Ketosis - Worth the risk?

Discussion in 'General Weight Loss Discussion' started by cherry15, 31 October 2008 Social URL.

  1. cherry15

    cherry15 Guest

    Many who have been on Atkins (low carb) or a Vlcd, will know this term (state) well. Infact i have read many blogs and posts celebrating being in Ketosis. Alittle about ketosis.

    When the body is starved of glucose, the body turns to fats, so during prolonged fasting, most tissues use fatty acids as fuel, but some cannot. Brain cells in particular, cannot get their energy needs from fatty acids. They can however burn some of the intermediate breakdown products of fatty acids that the liver releases into the bloodstream when it burns fats. These molecules, called Ketone bodies become inportant during starvation, when they build up to sufficient levels in the blood for the brain to take them in and use them as an alternative energy source - a situation called Ketosis. Remeber that highly specialized cells of the brain prefer to run on glucose, the simplest fuel. but an important fact of human nutrition is that, although our bodies can easily turn glucose to fat, they cannot turn fat into glucose. This basic biochemical limitation has profound implications for proplr who are staving and for those who restrict or eliminate intake of carbohydrates. Physicians have noted that people experiencing ketosis, when the brain is denied a source of glucose and is forced to burn ketone bodies often report feelings of wellbeing and the absence of hunger. Dr Atkins and his imitators suggest that the same situation obtains on their low carbohydrates diets, that people following them go into ketosis and experience decreased hunger and increased mental and physical emergy as a result. It is not clear that this is the case, because the popular low carbohydrate diets are very high in protein, the body can make glucose from protein when it is deprived of its usual sources. During starvation the brains demand for glucose causes the body to sacrifice its own muscle tissue in order to support 'gluconeogenisis' (greek for 'creating glucose from stratch), so that weightloss weightloss thru starvation represents not only the metoabolism of stored fat but also loss of lean body mass. The possibility that this may happen on low carbohydrate diets is cause for concern, even if people on these diets are eating alot of protein, the absense of dietary carbohydrate may still encourage the body to turn to its own muscle tissue as a source of amino acids for gluconeogenesis to feed the brain.
    exerpt taken from book 'eating well for optimum health' by Dr Andrew Weil.

    Obviously not is known conclusively about the longterm affects of being in ketosis will have, but in future years as the trend for high protein and low/no carbs diets....... we will soon find out. I think more tests need to happen before people are told that something is very safe when it is not. Obviously i know this discussion will open manny views and possibly bad reaction but i dont think there has been anyone posting any threads which are concerned enough about this or raises any questions about ketosis, and many people are told it is SAFE when noone is really sure at all, not even experts? so before you all 'shoot me down' with words ask yourself one question........... Are you sure enough that Ketosis is completely safe???
     
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  3. flirty40greeneyes

    flirty40greeneyes Busy busy busy!!

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    Ketosis is another name for the "fat burning" process. When you start Cambridge Diet, during the first 2/3 days your body uses glucose (a simple sugar stored by the body as the complex carbohydrate glycogen), for its main energy requirements. Once the body has used up its stored carbohydrate, it then switches to its other energy source - unwanted fat. A ketogenic diet is very low in carbohydrate.
    The body's stored fat is broken down into little fatty acid molecules called ketones and these circulate taking energy to all the tissues in the body. Cambridge Diet has been carefully researched and formulated so that when used sole source it has just enough carbohydrate for immediate energy and none left over for storage and induces a mild ketosis. The smallest intake of additional carbohydrate can upset this fragile balance and cause carbohydrate to be stored along with water, causing a plateau.
    The mild ketosis is an intrinsic part of the design of the sole source programme because it has significant benefits - it is the key to the comfort for the dieter:
    · It reduces the feeling of hunger - removing the temptation to err!


    · It induces a sense of well-being with good energy levels
    Far from being harmful, ketosis is an important safety factor - the body gets all the energy it needs from the breakdown of its fats stores, thus protecting muscle tissue and vital organs


    · Ketones are the products produced by your body when it burns fat. Your body excretes these ketones in the urine and when you breathe out. This is the reason why you can get bad breath and nasty taste in your mouth when on sole source.
    The ketones circulate in the bloodstream. When they reach the brain they produce two really pleasant effects: you stop feeling hungry and gain a tremendous feeling of well-being. This helps you to stick to the diet.
    Cambridge Diet has been very carefully formulated to produce this mild, beneficial ketosis. This is possible because of the limited amount of carbohydrate in the diet. If you have any additional carbohydrate - an apple or a slice of bread - you could break the ketosis. You will feel hungry (and may start to eat) and the feeling of well-being will disappear. You may also deposit glycogen which retains water, leading to a plateau.
     
  4. cherry15

    cherry15 Guest

    but......... Are you completely sure.........that it is SAFE? I looked at the cambridge site and it does not say anywhere that they say its COMPLETELY AND MEDICALLY SAFE. thats what this thread is about. Its mainly asking the question whether it is safe or not, and if noone really knows, is it worth the risk?
     
  5. KD

    KD Gone fishing

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    Yes! Cambridge is probably the most researched diet in the world. It's safe as long as the guidelines are followed. It conforms with the N.I.C.E. guidelines, and has to conform strictly with protein, fat, carb intake.

    It puts you in a mild state of ketosis as opposed to a deep state which is considered 'safe'

    Is it very safe? Ummm. Is it very safe for me to go to work (probably not...well, not at St Chavs :D) Are all healthy foods very safe for everyone? Nope.

    Is going to the gym very safe? Can you guarantee you will not have an accident? Not suffer a heart attack? Probably not, but you have gym instructors to help you use the equipment to ensure it's as safe as possible.

    We have counsellors to do the same thing.
     
  6. icemoose

    icemoose The Diet Guy

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    Is it worth the risk? Mmmm!

    Ok before I started a VLCD I did a lot of research and looked at ketosis and the difference between that acidoketosis which can be dangerous.

    I spoke to my GP who confirmed that the ketosis a low carb diet uses is BDK (Benign Dietary Ketosis) and is in no way harmful.

    Therefore for me it was very much worth it.

    And remember it isn't just the risk of a diet, it is the risk of not doing a diet! When I was 25 stone I had massive health risks, far outweighing the risks of losing weight and therefore I am certain I made the right decision.

    As always on Mini's! If you are worried about any health issue then your best form of information is your GP, anybody posting on these forums (including any counsellors) are merely offering their opinions, if you are concerned then give your GP a call or NHS Direct.

    Have a good weekend

    Mike
     
  7. night-owl

    night-owl Gold Member

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    Very interesting. I am doing SS+ and tbh I have stopped testing for ketosis because I never seem to be there, and I still continue losing weight without it. Could the small amount of carbs in my 3 tablespoons of broccoli, cabbage or lettuce be enough to put me out of ketosis? And is mild ketosis really only for those who are SSing?

    There is such an obssession with getting into and staying in ketosis on the CD thread that anyone would think we were all on the Atkins Diet! To me, first and foremost, CD is a vlcd and MILD ketosis is just a side effect.
     
    Last edited: 31 October 2008
  8. cherry15

    cherry15 Guest

    ok ok, so it mild ketosis, but ketosis is something that happens when you are starving yourself and in a way on 600cals a day SS you arinfact doing that. Is it me that thinks (warning bells) on any diets that have FAQ on protential side effects.......... As long as cambridge HQ and counsellors tell you its safe then its safe I suppose it is...........
     
  9. night-owl

    night-owl Gold Member

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    Ketosis does not come from starvation -- believe me, you don't starve yourself on the Atkins Diet and that works on ketosis! It comes from omitting carbs. Carbs turn to sugar in your blood to give you energy. If there are no carbs in your system, you body has to burn fat for energy.
     
  10. flirty40greeneyes

    flirty40greeneyes Busy busy busy!!

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    So Cherry, are you doing Atkins or a VLCD?? Do YOU have specific worries?? If so then as Mike has said we advocate going to see your GP.
     
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  11. cherry15

    cherry15 Guest

    starving yourself from carbohydrates........ kestosis is a reaction of burning lean muscle to make glucose which the brain needs......... thats what I am concerned about...ketosis is what happens when you are starving........ to keep you alive. Your body does not know that its eating just protein and fats, it knows it doesnt have enough glucose to run your brain....... what concerns me isnt the people that stick to it for say 7 or 8 months get all the weight off and then eat healthily like KD and Icemoose but the countless people who are on and off low carb diets. lose weight put on weight lose weight again... cannot be good for them......
     
  12. cherry15

    cherry15 Guest

    No neither..... just think that not enough is known about ketosis and was supprised to read so many threads and posts about how fantastic being in ketosis is...... just thought it a good topic for discussion. The thing is.if someone is soooo worried about something that they need to talk to their GP........ warning bells again....its only a thought.
     
  13. DQ

    DQ Queen of the Damned

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    I think you'll find most people who are doing a VLCD have done quite a bit of research into the side effects, etc. They make their own choice - no one forces them into doing it. If they have worries, they can speak to their counsellor and/or their GP.

    Discussion is all very well - scaremongering is not.
     
  14. flirty40greeneyes

    flirty40greeneyes Busy busy busy!!

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    Well it is nice you are concerned - but I'm sure the majority have done like Mike, KD, Frances and myself did ... and researched on the internet, spoke to our GP's etc. My GP was the same as Mike's and reassured me that I would only go into mild ketosis. To do LL and sometimes CD, a GP is required to sign your medical form. LT is distributed via a chemist ... so I hardly think they are a danger as you seem to be implying.

    What type of diet is it that you do then??
     
  15. cherry15

    cherry15 Guest

    This is a discussion..... I am not scaremongering at all..... and upset if you think that this is what I am doing because I am not. The thread is well labelled and I have posted it on the general discussion. In any discussion there has to be for and against. If anyone who reads this and thinks yer ketosis is great and safe then so be it, its healthy to question such things, then just blindly follow others. Also there were many diets in the 70's and 80's where people actually died because not enough was known. Anyway you have my permission to delete this thread or close it....... if you think my intentions were not for discussion. I can assure you they were.
     
  16. flirty40greeneyes

    flirty40greeneyes Busy busy busy!!

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    If you are not doing a diet that takes you into ketosis I don't see why you have a vested interest??

    I would not dream of going onto the surgical weight loss section and make comments, because 1. it diesn't concern me as I have not had WLS and 2. I would credit them with enough intelligence to have gone into whatever thay have chosen with their eyes open and knowing the facts.

    FACT is being overtweight is far more dangerous if you don't do something about it.

    So what weight loss method are you using??
     
  17. DQ

    DQ Queen of the Damned

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    Not scaremongering?
     
  18. cherry15

    cherry15 Guest

    I am on no diet as such..... just eating less and exercising more. I do know what it feels like to be obese, because at nearly 21 stone thats what I was. I am now 11 weeks later 38lbs lighter, I eat three meals a day, good ratios of carbs, proteins and fats. I have posted on WLS as well, my sister had a gastric bypass operation three years ago........ I've been reading alot about losing weight reading all the threads on here........ I didnt even know what ketosis was or even heard the term until I read it on here, so I was just wondering why noone was concerned about it, because when I rad about if further, in books and on the net....... seems strange how many people welcomed being in such a state.
     
  19. cherry15

    cherry15 Guest

    No. Everyone knows how bad diets were in the 70's and 80's
     
  20. KD

    KD Gone fishing

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    True, but no known cases of anyone dying because of the Cambridge diet. And before you go googling, please note that the UK cambridge is a different diet to the US Cambridge one.

    My doctor approved of this diet for me, thank goodness.
     
  21. DQ

    DQ Queen of the Damned

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    But what makes you think people are blindly following others? Most people who are doing these plans have done their research, have spoken to their Dr, have had advice. So there is nothing blind about it. You seem to be implying that people following these plans have done none of that.
     
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