Correct me if I'm wrong

rachele

Full Member
I've noticed that some people are posting as if ketosis is the only reason you lose weight on this diet??

I was under the impression from my CDC the first time I did this plan that the reason for the weight loss was the low calorie intake not ketosis.

Ketosis just means you're using up your fat stores as opposed to lean tissue, stopping the physical feeling of hunger meaning its easier to adhere to the plan and promotes a feeling of well being in some.

So I don't understand why some people think their weight loss it is dependent on being in ketosis and use ketosticks or post that their weight loss will be higher because they've gone into ketosis quicker this week? Don't get it??!!

Also if you do slip up and eat some carbs that the danger is the obsession that you've come out of ketosis can mean you think you've blown it and that's not true it just means, as long as you get straight back on plan, you'll just be storing extra water for a day or 2.

I'm not saying you shouldn't stick it you should and will remain in ketosis if you are and this is the easiest and most effective method. But I don't understand posts who give the false impression that the quicker you go into ketosis between cheats the more weight you loose???

If ate just 3 bananas a day I would lose weight just as fast as I have on CD (I know this because I did it years ago and lost a rediculous amount of weight) but its not healthy, I would feel increadibly hungry and wasn't be getting the nutrition my body needs.

Just saying!!!
 
Also your body will always turn to your glycogen (if you like -sugar stores) before your protein and fat stores - physiological fact. Therefore you will not metabolise a pure protein meal of chicken before 'sugar' stores! I think some posts will mislead some giving the wrong impression. Not saying that these people aren't losing the weight just that they are annouoncing it in a misleading way whether they realise it or not its not constuctive to others.
 
Couldn't agree more, Rachele.
 
Thank you Rachele, I'm am thoroughly confused by all the ketosis talk in these threads. I started CD 4 weeks ago and didn't have any hunger pangs at all but I've had a week off while being on holiday and restarted Sunday. I have been staving ever since. Don't understand why
X
 
Also your body will always turn to your glycogen (if you like -sugar stores) before your protein and fat stores - physiological fact. Therefore you will not metabolise a pure protein meal of chicken before 'sugar' stores!

:) If that was really true (that you metabolise protein before sugar (glycogen) stores), people doing Atkins would never get into ketosis in the first place!

If you've ever done Atkins, you'll come across forum posts from people saying that if you eat too much protein it slows weight loss. I suspect the confusion arises from reading that sort of thing. But it's more complicated than that. That only applies for folk who've already depleted their glycogen stocks as they've been on low carb for a while. As Rachele says, if you've got glycogen to burn, you will burn that first - that's the whole point of it being there!

I've been looking around for a good (and relatively lay(wo)man friendly!) explanation for how it all works for a while now. The trouble is, this stuff isn't simple to explain, so I might be looking for a while longer! Still, when I find it, I'll post it!
 
Okay, here goes, kind of a way to explain Ketosis and how it works...

Ketosis is a condition in which levels of ketones in the blood are elevated. Ketones are formed when glycogen stores in the liver have run out. The ketones are used for energy.

When the body is in ketosis it switches from being a carbohydrate-burning organism into a fat-burning one. The fat stores become a primary energy source, and the person loses weight.

The modern human body in most societies usually metabolizes glucose from carbohydrates for energy purposes, rather than energy from fat. If there is not enough glucose (from carbohydrates) in the bloodstream the body draws on fat stores for fuel

Protein - i.e. chicken is primarily used to build and replenish the body, only once all 'fuels' i.e. fat cells have been used up, will the body rely on protein as energy.

My conclusion from this research - your body burns your glycogen stores first, and only once it has run out, will it start to use protein as an energy source.
 
Oooh I love a bit of science! :)
 
You are right it does seem to become a fixation, that really isn't all that important. A friend of mine did 810 while I did SS and she lost at the same rate as me and never went into ketosis. On the other hand, the fear of coming out of ketosis could be what keeps a lot of us on the straight and narrow, if we think there are major implications we are less likely to veer off course.
 
i think for a lot of people, the speed of this diet isn't the most important thing - but rather that it's easy to stick to long term, because of the possibility of abstaining from food choices, and because of the lack of hunger that comes from ketosis.

i used the fear of losing ketosis as a tool to keep me on the straight and narrow: the first few days are awful and i believed if i had to go through them again i might just give up. but yes, the reason we lose weight faster than atkins etc is the kcals, not the keto.
 
Hmm. Okay. I'm a bit wrong about the chicken thing, I think - but not horribly wrong.

The nearest I can get to an expert opinion on the thing about whether eating chicken could delay you getting into ketosis is Michael Eades (of ProteinPower fame). And he does say:

Too much protein will prevent the shift into ketoses because the liver will convert some of the protein into glucose – this glucose will then be used first and slow down the ketogenic process.

What he doesn't say directly is how much protein is too much protein. A 150g chicken breast contains around 35g protein.

So... I think you'd have to eat an awful lot of chicken for it to significantly delay you entering ketosis (and incidentally, if you're already in ketosis it can't knock you out - let's get that clear!! ;)) but then there really isn't much written about this stuff apart from on body-building sites where it can be hard to separate the pseudoscience/urban legend from the truth.

It seems more logical to me to suggest that the length of time it takes you to get into ketosis is more directly related to the amount of glycogen stored in your liver.

Fascinating stuff, really, but I really mustn't spend any more of my day off trying to figure out what's true and what isn't! :D
 
Fascinating stuff, really, but I really mustn't spend any more of my day off trying to figure out what's true and what isn't! :D

You could quite easily become obsessed :D
 
These are really useful posts and very informative. I agree that its very easy to be misled by the bad science associated with ketosis (I have definitely fallen victim to ketosis obsession!)
 
Thanks for the input guys! I just thought it might shed some light on a few issues and its interesting to find out what's going on in our bodies! ;)
 
Can anyone share with me why we retain water when eating normally?
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Can anyone share with me why we retain water when eating normally?
X

Now this is a good question... to be honest I really don't know, however, whenever I am due on, I retain water, lets call it something that we women can't really help. Its always been the same even before I did CD. My example of this is this weeks weigh in... I'm due on. I only lose 2lbs. By the time of my next WI, mother nature has run its course and I hope to have a more positive loss. :D
 
sooooooooo am i right in thinking:- (and, please bear with me on this , i am from Essex lol),



out of ketosis you body uses its glycogen stores for energy until these are exhaused you then go into ketosis...

once your in ketosis your body uses up fat stores for energy....
....
if you over eat the protein - it will use up all the protien stores for energy, until these are depleted then will revert back to using fat.....


in theory, you are still loosing weight but postponing fat burning .....
....
same principle as before with alcohol - the body uses the stores of alcohol for energy before using fat etc etc...

so anything, in theory, that you put in your body when in ketosis will make ur body convert that into energy before using fat to do the same...

am i right (ish) lol

ooh i love this geekystuff... here comes the science bit lol
 
...but if you are going to consider fat, glucose, protein oxidation in terms of overall fat loss, you need to also consider fat storage. Will try to keep in layman terms.

So we have 3 main macronutrients. Carbs, protein and fats. Alcohol is the 4th BTW, but wont go into that

Imagine there was a food that was just one pure macronutrient and you could happily eat that ever after (unlikely to be one, and if there was, I'm sure nobody would be happy to eat that ever after)...but imagine there was.

Say you had 100% of your maintenance calories as one of them. So...

Fats: Well, they will store as fat. They'll also burn fat
Carbs: They rarely turn to fat, but they will also inhibit fat oxidation (burning).
Protein: Protein also rarely turns to fat, but it inhibits fat oxidation, instead increases protein oxidation.

But, foods have a ratio of these 3 macros, or at least 2. So, if there was one food that was mainly carbs, it would increase glucose oxidation, but would store the fat in the food.

If the food was mainly fat, it would store the fat, and then burn the fat after the other 2 macros were used up.

So, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. All that matters is calories in vs calories out, because that dictates the speed of fat loss.

I think people get confused because they only think in terms of fat burning and forget fat storage. A ketogenic diet tends to be higher fat, so more fat storage and burning going on. Hopefully calories are kept lower so more fat is burnt than stored.

Ketosis itself doesn't really matter for weight loss. Admittedly there appears to be some hunger reduction, but much of this can be put down to various other factors. You don't lose any more weight in ketosis, than out of it (that's down to calories)....okay...once the glycogen stores are depleted which gives a big water loss which doesn't matter too much as it can be gained easily too.

This is a very simplified explanation, but I hope that goes some way to answering some questions, as I must get off now and have me dinner :D

Enjoy your discoveries :)
 
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Can anyone share with me why we retain water when eating normally?
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Oh, just a quickie. When you start the diet, because of the low(ish) carb factor, you lose glycogen. Glycogen is bound with 3/4 times it's weight in water, so you lose a fair amount of water in the early days along with some fat.

Eat 'normally' and you will gain some of that glycogen and the water that goes with it. That is why we recommend going up the steps towards the end of the diet. You replenish the glycogen and water weight back to it's former glory. All good. You want that believe it or not. Means you'll be able to eat 'normally' without having huge weight swings.

Also, there can be some extra sodium in the foods which can lead to a little more water retention after a lower sodium diet. It all sorts itself out and nothing to worry about.

Now I really must go. Happy weight loss days folks :)
 
Yay!! Thanks KD. I was right its the calories intake that matters overall and the ketosis is just a welcome side issue! Lol :D
 
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