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SORRY! SORRY! Better now, but any advice on books or LL/CD mix?

Hello everyone...again.

I'm so sorry about my earlier posts. The 'cottage cheese and bacon' one was really me at a low ebb, and I have identified one of my negative-thinking triggers as 'searching for reasons to quit the diet'. These include: reasons it is unhealthy; reasons I won't maintain; thinking my LL counsellor is fat so it's clearly not maintainable; looking miserable with friends so they persuade me to stop; phoning Mum who only wants to feed me; and surfing nutrition websites to find ways to cheat. Maybe the worst of all is complaining to my friend who is on the diet too, in the hope that he'll quit too and we can go and binge in our old KFC ways. This last one is something I am really ashamed of, and realise makes me a very toxic friend.

I know these are all completely unhelpful things to process, but my mind is just working overtime. I have a week off uni starting Monday and am beside myself worrying I won't manage to occupy my chatterbox. But still, I know my earlier post was me feeling upset and aggressive at the programme because it is tough and is making me consider things about myself I'd rather not. I'm unhappy at the moment, but it's only day 5 and will get better, I know it. Sorry if I sounded defeatist or angry!

I'm still working on my post about switching from LL to CD. I would appreciate the versatility of the CD options a little more, as well as the price, but am still not sure how much I need the therapy. I'm not convinced by my counsellor, but I've only had the first group meeting with her (about SMART goals) so should probably wait a bit longer before I jump ship, since I do think I have food 'issues' that could do with sorting out.

Do the CD counsellors offer support and help with working through food issues? My friend told me it's more like you just go in, get weighed, get your sachets and then off you go, which sounds terribly mercenary. If it's more like one-to-one counselling then that must be miles better than group work? I just don't know. Anyone have experience of CD counsellors in Liverpool/Merseyside?

If I needed CD tetra-paks for work (shifts etc) could i just buy 7 of them a week from a CDC to replace seven of my LL sachets? I can imagine my LL counsellor would not be impressed....

My last question is, does anyone have any good books they recommend I read to work through food issues? I have seen mention of TA books, and some books by Berne (sp?). Anything good for CBT related to food/boredom eating or general motivation?

Thanks again team. Sorry for being so down in the dumps earlier. I am definitely going to avoid my 'reasons to stop' searches again.

John - Day 5 down, bring on Day 6!
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Oh yeah, and some people weren't overly supportive when I sounded like I was wavering, which was mightily unhelpful. Especially on a board renowned for it's supporting nature. Just 'cos I'm a boy doesn't mean you can be mean to me when I am having a hard time with it!
Hi John,

Well done for realising you were just looking for reasons to cheat. its a tough one to battle out as it goes aginst such ingrained habits. And lets face it its a very enjoyable process at times.

The best advice is to stick to the programme totally. 100% Just do it, get it over with and do management. I am just finishing week 3 of the management process and I am so glad I was 100% abstinent because reading other peoples posts, once you are off, even in a small way, it can be very tough to get back on.

With regards to your LLC, mine was also over weight. And I had anissues with it, also because she didn't do the counselling. So I went through foundation and some of development by watching the DVDs, reading the books and doing the exercises myself and just sticking to it, and of course coming on Minis - which is a fantastic place for encouragement and advice.

I managed fine, but switched to a LLC who had covered holidays for my old one and then finished her training and set up her own class. I did this because I know the management process to be the part which will either make or break my success for the rest of my life. And I was right to make the switch. But at the end of the day it is the counselling I switched for as I know that will make the difference.

I didn't have faith in LL or in me doing LL at the beginning, but day by day it grew and I have succeeded. Let it work for you and it will.

Best wishes
keep going

Hi John,

K E E P G O I N G!!!

I found my first week really tough, although that said, prior to starting LL, I wallowed aimlessly in the kingdom excuses! I was the true readymeal queen and BT even suggested I swap one of my "friends and family" telephone numbers for the telephone number of my local takeaway - oh the shame of it!

My LLC is good, I enjoy the counselling and i think I definitely need it throughout foundation, who knows beyond then!

All diets work if you stick to them, we all know this and I find the meal replacement option so much easier. I run a very busy company and also like you work unsocial hours, so therefore, easily prepared shakes and bars are a real bonus to me.

Good luck with your impending first weigh in, I'm sure you'll see the results and do let us know how you get on. The support on here is absoluetely brilliant and check out all the before and after photos - they are truly inspirational

Andie x
I have just read your other post, im sorry you are feeling negative and down but to be honest nobody was being mean to you at all. Im sure if you give it a day go back and read it that you will be able to see that you were being given sensible advice.
Anyway, back to this post :) it is great that you have realised what you were/are doing. I also always looked for reasons to eat food but being on this diet has really helped with that. I still have days where i would love to eat but know that these foods will not dissapear from the world and i can eat them ocasionally when i get to my ideal weight.
I find the counselling really important and the group support amazing.
I tried cd but i had a crap counsellor who just weighed me and took my money, she didnt understand the concept of the diet at all. I know there are fantastic counsellors out there though. For me I also like eating 4x a day on LL and for cd it was only 3 packs.

I tried CD for a week and found that I had no counselling at all - weighin, packs and off so went back to LL. I suggest you stick to LL for the 14 weeks at least, do the exercises, listen to the counsellor and at the end of that time decide whether you want any more counselling or whether switching to CD is now what you need to do. You will have loads of tools on board by then to help you tackle the rest of your journey. And until you switch to CD (if you do) DO NOT EAT. I am talking from personal experience here. Stay in abstinence, it is crutial! I have managed to lose 3lb in the last 3 weeks as the eating has taken over and look how much I should have learnt by now - I have been doing this since February! I don't think anyone was being mean - just hoping to make you see what you need to do for the diet to work. The support on here IS great, stick with it, and with us, and let us know how you get on.
Hi everyone. Thanks for the advice. Now I've slept on it all I am feeling much more positive again, and am going to stick to LL for the time being. I might try and rope my parents into helping out with the cost.

I've been 100% abstinent for 5 days now - no reason I can't do it for another 5, then another 5, then another 5 etc. One day at a time! The feeling of not having given in is so encouraging when you look back at it, that that's enough to spur me on more!

Also, now I realise people weren't being mean, just telling it like it is and offering advice based on a lot more experience than mine. I hope I didn't seem rude.

Thanks peeps.



Hi John

I have read you threads and I am really glad that you have turned a corner and come out the right end. I was very interested to note that you were surfing nutrition sites to find ways of maintaining a ketogenic diet(something that I have done myself!!) Sometimes a bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing!! I can see that in my LL group most will accept the information and LL approach unquestioningly but I am afraid I always have to see it for myself first. It is the critical thinker in me I guess.

There is a really good thread on here about SELF-SABOTAGE and I would urge you to read it. A couple of weeks ago in my group I mentioned that there are ways that are discussed on this site as to how one can stay in ketosis and still have a "cheat" here and there. My counsellor immedaitely responded by saying that if anyone tries to undermine the group with negative thoughts that she will ask them to leave. It was a source of some reflection to me but at the sam time it closed a door to those who may be having difficulties with this issue.

Keep on posting John - there is no doubt that this site offers some great support. Aside from the analysis of TA that we get in the groups(which I am already conversant with) I often wonder if using this site would be enough for me in terms of support.

Daisydee x:)
Hi John! Good to see you back in such a positive frame of mind. I can so understand your feelings - I've always played games with diets before, partly because having so much to lose, it seemed like ages before I could expect to see any results, so why not just cheat occasionally... But on LL I've met people who've lost lots of weight, very fast, AND the whole area of decision-making round food has been taken away. So if you trust the diet to do for you what it's done for others, and just don't think about food for 100 days, you'll really get there and feel great, not just about your weight loss (though that would be reason enough) but also about your commitment and the things you've learned about yourself from the counselling. I do hope you stick with it and finish what you've started. BTW, can you not have the soups on your shifts? You only need a kettle...? You're not still playing games with LL vs. CD foodpacks are you? Best of luck.
Hi John,
I have completed the LL diet including maintenance, I lost 5 st 8 lb in 13 weeks and then I did the maintenance program as well. I wouldn't have been able to do it without my group, give it and ur concellor time you'll be amazed just how much help and support they will provide. You are in day 6 now and you will be in ketosis so the physical hunger pains should be gone now. Now it's a matter of waiting till your first weigh in, get ready to be amazed. Remember to keep drinking loads of water i use to average 6+ litres everyday. Lastly keep posting on here you will always get good and honest advice which can sometimes hard to take on board but will always be worth following. Good luck and keep going.
Hi John :)

I've just caught up with your threads and pleased to see you're sticking with it :)

Most of us have been here all year long, some a little longer, and between us we can probably re-invent the whole concept of VLCD's. There is just a tonne of experience and expertise here and everyone has/is going through it together.

The one thing you'll never get here are any tips on how to cheat. The forum is support and advice based, so if you're down and almost out, you will *always* get a lift from someone. And if you're wondering just what the combination of the Thai Chilli and Chocolate foodpacks are like, with a bit of nutcrunch thrown on - toasted. Someone will have tried it!
But, if you want to know how to bend the rules, cut the corners or find a way to seemingly break the system you'll soon be told!! Because that's not what this forum's all about.
(you've probably guess that by now :D)

In answer to your question on switching, I would have a think about what you need. I needed total abstinence as I wanted to completely remove the problem to get to the underlying issues. Some people switch efortlessly and others struggle. With your LLC - it's all about the chemistry, so if you're not getting what you need there then definitely look for another one. You're paying for the counselling and should insist on getting your money's worth.
If you think your 'boredom' issue is the thing to sort out, then stick with LL. You'll be amazed at what else could be lurking under the boredom issue and if you've got a good group then you should get to the bottom of this quite quickly.

Keep posting - we do like a boy to torment in here :p

Hi, re books: I am addicted to them and have a large collection. The Eric Berne book is Games People Play which is good. My favourite, and the one I would recommend if you just want to read one book is Eating Less by Gillian Riley (it's in my local library so should be available easily). It is the most perceptive and sensible book I have ever read about food addiction and has had an enormous effect on my thinking. It fits in well with the LL counselling. I am rereading it again at the moment. There are some books mentioned in the LL manual I think. I have found the counselling extremely helpful and am still going to sessions 5 1/2 months after I finished foundation as I need to! My LLC is extremely perceptive and really helpful. She is not skinny but we are all on a journey and what you look like doesn't necessarily mean much. I agree with Tiger Girl about making sure your counsellor is good - it really is key to long term success.

Good luck and stick with it!
I'm sorry there - I'm the board hardnut, I'm afraid - you sounded like you were testing the waters rather than thinking about quitting - so I did barge in with a 'stick with it or else' attitude!

I didn't know you were a boy - I give the same stick to anyone who comes on here talking about eating ;) - I can't sugar coat that message, I'm afraid!

However, once I read the other post about your concerns about your counsellor I hope I sounded a bit less mean!
Oh - also - Christopher Fairburn's Overcoming Binge Eating is a dry read, but medically well researched and the LL Route to Management process takes several exercises from it. It's probably more useful for when food makes a return...but helps you to understand some of the thinking patterns.
Dear John

My last question is, does anyone have any good books they recommend I read to work through food issues? I have seen mention of TA books, and some books by Berne (sp?). Anything good for CBT related to food/boredom eating or general motivation?
I have got a long list of recommended reads on my blog; if you click on the books on the sidebar, you can see if any of them appeal. Be warned, many books conclude that intuitive eating is the way forward; that may be something for post Route to Management but not before, I now appreciate.

You might like "Take It Off and Keep It Off" by people from Overeaters Anonymous as it talks about abstinence.

Good luck.

Take care.

Mrs Lxxxx

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