10 months for body to "reset it's memory" Fact - or myth?

[Jenmac]

Fascinating thread!
There is so much pseudo science and downright poppycock peddled on the subject of weight, it's very hard to see the wood for the trees.
I suppose that a lot of people have an interest in keeping it that way, as they wouldn't be able to make as much money if people didn't feel worthless because of their weight, and also if there was a one- time "silver bullet" that made people the weight they wanted, that would cut down on the market too.

 

[KD]

WG - can you sticky the thread please? I think it's a really important reference for people.

I'll sticky it, but will add something on a more positive note in a mo.

 

[KD]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica] So, we have this outdated evolutionary things that may drive us to overeat in case of times of famine. We are highly unlikely to ever need it.

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]So whether it resets in a few months, or a few years, or maybe never, it's okay....don't panic
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]
Against Nature?:

BUT, we are human and that gives us the ability to think rationally. We go against nature all the time. Teens are forced to go against their bodyclocks which tell them to lie in until midday when the school wants them in first thing in the morning.

People chose not to have children. Certain religions chose to be celibate or have periods of fasting.

Most of us drink alcohol, and some to extremes. We eat junk that are bodies aren't designed to eat.

I don't suppose any of us truly go through one day doing everything as nature intended.

Fortunately, how we think and the habits we can get into can completely overide natural instincts. It's really no big deal.

I know that I've changed my lifestyle, what I eat and when. I've changed by whole attitude to food. You could say most of the time, I'm following as nature indended to a certain extent. More unprocessed foods etc, but more importantly by putting food in it's rightful place, as in eat what I need to supply energy for the day/week.

Even if the hormones drive us to want more, with practice we can overide all that and after a while maintain our weight relatively easily. It just takes a bit of extra care and finding a way that we can live with.

We are not doomed. It's not going to be an eternal nightmare with a life of deprivation and it certainly gets so much easier with practice
[/FONT]

 

[Sean(JSF)]

Thanks KD, f##d for thought indeed

 

[nexangelus]

Agreed KD, didn't mean it to be a negative post, just thought I's share what I found as it had been mentioned so I decided to look it up properly...Of course it isn't ALL gloom and doom, because we have the rationality and reasoning to change our lifetstyles and try things that counteract what the body is trying to do...and I don't think it is a major struggle either...well hopefully not...so far it has been fun for me adjusting my lifestyle and making choices that will improve my chances of maintaining my weight...even if my setpoint never resets to where I want it...

 

[loved-up]

Thank you all for this thread, I have found it utterly fascinating

I don't know enough about the subject to contribute, though I'm enjoying learning

I do have an opinion on one thing though, and that is how your 'frame of mind' can influence how you view the information. If I had read this thread even a few months ago I would have found it so depressing, I would have thought 'what's the point?' and 'life's too short to be miserable, struggling over food for years' and probably 'whats the point of slogging my guts out trying to lose all this weight if there's practically no chance of me keeping it off' BUT now I am so focused on my end goal (getting to and staying at a healthy weight) that the information gives me hope..........5 years of maintaining can it much more likely to maintain forever? Then bring it on, the last 5 years have flown by being obese I'm sure the next 5 maintaining will fly by too

Knowing that there are biological factors at play helps to know it's not all in the mind, but more importantly just knowing it CAN be done, that information is more precious than anything and I can't begin to thank the 'maintainers' on here enough for showing me that

 

[slendablenda]

Don't forget................

We only hear about the people who struggle and put the weight back on. At least they are aware and come back to try again.
The people who are successful and do maintain will probably want to move on eventually and not need to come back here. They'll be too busy getting on with their "slim" lives.
But yes, we would always welcome a visit from them to tell us how they manage it!
I see you are "loved up" that positive feeling will help you while you are lsoing your weight.
Lucky Jack Sparrow. Good luck.
:welcome2:

 

[KD]

Knowing that there are biological factors at play helps to know it's not all in the mind, but more importantly just knowing it CAN be done,

Yep. Good one. I was just thinking, when you said that once it would have made you depressed. That confused me a moment as I don't see anything depressing about it at all.

Then I read more of your message and remembered the 'zone'. You know, that click.

When you get to a point where you start dieting and feels different. It's not such a struggle because you want it more than ever. Things don't get in the way, and if they do, you push them to one side. Not because you feel you must. Not even with regret. You push them aside because they are getting in the way of you getting what you want.

The facts are that many people don't succeed at maintaining. We can't get away from that, but understand why it went wrong for them (and where I went wrong), helps me work out how to get it right this time.

This time, I could see what was going on. I didn't need to beat myself up for being greedy, and hating myself for overeating. Instead I could just say "ahhhh, that'll be the leptin thingy" "That's okay...I can deal with that. I don't have to 'feed' it" I also used many tools to help me get out of the 'habit' of compulsive eating, which may well be triggered by the hormones (who knows)

I love maintaining. I love not having to diet anymore. Not having that pressure. It was wonderful having that tool to get me to goal, but it's done the job, now I stay firmly here because that's what I want.

 

[slendablenda]

Thank heavens you do KD

I think you've hit the nail on the head. One of the most important factors is how much you want it.
For me it will be the self-awareness aspect, understanding why I allowed myself to hide behind that fat for all those years and giving myself permission to move on and get on with my life.

 

[thin_inside]

Wow - My mind is racing after trying to take in the whole thread in one hit.

Seven weeks into LL I still have urges to eat food although I don't hit a temptation level that would actually make me follow that through. I have a lot of weeks left on the foodpacks and I don't see this as a problem. However, I have been concerned about how I will cope when I get back to real food and onto maintenance if the urge is still to overeat and I am free to chose my meals.

This thread has given me an insight into how my body might respond and the thought processes I will need to work on developing to be able to maintain. I'm now completely intrigued to learn more about this and am off to the library to see whether the books are available.

Thanks everyone

 

[jennikay]

Just read this and found it rather interesting.

My boyfriend just can't fathom why I want to eat when I'm not hungry, and I don't understand how food isn't on his mind 24/7

Out of interest, KD, do you know if the time taken to reach a new setpoint is less if you're younger? (pretty please say yes )

x

 

[KD]

Out of interest, KD, do you know if the time taken to reach a new setpoint is less if you're younger? (pretty please say yes )

x

The longer you are at a setpoint, the more 'stuck' it will be. I don't know whether there is any threshold there though.

But it sounds logical to me that if you haven't been on your 'bigger setpoint' for as long, you'll get down to the new one with more ease.

On another note, haven't read anything scientific to support this (or not support it), but I think we often have different setpoints along the way.

I know that when I was on the 'up', I sort of hovered for a while around the 13st mark. Then again at the 15 stone mark, and another at the 18st 12 mark. At each point, I could have probably stayed there without too much trouble, but by the time I was bigger, I had already made a fair few bad connections; forming new poor eating and lifestyle habits, which pushed it up further.

When I lost weight, it was those marks (with non VLCD diets), that I had huge plateaus. So they appeared to be my various setpoints.

Something to remember though. As girls, we reach out natural setpoint at about 18 years old....assuming we haven't already raised it by then with poor eating habits.

Biologically, left to its own devices our setpoint goes up about a pound every year for the next 20 years. It's due to natural cell disintergration or something it doesn't work so well. But it is very precise and turns out that our bodies desire an extra 10 calories a day, either by slowing the metabolism a little, or asking us to eat more

Of course, 10 calories a day is nothing. We are talking about needing equal to one jellybean less a day to STS. Unfortunately, pregnancy changes the body setpoint, and then childrens dinners need finishing up Around the house for longer and often in charge of the cupboard contents and shopping. It's not surprising that we push that body setpoint up unnaturally.

What was the question again Jenni (scrolls back up)...oh yes, think I've answered it.

"Yes....probably" ...but remember that you may need to take into account the extra pound a year since you were 18, to find your natural one.

 

[nexangelus]

What happens if you were underweight for about the same amount of time you have been overweight? I know it doesn't balance it out, obviously, just a silly question as I was very underweight as a teen and until I was about 21...

Saying all this though and repeating myself again, with experimenting this week and the last month or two or so, my set point is defo around the 9 stone 6 mark which I am pretty pleased with, I thought I would've done my body way more damage to be honest (with the underweight/overweight thing)...it loves being this weight and moreover I actually feel comfy at this weight...whooo! Mental/physical milestone reached methinks...

 

[KD]

What happens if you were underweight for about the same amount of time you have been overweight? I know it doesn't balance it out, obviously, just a silly question as I was very underweight as a teen and until I was about 21...

I would have thought that unless you manipulated your diet for some reason, being underweight might actually be your normal body setpoint. Of course, it might not be now, even though you have 'manipulated' your diet because of the age thing.

If you changed your diet to make yourself underweight, then I suppose you could make a new 'natural' body setpoint there. Would take a while though and might not be the best thing as being unnaturally slim can unhealthy too.

..it loves being this weight and moreover I actually feel comfy at this weight...whooo! Mental/physical milestone reached methinks...

:clap: It's good to find your right weight isn't it. Everything sort of feels 'right'

 

[jennikay]

"Yes....probably" ...but remember that you may need to take into account the extra pound a year since you were 18, to find your natural one.

What if I was 12 stone at 17 years old, and now I'm 18, I'm about 10 stone?
It can't be that because I was 9st 5 on my 18th, that's my setpoint though I do appear to be easily able to maintain 9st 5 (up until I pigged out for my entire birthday week and have shot up to 10st )

Hmm, confused. I did seem to have a set point around 10st and around 9st 5, though obviously I don't know if I did the first time around, because I wan't bothered about my weight then!

May try to get back to 9st 5

x

 

[KD]

What if I was 12 stone at 17 years old, and now I'm 18, I'm about 10 stone?
It can't be that because I was 9st 5 on my 18th, that's my setpoint though I do appear to be easily able to maintain 9st 5 (up until I pigged out for my entire birthday week and have shot up to 10st )

Hmm, confused. I did seem to have a set point around 10st and around 9st 5, though obviously I don't know if I did the first time around, because I wan't bothered about my weight then!

May try to get back to 9st 5

x

Unfortunately, it's not as easy as saying my setpoint is X because that is what it was at 18, as there are so many variables.

When I say 'manipulated' your diet (way of eating), I don't mean necessarily 'you'. So many other things come into play.

Your setpoint may influence your decision about what to eat and when, but for many years you may not have had a lot of choice over these things. Head rules first. For example, out with friends, wanting to be one of the crowd= possibly eating more than your hormones are telling you

Family social times when you may have been encouraged to eat more than your body wanted etc

The setpoint is only one factor amongst many.

You can influence your setpoint up and down to a certain extent, but left alone to its own devices, it'll be about 18 when your setpoint is set for adulthood (plus the lowering as you get older)

 

[vicky_r]

Hmmmn... this is very interesting reading. I will try not to let it get me down, the thought that I will forever have to watch what I eat... but I guess I already knew that. I just hope it does get easier... rightnow I can see myself still making all sorts of wrong choices, even if I know why I might be making them and that they are wrong. Hopefully the "angel" onm y shoulder will win out when I go into RTM though, and beat down the "devil's" cries to gorge on bad food...

 

[KD]

I remember I looked thru some pages, and it was said there resetting memory isn't a myth. But I don't know whether it's true....

Scientists appear to be divided so we just don't know whether the setpoint resets to the lower weight, or not.

Trouble is, it's so hard to test. How much of a persons control over food after a few years is down to resetting of leptin and various other hormones, or new habits, lifestyle etc?

I have talked to a number of very qualified experts and opinions differ as to how much can be put down to a successful maintainers new accepted weight, or whether they've just got a handle on the whole maintenance thing....or a mix of both.

There has been some talk recently of leptin injections being available for people who had got to healthy weight after losing a lot, to help them maintain. For a long time scientists were looking at giving these injections to help people lose the weight in the first place, but it doesn't work well as overweight people can become resistant to the leptin. So, new talk of hope for maintainers.

That would be wonderful, but I don't think it will happen in my lifetime.

 

[Minerva]

I think, the whole body resetting point is ... well probably down to the individual.

Personally, I STILL can't tell whether I'm full or not so I have had to LEARN to consciously LOOK at my portion on the plate and assess whether it's too much and to keep track of how much I eat when I'm at one of those 'buffet' parties. Your stomach shrinks a bit though after a long diet - which helps a bit with the 'can't physically stuff any more in' bit...

I did find that weight point where everything felt 'right' at about 9st, but I know I have that stupid gene which makes me seek food ALL the damn time for no real reason; which prehistorically would have been the one to prepare me for times of famine...! My dad is the same, he yo-yo diets with it and doesn't let it get too bad anymore.

Even after nearly 3 years of LL, calorie counting, maintenance etc, I still feel hungry and full at the same time, which has never changed, so I have to always think about what and how much I eat on a very conscious level. ... I do really wish I had that magical thing that stops me eating any more than I have to! You live and you learn though, eh...

 

[Debbi8489]

On another note, haven't read anything scientific to support this (or not support it), but I think we often have different setpoints along the way.

I know that when I was on the 'up', I sort of hovered for a while around the 13st mark. Then again at the 15 stone mark, and another at the 18st 12 mark. At each point, I could have probably stayed there without too much trouble, but by the time I was bigger, I had already made a fair few bad connections; forming new poor eating and lifestyle habits, which pushed it up further.

When I lost weight, it was those marks (with non VLCD diets), that I had huge plateaus. So they appeared to be my various setpoints.

I've just read the whole thread. This is all new to me. I havent heard about leptin etc.

The part that I have quoted has very much been my experience. I find it completely fascinating, but infuriating that after dieting for 25 years I didnt know!!!