is very low, and bordering on the underweight category. I don't believe that anyone would recommend following a VLCD with a BMI under 20. I'm no expert but I believe you should start off on the VLCD and then use one of the step up plans once you get within the healthy BMI range, so something like the packs plus the allowed foods on Lighterlife + or Cambridge 810 or higher.

I know nothing about it but I think they sell Optislim in Aus and that claims to be a VLCD so it might be worth looking into. Good luck, whatever you decide.

Thank you very much, all. I'll reconsider my goal weight then...I can stop and re-evaluate when I got down to 60kg. I like the idea of doing a VLCD to get me into the healthy BMI range, and then go back to something like calorie counting (after a gradual re-feed) to get me to the middle of the healthy range. Thank you all.

I walked around a few different pharmacists today for my research. The first one was very helpful and showed me the Optifast range. That was the only one they had which was a total meal replacement. The others just seemed to suppliment calorie counting by replacing one or two meals with a low calorie shake. well, I'm doing calorie counting anyway and can make healthy, tasty low calorie meals - so why would I want a shake instead?

The second pharmacist only had one diet they offered, which again seemed to be some version of calorie counting. It had some shakes, plus a full meal (veggies and protein) at night plus all these snacks. Plus they wanted me to go in and weigh myself regularly and pay some sort of fee. No thanks, I have scales at home and plenty of support on this forum for free

The third pharmacist also carried a few different products. Optifast was again the only total meal replacement they offered. Then the pharmacist told me they don't recommend total meal replacement diets. Why were they selling one, then?

Anyway, Optifast is the only one I've found so far that seems to be what I want - a full VLCD with all the nutrition etc. I've talked to the guys at slim and save and while they are lovely, it will cost me an extra £50 (about $100AUD) to get their products shipped to Australia.

So unless I find something else stocked locally (or that will ship for free), it will be Optifast

Just check that Optifast is a diet that will put you in ketosis as I cannot imagine doing a VLCD without ketosis. The reason I say that is that they do Optislim in the UK but I think it's one of those diets where you have 2 packs and a meal.