Thread: Minerva's all grown up...

I finally feel that I can join this forum, emotionally. I have gone through my ups and downs with this whole eating thing, learned from my mistakes, and I guess, pretty confident that I know how to do it now.

Don't get me wrong... Maintaining is hard work. It's easy as well, extremely so. But only once you really figure it all out. Genetically, I believe I am one of the people who are 'predestined' to lay down and store higher levels of body fat than others. On an evolutionary scale, we are the ones who would survive the times of famine to keep the species going. Knowing this, I know that my body calls for me to have more. And indeed, I find that I get very hungry, a lot of the time. Every day, is a fight against my chemical impulses. In some ways, I know that it will be for the rest of my life.
In other body chemistry ways, my leptin levels (chemical which regulates the feeling of 'satiety' and trasmits this to the brain) are also extremely out of whack. This is the first time in my life that my BMI is below 30. So, naturally, some chemical processes will take years to readjust, especially since I've never actually had 'normal' BMI at all before. I know I have a few difficult "hungry" years ahead of me. I am prepared.

Knowing these factors, and also being able to judge 'emotional hunger', and knowing that I should NOT be hungry any sooner than about 3 hours after eating any meal - it is easy to know when it is appropriate to eat. I also now know portion size... I physically cannot handle a lot. I hate the feeling of 'bursting'. Even being full is problematic, and it honestly doesn't take a lot to reach satisfaction. When I'm very very very hungry - I know that while I may WANT a HUUUUGEEEE plate of something - I know that my stomach has NOT magically expanded to allow more food 'just' because I'm 'starving'! A bowl of soup, regardless of how unsatisfying it looks at first - will and DOES fill me up quite nicely.

I love food, I love the different flavours. But I also know that a little bit is all I need. To taste it, and to leave it after it doesn't give me any more satisfaction. Knowing how to stop and not eat for the sake of eating. I mean, have a piece of cake. Have a bite, get that wonderful sensation hit, and leave the rest. Because it's true. Nothing is as powerful as the first bite! If I get given something, and it doesn't live up to my expectations, I stop eating it straight away. What's the point otherwise?



I dunno. Food is only food. I have 'hungry days' every day. I WANT to eat. But I don't. It's easy to go into the kitchen and binge, which is what I used to do. But I CHOOSE not to this time, that's the difference. I used to think that I had no control. I used to think that someone, something else made me do it. A bad day, a bad argument, snide remark, illness, pain... whatever. Those are excuses, and not valid reasons to use food as a comfort. ... Food is never to be used in that way. Food is not a reward either. It's a wonderful treat we use to keep our bodies ticking. We should enjoy it for the sheer pleasure, a few times per day (and ONLY at those times). Never for any particular reason, other than that we are hungry.

On rare occasions, it's not bad to have a treat though. But it should never be a 'weekly' thing. I don't agree with the 20/80 lifestyle, because it's too 'routine' like. It works for some people, but it doesn't work for me - because of one simple thing. I'm a creature of comfort and routine. Once something becomes a scheduled event (i.e. weekends become 'food free' days or some silly thing) this can lead to exuses to have more, or for it to start spilling over into the weekdays. ...

All in all - all good things in moderation. Live my life in a healthy way, every day, regardless. If an event comes up, have a little treat, but know how to control yourself and be able to stop when necessary. There is NEVER an excuse to over-do anything. NEVER let anyone else tell you what you should, or should not do. Just because someone is giving you a plate with cake on it, doesn't mean you need to accept it. You have the choice to say no if you don't want it. ...

I feel powerful when I say no. Yet I feel even MORE powerful when I say yes, and am able to stop when I want to. Have a bite, leave the rest. That is true power.


I wish you all a wonderful week ahead, and I really do wish this snow and freezing weather would go away... living without any body-fat kind of sucks! No matter how many layers I have on, I am still freezing half to death, I wonder how people cope?

believe that
min you speak truth and a tonne of good points in that post
and i agree its not good with this weather, im wearing gloves,scarf a few layers and still so cold.
have a wonderful week and maintain
x

SO good to see you here min and posting possitive thoughts. I have learnt so much from you, thanks for posting these true and insightful posts.
Continue 2010 in this mind set and you will be fine x

hi min
you sound really sorted - am going to refer back to this post when i start eating again as it all makes sense and i really hope i can adopt the same attitudes this time round

nice to have you here on the maintainence at last - even tho some of us here are way behind you, time wise!

im feeling the cold now too being back on packs i had forgotton how cold my nose, fingers and toes get!

daisy x

p.s. are your stats up to date? are you keeping even weight or put on or still losing?

Hey Min

Another fantastic post... sounds like you have come on in leaps and bounds. So far so good for me, some good days and some where I feel really crappy about myself even if it is still a good choice. Calorie wise apart from the 2 or 3 nights where I have had wine, I am still only on about 1300cal which is not too bad. Just wish it would all become second nature now and not something I am so conscious of all the time.

I really love what you said about feeling starving and then still only being able to eat a little. It is something I noticed myself recently. Dished a larger than normal portion of veg and things, because I was "starving" and still couldnt manage it all - you are right an incredibly powerful feeling to just leave and say oops I am done!!!

Hope to see more of ya on here hun, missed ya fantastic thoughts and insights

Jez
xx

Welcome aboard Min, really pleased to hear from you again & in such apositive frame of mind.

More than the rest of us you've been through the ups & downs of weight loss & maintaining so it's a real pleasure to read your thoughts above. As always eloquent and intelligent.

Welcome home.

Thanks Min, so very wise and true as always!

I'm kinda getting there and if cake is being offered and I REALLY want some then I will have a tiny tiny piece and be satisified with just having a "taste" of it rather than stuffing my face. I can't however say that I could have a big or even normal slice and only eat a tiny bit and then leave the rest on my plate, I would have to pass the leftovers onto someone else, just really struggle with leaving it on the plate ... so will have to stick to havin the odd very tiny bit.

Just looked at your pics Min and OMG the difference is astonishing, you are amazing!

x

Oh, my word... thank you guys. I'm truly blessed to know such a wonderful group of people on this forum - you guys have always been my inspiration, my sources of knowledge.

Thanks Gemma and Ken - how are you both getting on? The cold is getting quite unbearable, it's strange... I can deal with mental and physical exhaustion, sleep deprivation, extraordinary levels of stress... but the cold is nowdays truly PAINFUL. It's like stepping into a torture chamber every time I step outside. I'm supposed to be Russian as well! LOL, I lay waste to my heritage.

Susianna - you're doing extremely well! Thing is, just moving the plate away a tiny tad towards the middle of the table, mentally finishes the process of wanting more. The simple action denotes that you are done, and opens the piece of food up for the rest of the population around... Simple animal behaviour at work there really. Communal sharing and all that. Try it!

Thank you Sean It's a pleasure to finally be ready to be here, with the rest of you successful people!

Daisy... well.. the thing with all this is... I had to forcefully stop counting calories and have NOT counted 'officially' since 9th of November, so 9 weeks ago. I count my meals roughly, and only mentally in my head, (keeping to a mental note of about 150-250ish each for breakfast and lunch; 400ish for dinner, and 150-200ish for dessert) and assess my food by 'visual portion' size... I tend not to snack unless I am mentally 'flagging', so I have 5 almonds, an apple or another small snack or some such .... I weigh and record my weight every Monday *only*. ... And I'm at a bit of a crossroads here. I don't quite know what to do? Mentally I still think I 'over-eat', I do panic a bit when I feel a bit 'bloated'. ... However, since 9th Nobember I have still lost 4lbs... so technically I am still losing, and I'm not very happy with this. It's justt quite hard to work up the courage to eat more, and know how much is too much in the grand scheme of things. I don't want to start piling it on, but I don't want to lose any more... I want to gain a few pounds, but terrified to do so. It's all quite confusing to be honest !! And I definitely do not want to start eating with the excuse ‘I need to put on a few, so I can allow myself this” !! Lol. ... So yes, my ticker is ...correct at this moment in time. ...

And Jezzy... Ah. I really do feel we should meet up... maybe we can learn a lot from each other – because I know, we are both in the same place. Or seem to be. Living on 1300 calories, when REALISTICALLY we should actually be having more. I don’t count, but I know it’s roughly around that. And I’m not sure it will become “second nature” as much as you think it would... We will always be self-conscious around food.. It will always be the primary thing on our minds. ... It’s become second nature to recognise when we’re full, or to kind of compensate for an excess of a day before... I definitely feel a natural repulsion to food the next day after an over-eat, or too much alcohol.
I think as long as we remain vigilant, and eat our food slowly, listening to our stomachs all the time, we’ll be ok, no matter how scary the prospect of going it alone in the future is.


The other point I wanted to make is... coping mechanisms. My boyfriend and I on occasion, have a special ‘Chocolate Tasting Club’ chocolate together. 1 per few days. I don’t eat sweet things, so such a treat is wonderful and really keeps chocolate special... However, don’t you find, that sometimes, when we allow ourselves a treat – it’s soooooooooooooo tempting to have more? To keep going? ‘Just one more won’t hurt ! ... WRONG! One extra, in due course does lead to more. And then some more. Boundaries get broken. ... Hence you do need to find a coping mechanism. I have a few. Break the taste of the item you crave. – Have a cup of coffee ready at your side. Or (no matter how much you hate the idea) pop a piece of sugar-free chewing gum in your mouth. As soon as you get that minty hit, you will stop wanting more. A few minutes later (after you’ve hopefully walked away as well!!!) you will forget and will not crave the item anywhere near as much as you thought.
Another coping mechanism I have – when I do want something sweet, I have a little box of diabetic sweets... The kind you suck for a while... Available at any Boots store – remember, not to replace them with sweets, but only have them when you seem to can’t control yourself. They are not to be eaten one after another, so... be careful. Another, is unpeeled sunflower seeds, for those moments when idle hands want something to pick at, something to graze on... Peeling a few, eating some... very nice, and nutritious. Takes the hunger pangs away!
And the last... of course. A big, lovely mug of something warm. My item of choice, coffee. Mmmm. Gives a nice energy buzz, keeps you hydrated, and most of all – feeling satisfied.

That’s it for me for now, off I go to cook some dinner!

Thank you LS!
Like yours - my dessert also consists of plain fat-free yoghurt and some fruit or a small handful of raisins. It's so simple and delicious!
You are so right about 'having it just out of routine' issue... I do have the dessert most days, after dinner... sometimes I displace it, on rare occasions... But I don't like to.
I allow myself the indulgence. But I ALWAYS keep on top of what I put into my yoghurt and make sure that new additions don't creep in on top of 'what I'm used to'. Sometimes it's JUST some frozen berries. Sometimes just a small box of raisins. Sometimes a little more. I vary it that way, rather than cutting it out or displacing it ... when it starts becoming a problem, I will tackle it as such...

I am amazed...you have done so amazingly well, and i like your thinking
had a peek at a few of you pics- the before and afters...WoW!!!
and..that 'entwined' pic of you both is soooo cute xxx

Life after weight loss is a funny thing... I KNOW I do not want to lose any more. In fact I'm terrified of it. I hate the way my body looks, and I hide it because it's scary. I FEEL fat, yet I LOOK skeletal.
I don't know how to put weight on without freaking myself out about it, and I find it hard to 'up the food' because there are several mechanisms that I have in place to prevent me from reverting to old ways of bingeing and secret eating. ... I'd have to break some cast-iron rules which are indoctrinated in me now to actually be able to gain ... Never the less, I didn't freak out when I pushed myself to stuff my face with crisps, and allowed myself some fancy cocktails on NYE. I "gained" about 3 lbs, but I didn't worry at all. ... It's all quite strange, I guess it was because I allowed myself to pig out that evening, I made a conscious decision to do it, so as a consequence I didn't feel guilty. Went back to my normal lifestyle and that weight has all disappeared again without any consequences.

... Mechanisms which I have in place to deal with food which prevent me from over doing it are many. Depends on the situation of course... I do not eat after I am "done" with a meal. So no nibbly bits even after 5 minutes of finishing my plate. 3 hour intervals minimum between food, unless I need an energy injection when I'm studying hard (or am very cold - cold takes a lot of energy to deal with!) ... Then, I will always wait for a 'round' clock figure, such as, if I'm hungry at 19:36 for example, I WILL WAIT until 20:00. First of all to make sure I am actually hungry, and second of all - to promote self-disclipline over the body impulses.
And the last ... most scary of all - I enjoy my food. I love my meal-times, so I find it terrifying to 'sabotage' my hunger. I will not have anything an hour and a half before I'm 'due' for food. I WANT to be absolutely famished when I eat - then I feel like I deserve it. ... And if I don't feel hungry enough, I just won't eat it. I hate the feeling of over-fullness, so I have to keep to this rule. I eat very slowly and stop when I start to feel bloated.

Snacking is kind of out in that way, except for a few scheduled snacks to keep me going in between breakfast, lunch and dinner ... It's all rather confusing right now, I feel a bit out of whack. I eat fine in my own mind, but realistically I know it's way too little. I can't physically eat more though because I can't stuff any more in, and because if I start to eat more I'll feel out of control. Funnily enough though, I was terrified of giving the control to me from the numbers, and it's worked ok. Yesterday I did a small exercise and logged my calories for the first time in 9 weeks, and it nearly ruined me. Knowing the numbers first hand is ... very very damaging. Straight away I started cutting things out in order to make the number go smaller, regulating, planning, etc etc... ugh...

While I don't feel helpless like I did when I was calorie counting, I still do find it a little hard in knowing how much and when. I have broken old habits of the 'old me' ... I can't even begin to understand how I used to live. These new habits I've developed have become my life, my everyday routine. ... but perhaps some of them, are just as damaging, as some of my old ones.

So, always be careful what you wish for. Being 'slim' will not bring you happiness inherently. It is not the solution to your problems. It will only work, if you are prepared to embrace it properly. ... And in doing so, you must remember, that you have to change everything, not just your image, but also the deeper emotional relationship that you have with your inner self. No matter who you are at this present moment in time - if you can't accept yourself - it will always destroy you in the end.

Very wise words as usual Min

I logged again for a few days and have now stopped again. It does make me quite paranoid. I have noticed that I am learning to listen to my body a lot more now, and as you know I am a creature of routine, or rather a creature of structure, so it has been difficult to break some of these habits, however I am starting to break them. The worst for me at the moment is the mental bashing I give myself if I feel I have had a bit too much of something, or feel I have had a less than perfect day. Logically I know this is not about perfection but about real life, and up and down, and even though my LLC says I am doing fantastically, I still feel a bit out of whack! Mentally that is.... I am finding it hard knowing most of my other classmates are back in abstinence - lol I should be proud of myself for having a bit of control over Xmas, but omg it just makes me want to go back on the packs. Control seems to be such a major issue for me.. But I suppose I have always used food as control in one way or another. Lol sorry just rambling now, but thank for those fab posts, and the good ideas re the chocolate and eating gum after!!

You cannot beat a good coffee, so we must must meet for one soon <G>

Jez
xx

great posts again min and some wonderful insight. I love reading the things you and jez write and they give me so much to learn and look forward to. You both have excellent writing styles and I'm grateful the both of you have stuck around here to help us lot (along with BL and SB!).

I'm doing great min, almost 5 stone done and on the last run now. Got 18 lbs to go, and it's getting a little harder as I get closer to the end. The old mind starting to give me child responses, I want to eat now, I look ok, do I really need to abstain? I know the answer to all those questions, and I'm here till the end, to hit my goal and commit to RTM 100%. I have really enjoyed the diet though, found it easier than I had imagined, really loved the simplicity of it all and the feeling of control I have started to learn.

So thanks again, for inspiring me when I started this wonderful journey. x

...I feel a bit out of control today... I feel a bit fat today... I couldn't make myself study, and it all adds up.
Started the day at 7:30, got up... had a lovely breakfast (0% Total, with some raisins and a Ryveta) ... read a journal article... then I had to go to New Scotland Yard to pick up a Met. Volunteering badge... then I came home... and couldn't make myself study at all... hm. All because of a small, wholewheat breadroll that I didn't know the calories of. Isn't that stupid?
I bought a small roll from Morrisons on the way home to have with my tin of chicken noodle soup. I don't officially count calories, but, I keep to a rough guideline for every meal in my head. ... but because I did not know the roll, it made my head start to spaztic out, no matter how much I try to calm it down. REALISTICALLY the roll only constituted a maximum of 130 (gave some of it to my boyfriend)... plus the soup of 120. That's 250-300 TOPS for lunch. ... right? Yes. 180 for breakfast as well. ... Then ... had a tiny taste of boyfriend's crustless quiche out of curiousity - as I've never really eaten quiche before. ... and such a small taste, unscheduled intake of food (OH THE HORROR!!!! - it was UNSCHEDULED!) was another point of spazticking out of my brain. ... I do try to push my boundaries a little, every day, to make my relationship with food go into a more healthy direction... Oh I try. But seems, I failed today?
So this leads to my dinner, which, was a Chickpea Moroccan Tagine with big couscous. I had about a third of the portion with some vegetables and salad... Realistically, again, the WHOOOOLEEEE plate couldn't have been more than 400. ... 450 at most if I really somehow managed to be a little piggy and put too much on my plate. ? ... Then a Total 0% with some pieces of apricot for dessert - 130ish.
So, 1000-1100 ... ....................... yet I freak out and feel out of control. Somehow. Because I stretched my boundary to include something I don't usually allow myself... a little... tiny... wholewheat roll.

Oh deary me.

I think LS brings up a very valid point about using the term "relationship with food" or viewing it as such.

Speaking for myself, I agree....I no longer like to use that phrase. The old me DID have a relationship with food. It was my best friend for a time, and then it became my enemy, and now it is neither of those.

Now food is sustainance that vast majority of the time, and pleasure the other times. But it is neither my friend or enemy. That was the old me.

Min, saying this with good intent, and a smile on my face and a gentle nudge and giggle to you - build a bridge and get over it. It was a wheat roll. It was a few unplanned calories. Its done, and it is not going to make any difference to you or your shape or your size - unless you let it.

I hope you know that I meant his in a supportive way - text does not always translate, but that phrase, build a bridge, is s aphrase SB and me and my group use an awful lot....so it is not meant in a flippant way.

We tend to hang onto feelings of panic far too long, and they serve no purpose whatsoever.

Your caloried are still very low - though improved - which is good. But kowing that, logically as I know you do - you know that roll will not make a difference andprobably did you some good nutritionally.

So, a new day - skip the roll, have a peice of fruit today, or something like that - and try not to stress over the things that will not impact you....save your energy for other things.

I look forward to the day that you are not even mentally logging your calories. I think you will feel free and beter for it.

Hang in there!!

xx