Help please am desperate as to what to do now : (

Skinny girl

Full Member
Well a great big loss this week of 5lb certainly not expected at this late stage of the diet. I am now just 1.5lb from goal! I have been 100% on packs now for 4 months with a 4 stone 4 pound loss. I have not cheated once. The thing is I cannot carry on like this on 4 packs a day, I am constantly dizzy and have to clutch at the wall as I walk past, my hair is falling out at an alarming rate, I am feeling breathless even when not doing much, constant headaches (I drink a minimum of 3 litres of water a day) it has to stop but how. I am so confused as to what plan to follow after packs, I know what works for one won't work for another, but am so confused by all the different plans, some do judd, dukan, lipotrim refeed, S&S refeed, LL refeed, low carb etc, etc but it terrifies me that I will choose the wrong plan so I feel safer if I stay on the packs but I can't do that. I have got a chicken breast out of the freezer which I thought I could have some later with some vegetables and have 3 packs and a meal but is that the right thing to do?

Some people are asking if I am ill because of the weight loss and I don't have my normal spring in my step, I need normality but what is normality?



Please, please help me, thank you.
 
You need to stop this diet now. Have your chicken and veg and go visit a doctor ASAP.

Ketosis burns fat and also muscle, don't mean to scare you but dizzy and breathless? Come on seek medical advice at once.
 
Thank you Amethyst.
I have actually felt much better today, still a tad dizzy though. I think the issue was I went back to the gym early Thursday morning and did a Combat/Pump class, one that I used to do all the time on a regular basis at the start of this diet and up until Christmas but then I had not been for so long that it just zapped me of any reserves I had left. I was wiped out on Thursday and Friday and that class is the only thing that I had done differently.
I have just had my first proper food in 4 months, I had 100g chicken, 50g broccoli, 50g cauliflower and 100g swede. I feel totally and utterly stuffed and was an emotional first meal back into proper food, but am proud of myself for doing it.
I am prone to being anaemic so I will go to the GP and get my bloods taken to check all is fine.
 
Have you ever added salt to your packs? Mac cheese with a sprinkling on top for example? I've never been one for salt but felt hideously dizzy at the start - adding salt stopped this.
 
Dizzy/lightheaded could also be due to low blood pressure..I would definitely do and see the doctor just to check things out...

Being wiped out after doing two classes could also be an explanation, after all the number of calories we are on don't really give you much in reserve for a combat class!! I remember those well and am looking forward to going back, but i really don't think i will start until I'm done....

congrats on the weight loss you have done brilliantly. I would be tempted to do the S&S refeeed if that is the plan that you are following, at least to start with and to give you time to investigate the other options x
 
Well done on reaching your goal!! That's amazing, you're an inspiration to us all! :D

I remember ketosis made me feel absolutely awful when I was getting to the lower weights - I think with 1 lb to go to goal, you can start a re-feed. You did the right thing by doing 3 packs per day just now. I remember the LL re-feed was very good - it lasted about 12 weeks (maybe a bit too long in my opinion), but it does help if it's followed.

Do a week of 3 packs and 1 protein meal - then next week add a small fruit snack (maybe an apple) and slightly increase the protein portion (from 100g to 200g). Then see how you feel. :) Listen to what your body needs not what it wants - the emotions may start triggering cravings, as well as the additional chemicals that your body hasn't had for quite a while (grapes were pretty dangerous for me!).

The additional food will make you feel more hungry, so do watch out for it. Maybe start getting in the habit of counting your calories? It really puts perspective and a control mechanism to ease you into what 'normal' eating is.
 
This is the Slim & Save re-feed method:

Slim & Save Re-feed Programme
Before you start you re-feed plan its important to be aware of the way a ketogenic diet works in
respect of weight loss and weight gain and the part glycogen plays in this process.
Everyone loves the results of a VLCD Ketogenic diet, you can achieve fast results, suppressed
appetite, and regular weight loss. However, it is common for people to panic when the time comes for
taking a break or coming off a VLCD for fear of gaining weight. There is nothing to be afraid of and I
want to start by putting your mind at rest and explaining the process, and why the weight gain you will
have during this time is not a bad thing!
When on a VLCD diet you are typically in the region of 50-100g of carbohydrates per day, this level of
carbohydrates will force the body into a state of ketosis due to the body not having enough glycogen
to use as its main fuel source and switches to using fat for energy. The breakdown of fats in this
process results in 3 different molecules called ‘ketones’ two of which: acetoacetate and ßhydroxybutyrate
can be used as energy by the body and the third acetone which can’t be used by the
body and is excreted in the urine, and also through the process of breathing, (hence the bad breath).
Glycogen is a branched chain of glucose molecules made by and stored in the liver and also stored in
the muscle cells to provide the body with an energy source that can be used quickly. Glycogen is
stored in the muscle in a 1 to 3 ratio, 1g of Glycogen to 3g of Water. The approximate amount of
glycogen the body can hold is said to be 50-100g in the liver and 400g in the muscle cell. Based on
holding 400g of glycogen in the muscle we can estimate that 400g would hold with it 1200g of water.
Combined would give 1600g + the additional glycogen in the liver would amount to 1700g (1.7kg or
nearly 4lb).
When you started your VLCD your body had to use up all of your carbohydrate from the bloodstream
as well as all of the glycogen stored in the liver and muscle, which we now know could account to
around 4lb in weight loss that is not fat. So, when you come off any VLCD programme that involves
ketosis you can expect to regain this 4lb of weight because as soon as you start to eat carbohydrates
they will convert to glycogen and be stored back into the muscle along with the water. Remember 1g
of glycogen stores in the muscle with 3g of water. After long periods of ketosis your body can also
‘supercompensate’ the reloading of carbohydrates and take in more than your body needs.
Supercompensation would be a temporary phase and would regulate itself within a couple of days at
most but initially could account for an extra 2lb in glycogen/water weight gain.
So remembering that this weight you will regain is not fat weight you can allow yourself not to be
concerned about gaining approximately 4-6lb in the first week of re-feeding. If you gain more than 4lb
this would generally be lost within the next week naturally.
The glycogen and water weight you regain has a positive effect on the metabolism due to occupying
muscle cell area and increasing the amount of calories your body burns each day, so this weight gain
is certainly a healthy one!
So hopefully you are now not afraid of gaining a few pounds once you come off your VLCD. If the
weight on the scales is more important than how you look in the mirror (eg: you have to weigh 10st or
life will not be worth living!), then we suggest you lose around 4 to 6lb more than your intended goal
weight, this will allow you to still be at goal weight once re-feeding is complete.
Important information:
• Do not drink alcohol until re-feed is complete.
• Continue to drink 2.5-3 litres of water per day (includes water in tea/coffee & meal packs).
• Do not stop re-feed prematurely.
• Do not eat after 8:00pm.
• Do not eat sweets or chocolates.
• If you get stuck or have any problems contact us for support do not quit.
Throughout the re-feed and beyond you should continue to aim at drinking 2.5 to 3 litres of water per
day, (this includes the fluid in your shakes/meals & tea/coffee).
If you have lost less than 3st (42lb) then follow the 7 day re-feed, if you have lost over 3st follow the
10 day re-feed (for 10 day plan day 3 is repeated 3 times and day 4 repeated twice).
7/10 Day Re-feed:
Please note all weights for cooked products are ‘after cooking’
Day 1:
Breakfast: Any Slim & Save VLCD Pack
Lunch: Any Slim & Save VLCD Pack
Dinner: 150g of chicken, turkey, white fish fillet, salmon, tuna or quorn
100g of vegetables from the Slim & Save vegetable list
100g of Carrots or Peas (or 50g each)
Snack: 1 small piece of fruit
Day 2:
Breakfast: 1 Serving or Porridge Oats ~or~ 30g Special K ~or~ 1 Shredded Wheat
180ml Skimmed Milk
NO SUGAR
Lunch: Any Slim & Save VLCD Pack
Dinner: 150g of chicken, turkey, white fish fillet, salmon, tuna or quorn
100g of vegetables from the Slim & Save vegetable list
100g of Carrots or Peas (or 50g each)
Snack: 1 small piece of fruit
Day 3: ~ (Also Day 4 & 5 for 10 day plan)
Breakfast: 1 Serving or Porridge Oats ~or~ 30g Special K ~or~ 1 Shredded Wheat
180ml Skimmed Milk
NO SUGAR
Lunch: Any Slim & Save VLCD Pack
Dinner: 150g of chicken, turkey, white fish fillet, salmon, tuna or quorn
100g of vegetables from the Slim & Save vegetable list
150g of New Potatoes
Snack: 1 small piece of fruit or Low Fat Yoghurt
Day 4: ~ (Also Day 6 & 7 for 10 day plan)
Breakfast: 1 Serving or Porridge Oats ~or~ 30g Special K ~or~ 1 Shredded Wheat
180ml Skimmed Milk
1 TSP of Sugar if required
Lunch: Any Slim & Save VLCD Pack
Dinner: 150g of chicken, turkey, white fish fillet, salmon, tuna or quorn
100g of vegetables from the Slim & Save vegetable list
150g of Jacket Potato or 150g Boiled Rice
Snack: 1 small piece of fruit or Low Fat Yoghurt
Day 5: ~ (Also Day 8 for 10 day plan)
Breakfast: 1 Serving or Porridge Oats ~or~ 30g Special K ~or~ 1 Shredded Wheat
180ml Skimmed Milk
1 Level teaspoon of Sugar if required
Morning snack 1 small piece of fruit
Lunch: Any Slim & Save VLCD Pack
Dinner: 150g of chicken, turkey, white fish fillet, salmon, tuna or quorn
100g of vegetables from the Slim & Save vegetable list
150g of Jacket Potato or 150g Boiled Rice
Snack: 1 small piece of fruit or Low Fat Yoghurt
Day 6: ~ (Also Day 9 for 10 day plan)
Breakfast: 1 Serving or Porridge Oats ~or~ 30g Special K ~or~ 1 Shredded Wheat
180ml Semi-skimmed Milk (or Skimmed if preferred)
1 Level teaspoon of Sugar if required
Morning snack 1 small piece of fruit
Lunch: 3 Slices of Weight Watchers or Nimble bread
210g Baked Beans
1 Small piece of fruit
Dinner: 150g of Lean beef or pork steak, chicken, turkey, white fish fillet, salmon, tuna or quorn
100g of vegetables from the Slim & Save vegetable list
150g of Jacket Potato or 150g Boiled Rice
Snack: 1 small piece of fruit or Low Fat Yoghurt
Day 7: ~ (Also Day 10 for 10 day plan)
Breakfast: 30g of any cereal
180ml Semi-skimmed Milk (or Skimmed if preferred)
1 Level teaspoon of Sugar if required
Morning snack 1 small piece of fruit
Lunch: 3 Slices of Weight Watchers or Nimble bread
Small covering of low fat spread
2 Slices of cooked meat ~or~ 70g Tuna/salmon ~or~ 40g of hard cheese + Any salad
1 Small piece of fruit
Dinner: Lean beef or pork steak, chicken, turkey, white fish fillet, salmon, tuna or quorn
100g of vegetables from the Slim & Save vegetable list
150g of Jacket Potato or 150g Boiled Rice
Snack: 1 small piece of fruit or Low Fat Yoghurt
Maintaining your weight loss
To get to the stage of re-feeding you have made a lot of sacrifices, changes to your diet and eating
habits to get these results, but now the hard work begins! We don’t want you to have done all of this
for nothing, we want you to reap the benefits of your labour and keep the weight off.
Many millions of people are overweight not because they eat excessively but because their
metabolism is slow and as a result they do not burn up all of the calories that they eat. Weight loss is
a very simple process, put in it’s simplest form you must burn up more energy (or the same) than you
eat. If you eat 1500 calories per day and your body only burns 1300 calories you have a daily excess
of 200 calories.
200 Calories per day for 365 days in a year = 73,000 kCal
Putting that into perspective, that is the equivalent of 2 slices of dry toast or 3 Digestive biscuits a day.
Given that 1lb of Fat is equal to 3,500 kCal you would gain: 20.8lb (almost 1½st) in only 12 months!
So you need to be aware that your weight loss efforts are not just to lose the weight. If you want to
maintain your great results you need to look after your diet and your body or the weight will just creep
back on and put you right back where you started.
Tips to maintaining your weight:
As you gained weight over a period of time they may have been bad habits that contributed to your
weight gain that you can avoid in future:
• Eating too late at night
• Not drinking enough water
• Too much alcohol
• Eating crisps or sweets
• Takeaways and junk food
• Extra snacking
• Large meal portions
Some ideas to add to your plan that may be helpful:
• Choose fruit as a treat rather than chocolate/sweets
• Always eat at the table and be aware of meal times
• Avoid refined white bread & pasta
• Try to do at least 20 minutes exercise every day
• Get at least 8 hours sleep
• Never buy bigger clothes, if they do not fit you need to lose weight!
Beyond re-feed:
The best way to achieve a successful maintenance programme is by keeping a food log and counting
calories. With this method you are able to assess your weight loss/gain against the amount of
calories you are eating.
If weight is gained:
• Gain 0lb - keep calories the same
• Gain 1lb - reduce daily calories by 200
• Gain 2lb - reduce daily calories by 400
• Gain over 2lb - replace 1 meal with a VLCD pack each day.
If weight is lost:
• Loss 1lb - increase daily calories by 100
• Loss 2lb - increase daily calories by 200
• Loss over 2lb - increase daily calories by 400
Slim & Save will support you throughout your programme from start to finish and beyond, and
can also provide you with a calorie controlled online meal planner with full nutritional breakdown and
historical data.
 
I would suggest that you go to 3 packs plus a protein meal - but up the calories to 800 a day (or 1000 or 1200). Once ou're comfortable with that do the SnS refeed. I would also choose the plan pu are going to follow at the end. It really doesn't matter what you vhoose - all of them will work - the important thing is that it suits you and our lifestyle as then you are more likely to stick to it. Good luck!
 
Thank you all for replying, it means a lot to me.
I have not ever added salt to my packs, the only thing I have added throughout is Linseed because I have had major bowel issues on this diet and was not going for a few weeks at a time which was obviously not good.
I do have low blood pressure as well normally so I guess that could well be why I am feeling dizzy more.
Don't worry it wasn't a double gym class I am not that mad yet....it was 30 minutes Combat/30 minutes Pump. I only went because my gym buddy text me to encourage me back to the gym. Nobody knows apart from all of you and my husbad that I am doing this diet.

Minerva - Yes am planning to have 3 packs and a meal for a week and see how that goes and also it give me time to work out what step to take next.
Eclipse - that is really helpful with the refeed info I will print that out and see what the deal is.
Weasey - I am tracking with MFP and have come in at 759 calories today so that is good to hear that I should be aiming for 800 initialy. I know I really do need to work out a long term plan. I have a young family of 3 children and am a busy Mum so something that means I can eat with the family would help. For 4 months now I haven't and I know that I want more normality.
 
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Hi :) a trip to the doctors is a must,you need a check up, I lost hair doing s&s, some do suffer with this, gym classes in my opinion arnt the best idea on a vlcd, it's not light exercise, but everyone is different, I personally can't do gym classes when on vlcd.

As for your next diet, I have done ww, juddd and Atkins and all 3 are great diets, I would do some research and give the ones you think you can do a try, you may need to try a couple of diff ones to find the right one for you

Feel better soon xxx

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Now that your BMI is under 25, you really shouldn't be doing a VLCD! Your body doesn't have enough fat stores to use to bump up what you're getting from the packs and so that's why you're getting those side effects, your body is shutting down really. Don't mean to make it sound scary, you just need to up your intake. Get started on the refeed programme that Eclipse posted. Good luck with maintenance!
 
Caz said:
Now that your BMI is under 25, you really shouldn't be doing a VLCD! Your body doesn't have enough fat stores to use to bump up what you're getting from the packs and so that's why you're getting those side effects, your body is shutting down really. Don't mean to make it sound scary, you just need to up your intake. Get started on the refeed programme that Eclipse posted. Good luck with maintenance!

That's not true. You shouldn't start a VLCD if your BMI is less than 25 as you don't have enough weight to lose - but if you have been on a VLCD it is ok to continue to goal weight. Plenty of people do this - including me. Of course of you are feeling ill you should look to do something else but in general there is nothing wrong with continuing the VLCD to your goal weight as long as it is within the healthy weight range.
 
They're not meant to do it as a complete food replacement though, that's against government guidelines. With Cambridge, once you hit a BMI of 25 you could carry on but you had to add in a meal, up to 810 calories a day I think. So still a LCD but not officially a VLCD with total food replacement.

Slim and Save say "It is essential you are in good health and have a BMI of over 25 to follow this programme" in relation to 4 packs a day.
Optifast say that to follow the Phase 1 450-800 calorie phase you should have a BMI of 27 or above, otherwise follow 800-1000 Phase 2.
Cambridge say "Sole Source and Sole Source Plus can be used for rapid weight loss by people with a BMI of 25 plus one stone." Otherwise you follow the 810 plan or above.
Exante say that with a BMI of 25 or above, you should follow their Working or Simple solutions, which are 1000-1200 a day.

Wasn't just plucking the statement out of my head, honest :) NICE guidelines actually suggest a BMI of 30 or more for a VLCD.
 
I have had my second day of 3 packs and a meal and tracking my intake on MFP. Total yesterday was 759 cals and 59 carbs and the total today was 702 cals and 62 carbs. I have feel okay, well I won't be throwing myself at any gym class this week. I am planning on doing this for a week with the 3 packs and a meal and then will move to a refeed programme as of next Saturday, which gives me this week to read up and shop for what I need. Don't worry I won't be doing 4 packs a day again, and thank you for the advice.
 
I totally agree with caz. It would be dangerous to carry on. Please contact slim and save and ask their advice on what to do next and whilst your at it please go to the doctors and get a check up.

Remember your heart is a muscle.
 
Is there any particular reason why you don't want to start the refeed now? You'll still lose on it! If you want to keep doing the 3 packs and a meal for another week then I recommend that you add in extra protein. Don't be afraid to start, you've done amazingly to get to where you are and I'm sure that you'll be just fine refeeding and doing maintenance. Have faith in yourself :)
 
Caz said:
They're not meant to do it as a complete food replacement though, that's against government guidelines. With Cambridge, once you hit a BMI of 25 you could carry on but you had to add in a meal, up to 810 calories a day I think. So still a LCD but not officially a VLCD with total food replacement.

Slim and Save say "It is essential you are in good health and have a BMI of over 25 to follow this programme" in relation to 4 packs a day.
Optifast say that to follow the Phase 1 450-800 calorie phase you should have a BMI of 27 or above, otherwise follow 800-1000 Phase 2.
Cambridge say "Sole Source and Sole Source Plus can be used for rapid weight loss by people with a BMI of 25 plus one stone." Otherwise you follow the 810 plan or above.
Exante say that with a BMI of 25 or above, you should follow their Working or Simple solutions, which are 1000-1200 a day.

Wasn't just plucking the statement out of my head, honest :) NICE guidelines actually suggest a BMI of 30 or more for a VLCD.

And yet LL are quite happy for you to continue on total (4 packs no veg no milk) below 25 BMI as long as you started at over 30 BMI. If you start with less than 30 BMI then you do LL lite which is a LCD. Interesting how they all vary...
 
LL are the only ones that do that though and they're going against government/NICE guidelines vying letting people do that. I was trying to find information on their website but it didn't seem to tell you what their specific plans were... or maybe I just didn't look properly.
 
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Death rate!!??? Ppl die doing it?? Or am I reading that wrong lol x

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