Alcohol...

Discussion in 'Cambridge Weight Plan' started by doctorbeat, 2 October 2007 Social URL.

  1. doctorbeat

    doctorbeat Member

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    Hi everyone, Pippa's bf James here (I finally got an account instead of hijacking hers :D)


    I decided to do the Cambridge diet for 13 days. The reason? well, I started on sunday, I will miss one weekend, then I will stop on the following friday so I can go out on the saturday.

    The problem is with alcohol. I am not an alcoholic (I haven't craved beer at all!) but I do like to go to the pub with my friends to put the world to rights.
    Now I am settled into ketosis, I feel absolutely fine. I'm not really a 'recreational' eater, and being on this diet isn't bothering me at all now I have got past the first two days.
    The problem is that until I stop doing the diet, I can't engage in my usual social activity, so really it's not the discomfort of dieting that is the problem, but the social repercussions of adhering to it.
    It seems like a real shame, but there's no real way around it (please don't suggest that I sit in the pub and drink water...)

    Luckily I'm not terribly overweight, and if I lose a stone I'd be over the moon (in fact I'm only 18lb over my ideal BMI) but it's such a shame that beer would knock me out of ketosis :cry:

    I was thinking that if I did the CD for a fortnight every year just to knock off a few pounds so I don't gradually get obese, would that work?
     
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  3. SHAZA

    SHAZA Silver Member

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    Hi James

    (nice that you are a real member now and not lurking behind girlf tee hee)

    I think its a super idea to stick to cambridge when you can and still keep "your life". Whatever plan or however you need to stick to is ideal for you and adjust it to suit yourself. You are not that overweight and by sticking to SS for two weeks at a time you are bound to eventually hit your target. Who says that you have to loose the weight that quick ~ you didnot gain it that quick did you James ?

    I dont suppose many of the CD purist would agree with me but GO FOR IT and please have a little gin and tonic for a very fat old bird with still a long long way to go !!!!

    Good luck and keep supporting each other on this crazy diet !!!
     
  4. canireallydothis!!

    canireallydothis!! Gold Member

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    Being brutally hones James, I think the answer is no, it wouldnt work. Can you imagine going through the bit where you get in to Ketosis time and time again??? Ask any SSer that has stopped and started again, including me, and the first time is golden.

    Not only that, CD is a diet that needs to be worked through the stages, you need to SS, 790, 1000, then 1200 etc, this reintroduces food into your body at a level where you wont crave foods and in the right order so you wont put on weight.

    Whilst SSing you are only having a few grams of carbs per day, any alcohol has a ton of carbs, this means that as soon as you start drinking you will put on weight at a fast rate until you re fill your carb store.

    If you are doing CD, spending all that money, the the key is to do it right, trust me, Ive been there x
     
  5. Russiandoll

    Russiandoll Carpe diem

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    You would probably lose about a stone in that fortnight ... of which half a stone would probably be glycogen.

    After SSing for just a fortnight and then returning to the world of carbs, your glycogen would slap straight back on. So after two weeks of abstinence once a year, you'd most probably see a 7lb difference. Is it really worth it?

    You could lose that in a month eating sensibly.
     
  6. doctorbeat

    doctorbeat Member

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    Hmm, well this is the second time I have been in ketosis (I tried atkins a few years ago) and I don't think I'd mind doing it once a year. It seems to happen pretty quick for me and it's only two days after all...

    I'm sure I read on the Cambridge website about putting the weight back on and it said something like 'if it took you a year to become 10lb overweight, it will take another year to put it back on' or something along those lines.
    It's taken at least five years for me to put on a stone, so I didn't think it would be a problem.

    I'd be perfectly happy to put the stone back on over the period of a year then lose it again.

    Are you saying that if I (for instance) lose a stone and then go back to my usual self, I'll suddenly put it all back on in a short time?
     
  7. doctorbeat

    doctorbeat Member

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    Ah, I see. Well actually that's pretty much ok :D
    I have been putting on well under 7lb a year, which according to a TV programme I saw recently is about 1/2 a chocolate biscuit a day.

    I'd rather get 1/2 a stone a year lighter by doing Cambridge for a fortnight than mess around watching what I eat constantly.

    Maybe if I was more overweight, I'd be more willing to make changes to my whole lifestyle, but to be honest, I'm mainly doing it so that Pippa doesn't have to do it on her own.
    I love her just the way she is, but if she thinks she's bigger than she wants to be and it's making her miserable then I want to help her.
     
  8. dyingtobeslim

    dyingtobeslim Full Member

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    Sounds like you don't "really" want to lose your 18lbs, whether it's 18lbs, 20, 50 or 100 you're still overweight and should really just go for it!! You only have to stop alcohol for a few weeks to lose that weight. You could end up heavier in a years time - you're lucky you "only" have 18lbs to lose.....(Sorry if I'm not sounding too supportive) taking your body in and out of ketosis can't be a good thing. Cambridge works and should be given more respect!!! You might as well go to Boots and buy slimfast!

    Good luck whatever you decide....
     
  9. doctorbeat

    doctorbeat Member

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    Hmm. According to this site:

    Bodybuilding.com - Derek Beast Charlebois - Carbohydrate Metabolism!

    the body stores around 300g of glycogen in the muscles and 100g in the liver give or take.

    A quick conversion to imperial gives 14.1 oz, or 0.88lb for 400g of glycogen.

    Unless there's something very wrong with me, I doubt I have 7lb of stored glycogen.

    Plus, if I understand correctly, ketosis begins when stored glycogen is depleted, so surely any weight loss due to loss of glycogen (and associated water loss) should happen as the body switches over into ketosis, ie. around 48 hours?

    I definitely haven't lost 7lbs in the last two days...
     
  10. JustJo

    JustJo Cambridge Counsellor

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    I can totally see where you're coming from, doctorbeat. Like you say, if you had a lot to lose then it'd be different, but blokes manage to drop 18lbs in no time! My 'unofficial' advice (I wouldn't advise my clients to drink, naturally) would be to just try and stick to low-carb on these occasions. Eat a low-carb meal before you go out (best not to drink without eating, as you'll get hammered!), then swap your beer for a spirit with a diet mixer.

    I've done both Atkins and Cambridge for some time, so I know all the 'tricks', I guess (not necessarily always good to know!) You won't come out of ketosis if you dtink low-carb. To be honest, even beer in moderation isn't that high in carbs.

    Going in and out of ketosis is not going to do any harm, so long as you can cope with it, so I see nothing wrong with your 'plan'.


    Jo x
     
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  11. KD

    KD Gone fishing

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    Hi James. It could take longer to get into ketosis on Cambridge (compared to Atkins for example) as there are more carbs in the shakes than would be if you were doing another sort of low carb diet.

    Yes, I doubt you have 7lbs of glycogen, but remember that glycogen is like a sponge and holds about 4 times it's weight in water, so they'll be a marked water weight loss.

    Regardless of what it is you lose in that first week, it does seem to go on very quick again.:eek:

    The Cambridge diet is really a diet that needs loads of commitment. No alcohol, following the plans (6-8weeks) at the end. It may well not be the plan for you. It's not for everyone :)

    Have you considered doing something like the JUDDD diet. You could use Cambridge every other day, and eat normally/pub on the other days.

    There's a JUDDD forum on here. Not many people on it, but I'm sure you'll get some great advice from those who have used it.

    Just an idea.
     
  12. doctorbeat

    doctorbeat Member

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    Well I did consider no carb drinks until I read the terrifying sticky about alcohol on this forum :eek:
    I'm going to read a bit more about JUDDD, sounds interesting.

    My two friends do a bit of a weird diet. They eat what they like on saturdays, but for the rest of the week they eat food with practically no carbs, like chicken salad.
    I guess this means that they probably go into and out of ketosis every week, which can't be much fun, but they are both very lean.

    Thinking about the subject of my post, maybe I will be so satisfied with my weight loss when I see the results that I become more motivated as time goes on? It's quite possible that I might see the sense in continuing for an additional fortnight or so.

    If I don't, then at least I will have lost some weight, and (perhaps more importantly) given Pippa a 'leg up' in achieving her target weight.


    I'll tell you what, I'm really not enjoying the bad breath part. I'm breathing out enough acetone to strip Pat Butcher's nail varnish from 30 feet!
     
  13. pippa

    pippa Full Member

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    are you calling me fat, james? i dunno....men eh? never know when to stop talking about a womans weight........x
     
  14. dyingtobeslim

    dyingtobeslim Full Member

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    Hi James
    I would like to apologise if the "tone" of my message seemed harsh, it was honestly not meant to sound that way. Someone has pm'd me saying it was HARSH especially as I'd written it in BRIGHT PINK, I apologise, I also ALWAYS write my messages in bright pink - as it's my favourite colour and October is PINK month.

    I was only meaning to say, don't let the 18lbs become more, don't take your body in and out of ketosis and end up making yourself ill. Whatever you do James, you will feel great when you've lost the weight.

    Plus MEN always lose weight faster than women which is so unfair. Have a good day Doctor Beat:)
     
  15. JustJo

    JustJo Cambridge Counsellor

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    That sounds fairly similar to the way I maintain my weight. I'm ridiculously disciplined during the week, and keep my diet low-carb where possible (stops me wanting to binge!), but pretty much do what I like over the weekend. It's not difficult going in and out of ketosis that way, as I am still eating, so it's not as hard as when you're on sole source.


    Jo x
     
  16. SteveM

    SteveM Silver Member

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    James - as a bloke, and from experience, I reckon that you can pretty much rule out the weight loss from the first week in the overall scheme of the weight loss. I say this because after I had lost my weight and went through the stages of re-introducing food, I eventually regained just about what I had lost in the first week (less a pound or so) before I stabilised. I have talked to a few friends of mine (all blokes, as the ladies may see different) who have done CD or LL, and they all say the same - as their glycogen stores fill up again, they have all pretty much put on about the same as their weight-losses in the first week. Admittedly we all seem to be some of the lower losses for the first week (between 6 and 8lbs). I cannot imagine that someone losing, say, 18lbs in the first week would put all that back again!

    All I am trying to say is that the weight loss in the first week is misleading, and I would ignore it if I were you. If you are aiming to lose 18lbs, then start counting from the 2nd week when you are in ketosis and truly in fat-burning mode. At that point you are truly in weight-loss mode (real weight-loss), and not just glycogen and water, most of which will come back.
     
  17. Mrs V

    Mrs V Loves Life!

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    I know that you said that you didnt want to hear the suggestion of drinking water all night, but for me it really does work!
    I am quite happy to socialise with my mates with a pint of soda water, rather than not be going out at all.
     
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  19. doctorbeat

    doctorbeat Member

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    Ok, well I didn't think that anyway but thanks for clearing it up :)

    As to the weight loss in the first week, I think that's probably right. Each gram of glycogen also retains 2.7g of water (I don't know where the 4x thing came from) so on average that would be around 3lb that is lost due to glycogen, and maybe more from general water retention.
    It's possible that the extra weight put on after coming off the diet is due to 'carbohydrate loading', which is a technique used by body builders and athletes to force their muscles to store more glycogen. What they do is pretty much the same thing- deplete all of their glycogen then eat loads of carbs just before the event.

    This effect would be temporary and glycogen levels would go back to normal afterwards, so it's hard to work out how much would be lost, gained and then lost again until the system settled down!

    The short version is that it's probably safe to assume that at least half, if not all, weight lost in the first week is probably not going to stay off :(

    We'll just have to see what happens. If I'm perfectly honest, I'm finding this a lot easier than I had expected, so I'm just taking it day by day.
    If I promised myself that I'd stop after, say, a month, there's no way I'd stick to it. Conversely, if I do it day by day, I am finding that it's easy to say 'well I won't eat today but I might tomorrow'.
    I'm just going to see how long I can keep it up :D

    On another subject, don't tell her but I'm very proud of Pippa. She felt really rough yesterday but she's stuck to her guns.
    Having tried this diet, I'm truly impressed with all you folks that have lost so much weight.
    The problem isn't really sticking to the diet, but changing your whole outlook on life to suit, and it takes a pretty special brand of tenacity and willpower to do that!
    If I manage to stick with it for even my planned 3 days, even if the weight loss isn't spectacular, I'll have still learned something valuable about myself.
     
  20. doctorbeat

    doctorbeat Member

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    Um, that should have been '13 days', not '3 days'....
     
  21. dyingtobeslim

    dyingtobeslim Full Member

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    Hey Doctor Beat, yes I agree that taking it one day at a time seems to work for me too. Everytime I have re-started I start working out what weight I'll be in one month two months etc... then crash by day four, last time I crashed on day two. So, I re-started on Monday and like you, keep telling myself If I feel hungry I'll eat tomorrow, so far so good, on day 3 and feeling okay. I run 3 times a week, and must admit that after a run I feel fantastic.....drinking black de-caf coffee has really made a difference, it means I drink coffee and water until around 2pm when I have my first shake, by then would have drunk 2 litres water, I drink 1 litre after my run, then the last litre between 7pm and 10pm.(total 4lites) although I have to drink from the bottle - weird if I tried to drink 4 litres from a glass - I would not be able to

    So, good luck Dr Beat, keep praising Pippa she's doing well too:)
     
  22. Stacie86

    Stacie86 Cambridge Diet Counsellor

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    Hey James

    You're not supposed to, but the best drink to have would be vodka and diet coke as they say you can have this on the atkins and it won't bring you our of ketosis, although some people can only get away with coke zero, so be careful there!

    Take Care

    Stacie
     
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