ok let's be honest

Discussion in 'Lighter Life Forum' started by Miss Fenella, 19 December 2007 Social URL.

  1. Miss Fenella

    Miss Fenella Full Member

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    of course you will lose weight if you don't eat.

    is it me or is this diet a bit like the emperor's new clothes?


    not sure if this is 'teaching ' me anything. i guess this is a wobble.

    advice please!
     
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  3. cah-ching

    cah-ching Gold Member

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    You're right and wrong.

    It is the emporers new clothes i as much as it's logical and darn right so obvious. What it teaches you is about yourself and your relationship with food given the abstinence. It's like appreciating or evaluating the relationship you have with someone once they're out of your life ....
     
  4. Christovee

    Christovee Full Member

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    I'm not sure whether you're alluding to the theory behind the weight loss or the theory about correcting crooked eating habits, however, I don't think the Emperor's New Clothes is the correct analogy. We're not a group of people denying the obvious in the face of blinding evidence of the contrary.

    If you're questioning the first point, I'm sure everyone on lighter was and is perfectly aware that if you consume fewer calories than your body uses you will lose weight. It is also clear to me (and many others it would seem) that being in a state of ketosis does stop the hunger issues that people experience on other diets making it easier to eat less food.

    In respect the latter, I honestly think it depends on the person and their eating habits. Do I think that CBT is a load of rubbish which we're all believing despite it sounding as likely as the flying spaghetti monster? No. I believe that CBT can be a very powerful tool, in fact I am living proof of that fact as I had CBT counselling in my late teens and early twenties for ongoing depression that had affected me for long periods of my adolescence. Any depressive episodes I have no last hours, not months due to me having the correct tools to cope with it. Is it right for everybody? Possibly not.

    Being in abstinence has taught me a lot of about my eating habits and is hopefully arming to cope with food more sensibly when I come out of it. I feel I understand my own reasons behind binge eating better than I have previously and when the most dangerous situations for me are and how to avoid them. I can also tell early when my brain is coming up with some "Eat your own body weight in chinese" plan and put a stop to it (in a similar way to how CBT taught me regard the early signs of a depressive episode and nip it in the bud all those years ago).

    However, this is me. We are all unique and have a different set of habits or reasons which resulted in us putting on weight to start with. Personally I have never had problems being sensible in groups of people, it's when I'm alone and tired and haven't eaten properly during the day. Without LL I probably wouldn't have identified this so clearly in my mind (I didn't manage this for the previous twenty seven years of my life).

    I can't say whether it will work for you or whether you have a set of 'issues' which CBT will be able to combat, however, having read of lot of LL blogs I can see it has helped others with eating habits that are different to my own.

    Sorry if I have misunderstood your original posting and sorry this is such a long post! We all have moments on this diet when we doubt and may even momentarily give up but don't let a bit of 'night think' or a bad day put your off completely and if you do feel that the CBT is wasted on you there is always the Cambridge Diet as a cheaper alternative which still gives the excellent weight loss results.
     
  5. Deb G

    Deb G Silver Member

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    I think the REAL learning will come through Management when you find your triggers etc. I find the TA and CBT helps me make the right choices for me, something I wasn't good at before!
     
  6. Miss Fenella

    Miss Fenella Full Member

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    thanks all - I was feeling really down last night. Read your responses ths morn and am feeling better.

    I'll keep plodding on
     
  7. Deb G

    Deb G Silver Member

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    Wobbles expected from time to time.;)

    Also........the way I see it is........ If I always knew that eating less would help me lose weight, why didn't I do it before??? :confused: LL has helped me see more clearly and think more logically about food (rather than emotionally) which means I will find it easier to make the right choices next time. I never saw it as a choice before, I just ate what I faniced without thinking! I know it sounds ridiculous, but I'm sure I'm not the only one!!:(
     
  8. mindless

    mindless Hair today - gone tomorra

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    Sorry if the above seemed a bit facetious, wasn't meant to be.

    You of course are totally right - put less calories in your mouth than you burn and you will lose weight.

    However, knowing this painfully simple logic - of course - doesn't do the trick. Except for the exceptional few (who must be incredibly robot like in terms of discipline and regime management) - it is impossible to keep focused without support and help in terms of tackling not what you eat BUT why you eat.

    (I happen to think the 'Robots' don't necessarily deal with their issues as they use blinkers to exclude during weightloss and when the 'blinkrs' are removed - whammo, problems still exist.

    I know I only managed to achieve through the support of my CDC and this place. I happen to think that CD doesn't help you in ways that LL does in terms of tools and techniques - but they both do modify your eating behaviour if you follow the eating plans and especially re-introduction of normal foods as they suggest.

    I still struggle with this - to this very day - so despite knowing the truism ie. less in than out=weightloss and has delivered huge positive changes, is still not enough for me and I need support into proper maintenance.

    Could I have done this quicker with TA or CBT - don't know! Could I have got to where I am now without support - NEVER

    So don't worry about what is a wobble - follow the plans as designed, they do work and will change your eating 'habits' so that you come out of the process a 'reformed' eating character.

    Good luck and keep posting when wobbling - thats when this place is at its best

    x
     
  9. Dancing

    Dancing Gold Member

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    hi there,

    I'm currently on holiday in NZ and this is my first time on line in a few weeks. This posting struck a cord as I've been eating BAD food while on holiday and have constantly been wondering the same thing .... have I learned anything at all or will I end up a big huge lump again??? One thing I do know is that I'm ignoring all the times my head says "I'm not hungry" or when my little voice says " you can stop eating now" I am hoping it is a blip as there is alot of emotional attachment to the food I am eating (NZ is my home country and I havent' been here in years) - but maybe I am deluding myself and I will have the same uncontrolled eating when I finally lose all the weight I want to.

    I will return to abstinance after my holiday but I know already it will not be as easy as it was before. 15 stone (5 stone loss) was the first really big hurdle for me. I've done it (and luckily despite all the eating I've only - so far - at last scale hop - put on 3lbs !!! I'm hoping that is due to all the exercise I've been getting and that they won't suddenly show a 1 stone gain) and now the motivation has gone a little.

    So, I have no answer for you fenellabut wanted to let you know I'm wondering the same thing myself. At the end of the day, it is up to us to remain determined. It isn't a magic cure but it gets us

    ....gotta go - money has run out
     
  10. Dancing

    Dancing Gold Member

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    christovee,

    I've had time to read everyone's responses now and wanted to say that I agree(d) with what you are saying. CBT is powerful, however, while I was the same as you, until I started my holiday, ie [Being in abstinence has taught me a lot of about my eating habits and is hopefully arming to cope with food more sensibly when I come out of it. I feel I understand my own reasons behind binge eating better than I have previously and when the most dangerous situations for me are and how to avoid them. I can also tell early when my brain is coming up with some "Eat your own body weight in chinese" plan and put a stop to it (in a similar way to how CBT taught me regard the early signs of a depressive episode and nip it in the bud all those years ago).] (haven't figured out how to do quotes) but I'm finding that that wisdom I had while in abstinance is not helping me right now. I suppose the simple answer is I haven't been through the process and followed management rules. And that is obviously a key point, however, won't there come a time when the trigger foods are reintroduced during management and won't I go through the same things then?

    I know what foods are healthy and which are not. I am quite capable of enjoying a healthy, balanced, low GI meal, however, when I take that restriction away and eat the triggers ... I don't stop. Surely, life after this isn't meant to consist of me forever avoiding my triggers? How will management help me to control myself when I eat them? Please don't just answer that I need to go through the steps, I'd really appreciate hearing what it is exactly that will allow me to have the control. What is it about working through management that brings that about? It can't just be understanding what is good an "bad" food as I know that already.

    (sorry for hijacking your thread Miss Fenella)
     
  11. Zomble

    Zomble Full Member

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    Hello Dancing - hope you're having a great holiday. I've missed your posts! This is a great thread, Fenella. I suppose (not having done it) that what RtM does is highlight the foods which we find unmanageable, but then it's up to us to work out a plan...maybe cut them out completely at home and only have them elsewhere, or exclude them during the week and not worry at weekends. I'm guessing that there will be some things I'll have to go without on a daily basis. But it's also got to be about establishing priorities and getting your pleasure from other things (ie conversation not cake!), which is probably a years-long endeavour.

    I'm also hoping that the longer you keep struggling the easier it will get, since you are establishing new habits and overriding the old ones. I used to be a chocoholic for example, but not any more. So old triggers can disappear.

    Haven't answered the question, sorry. Just thinking aloud.
     
  12. girlygirl

    girlygirl Silver Member

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    I'd like to 'think aloud', too. I've very much enjoyed reading this thread.

    I have never done LL, only CD, as a speeding up thing after a couple of years of calorie counting. At first, like most people, I was thrilled at the fast weight loss. I can't say I ever enjoyed SS, but I did enjoy the high of fast loss and the feeling of virtue it gave me. For us food equates to guilt. Never forget that, because in many cases it is guilt over even the tiniest deviation from the plan that leads to uncontrolled bingeing.

    Why else do we binge after a slip? Carbs stimulate the appetite, particularly when you have been mostly carb-free for a long time. Your body wants to counteract your rapid loss and fears that you may die if it does not. So you are prompted to eat by forces too powerful for you to resist.

    Well, that's how it seemed to me. When you cave in you are not being 'weak', nor are you being 'bad'. Your ages-old body is responding to internal signals to stop fasting and lay down fat to make up for the stored fat you have lost. It doesn't realise that you WANT to lose that fat!! In primitive times you wouldn't have wanted to lose so much as an ounce, for fear of not surviving the harsh winter.

    Our heads and environments may be older but we human beings are very old organisms! Next time you feel like hating yourself, remember that.
     
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  13. Dancing

    Dancing Gold Member

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    zomble and girlygirl thank you. Reading both your posts has relaxed me a little and has triggered something in my head - I have hope again.

    I guess I've missed the support of minimins too and it is good to have the opportunity to catch up briefly.

    Thanks again to you both as your thought sharing has helped me.

    have a good christmas everyone.
     
  14. Zomble

    Zomble Full Member

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    I recognize myself in your post, Girlygirl. Years ago, in America, I did a vlcd under a diet doctor. I lost loads of weight, just like now, but immediately afterwards something happened - it's such a long time ago that I can't remember whether we left the country or I decided to get pregnant again. Anyway, I didn't go through any sort of reintroduction to food and therefore didn't really reeducate myself, and I remember this huge urge to eat the most terrible things, such as Mars bars, which I'd never normally eat... needless to say, I gained all the weight back. So I suppose we're going to be up against the wall when we go back to food, but we will be armed with some self-knowledge from the counselling and the abstinence, and we will be introducing the food gradually, which will give us a chance to listen to our bodies and maybe (!) learn what makes us feel satisfied rather than stuffed. Also, I know now that I've got to be really careful around the carbs, and I think this is true for nearly everybody. I'm looking forward to RtM, though in a slightly scared way. I need to learn these lessons for the rest of my life, but I think it'll be a bit of a roller-coaster ride! Good luck to everybody who's also on the brink. We'd better stick together because we'll probably need each other!
     
  15. Blonde Logic

    Blonde Logic Yes. You can.

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    Hi Zomble :waves:

    What part of America did you live in? Are you American or were you just living there for a time?

    I am from California myself. :)
     
  16. Zomble

    Zomble Full Member

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    Wow! You must miss it...? Well, bits of it anyway. I was in Washington DC (4 years), and recently in Cambridge, MA (9 months). My youngest child was born in DC. How long have you been over here?
     
  17. Blonde Logic

    Blonde Logic Yes. You can.

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    It will be 7 years this July. I married a brit...and we thought we would be here 3 years and then settle in California - we are a little far behind schedule!!! I do miss it, but I love it here too. Mostly. ;):D

    I have heard Cambridge is nice, but I personally wouldn't want to live in DC. Fantastic to visit - but wouldn't want to be there. How did you get on? Were they nice places to live? I haven;t been round the East coast really since I was a child except one trip to Maryland and DC in 78! lol
     
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  19. Zomble

    Zomble Full Member

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    Yes. DC was a bit strange. We were there when Clinton changed over to Bush and half the population changed overnight (and started wearing cowboy boots which you know for us was super weird)! Cambridge is lovely. I think it's probably the most accessible to Europeans, and we found it quite friendly. It's tiny, whereas DC is big and quite southern in feel. Loved being in both though.

    Sorry we seem to have hijacked this thread... I would pm you Blonde Logic if I knew how to do it.
     
  20. ladylite

    ladylite Gold Member

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    A very interesting topic. I too get worried about coming to the end of the diet as I was a total compulsive eater, I didnt just eat the wrong things I regularly used to go on self detruct using food as the weapon as if I deserved to be punished.

    Since starting LL I have started to realize that it was just feelings I was stuffing down out of the way. I have alway been a happy and confident person and I liked myself, so confidence was not a problem.

    But over the last few days I have experienced feelings that I really dont like and they seemed magnified as I would usually go and eat something and feel better, thinking the feelings were dampened. But that is it they were just dampened by food but they were still there. At one time I cried asI didnt know if I can stick to LL as I dont think I can cope with the feelings. However this passed as I came to terms with the feelings and discussed them with myself and put them into perspective. After that the feeling of being in control of my destiny really pleased me for once I wasnt driven by food.

    I know I personally am going to have a long and sometimes difficult journey dealing with negative emotions that I have hidden for years, but somehow I am more determined than ever. I also know that if I dont go through the correct procedure ie RTM, maintenance etc I wont succeed so they will be top of my Agenda after the 14 week sessions.
     
  21. Blonde Logic

    Blonde Logic Yes. You can.

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    Ladylite - it is as if you are in my head. I feel exactly the same way and have those same fears. Emotions - horrible things, but so is squahing them with food, which is what we are going to lern not to do, and well done you for realising that.

    Going for 6 or so months without food to me seems impossible. It will no doubt be one of the hardest thigns I will ever go through, and I hope I have th strength to see it through.

    If I do, and make it to management, I am going to try and remind me what I sacrificed and suffered through to get to that point. Hopefully, that will keep in check and I will not undue all the good I do.

    I would be gutted to put it all back on - I think that would be the end of me - so I MUST NOT DO THAT!!!

    Wishing you nothing but happiness and success on your way to your new life.
     
  22. Miss Fenella

    Miss Fenella Full Member

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    I am really pleased I posted my initial thoughts - the support here has been great. I still have tricky days - in the back of my mind I cannot help but think not eating goes against all that is good in the world ;) BUT I am much healthier and happier than I have been for a while so the results speak for themselves. Seeing others too have silly niggles (which they are when you can see the diet works) is a great comfort - we are not alone!

    Thank you all for your thoughts and support - Have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
    xx
     
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