Atkins/VLCD mix

[poogatch]

Has anyone ever tried doing this? I've just finished my first week of doing my own twist to low carbing and have found it quite interesting. I'm basically doing an Atkins/VLCD mix with 1 or 2 VLCD packs a day for the super amounts of nutrients and then 1 or 2 (pending the pack numbers) meaty snacks/meals with some salad thrown in.

It's basically a way for me to eat, get the nutrients I need and keep the calories bordering on VLCD level (easily under 1000 a day). The first few days where tough and I was still a little hungry from time to time until day 6 but now tbh I could easily not eat a thing I'm not hungry at all

I'm being careful to make sure I'm getting enough nutrients and I wasn't sure how it would work as the VLCD packs are high in carbs compared to atkins especially induction but I'm definately in Ketosis (Ketostix agree and no hunger etc) it something I've got experience of so I know I am in it.

Was curious if anyone had ever thought about/tried doing it. My thinking behind it is I can eat desirable food whilst getting enough nutrients AND the kicker is keeping the cals low because at the end of the day you only lose as much weight as your body is in calorie deficit no matter what diet you are doing so it should be a faster version of atkins. That's what I'm hoping for anyway

 

[moonlights]

Doing your own mix isn't necessarily something I'd advise - a calorie isn't a calorie in Atkins terms and you need to be eating enough fat for the Atkins part to be fully effective, while that would probably throw off the vlcd's maximum benefits.

Several VLCDs offer an option where you have the full amount of daily meal packs plus a low fat lean protein and vegetable meal in the evening. That's the approved way of adding food to a vlcd. It sounds similar to your plan so it's probably worth doing it as your diet recommends.

Or you could do Atkins and take a multivitamin - as the book recommends - to be sure you're getting optimum nutrition.

I'd recommend either approved method over a compile your own version. That said if you're eating 1000 calories a day then you are going to lose weight, yes, and probably faster than doing Atkins. But if you're only having one food based meal per day then you really really should be looking at your VLCD's recommendations for how many packs to add. I think it's usually 3 to 4 packs plus one meal. Just to make sure your intake is safe for you.

Good luck with it!

 

[poogatch]

Depends on the VLCD for packs per day, I'm using Exante ones which you only need 3 of without eating food so 2 Plus food and veg is plenty

A calorie is a calorie on Atkins and any other diet, the only way to lose weight is your body burns more calories than it takes in. It's claimed diets like Atkins assist this by increasing your metabolic rate by some but I don't think that has ever been proven but even if it is true it still comes down to calorie intake - calories burned = defecit and thus the amount of weight lost (3.5k calories per lb of fat or there abouts I think). If you was on Atkins and ate 3k calories a day unless your body burnt more than 3k a day you wouldn't lose a thing and would put weight on, maybe not at the beginning but that would just be weight lost from your glycogen stores being used up due to low carbs.

Both VLCD's and Atkins are Ketogenic diets but do it slightly differently, the carb count on atkins is lower to induce ketosis where as a VLCD uses a lowish carb with the addition of very limited calories. I was curious if somewhere in between would be ketogenic and it is, atleast for me anyway. I don't want to do the VLCD + High protein route which is why I chose this, for the time being anyway. I guess I'm seeing if I can have my cake and eat it

 

[losingit]

I've noticed that calories on Atkins are broadly self-limiting once in ketosis. Even though allowed to eat unlimited amounts, it's pretty hard to eat 2500 or more calories a day on Atkins (well, unless all i ate was cream, yumm... but i'd get sick fast!). It gets even harder once ketosis kicks in due to the appetite suppression. Whenever i add up my total calories it is nearly always below 1800 a day yet i'm left feeling full and satisfied (1800 calories on any other diet is enough to have my body crying out for more).

Another thing to consider with Atkins / high protein diets is that it is harder for the body to process the kinds of foods you have to eat... in particular with meat i think it 'costs' your body something like a third of the total calories eaten just to digest and process the food in your guts... so 1000 calories of steak for instance offers something more like 667 calories of available energy. Not sure if i read this in the atkins book or somewhere else, but i like it .

 

[Kat1e]

I have to both agree and disagree with the calorie point - although technically correct (calories/energy burnt law of thermodynamics) it doesn't take into account the way your body deals with food (very complicated!)

Taubes analogy is that yes if more people come into a room than leave then the room fills up but all of us would ask why are people coming in or not, staying or leaving! Atkins is similar - you burn the calories differently.

As example - on low carbs i can eat loads more calories - have tons of energy and probably naturally burn it off. On high carbs i'm lethargic and slow down so burn less...as well as being hungrier for food.

Recommend you read (or see you tube) for gary taubes "why we get fat" - fascinating

Overall agree with ML - strong recommendation to follw standard path if going VLCD - if low carb then ok to have a personal plan.
Good luck

 

[poogatch]

The point I was trying to make is that if while I'm doing low carb my calorie intake is lower then I will lose more weight, both Atkins and VLCD use ketosis so the extra energy move about more thing is irrelevant to that and I maybe clouded the issue saying "to any other diet". I know what you are saying and agree it could definitely be a factor (and why high calorie intake on Atkins can still lead to weight loss).

I've lost 6lbs this week and I'm struggling to get the urge to eat anything to be truthful! Hunger is well and truly suppressed. Still trying to get 1 pack of VLCD down my neck a day for the extra vitamins etc and taking a multivitamin supplement every day too to be on the safe side plus eating once a day minimum, otherwise I'd be on 200 calories a day and I think is a bit extreme!

It's working for me and I feel that with the supplement and the VLCD packs with high nutritional value I'm getting a good amount of the good stuff, probably ten times better than before I was dieting too haha.

 

[stubbsey]

What is VLCD?

 

[moonlights]

Very low calorie diet. It's a diet where you replace all food with nutrient enriched milkshakes/bars etc.

Again I do have to disagree, I see plenty of people get into the habit of eating too little on Atkins (as appetite is so reduced) and actually stall. Myself included during a phase where I was only getting 800-900 cals a day. I now eat 1300-1500 a day, sometimes more, and lose better than I did then. I also lose better than when I was calorie counting and eating 1200 cals a day - which is what all the calculators tell me I should eat to lose 2lbs a week. Yet on Atkins I often lose 2 - 3lbs eating more.

I appreciate you want to lose more than that weekly, and ultimately with a huge calorie deficit you have to lose, although I worry that losing more than that weekly means you'll lose a higher percentage of muscle mass over fat. If I was trying it, I'd stick with the vlcd add a meal rules to be safe and have the number of packs they recommend, but if you're happy, feel good and feel its working for you then it's not my call

NB: vlcd doesn't use ketosis, technically. Ketosis is a side effect of 'starvation diets' that suppresses appetite but that's the main effect. That's why vlcd packs can be quite high in carbs - you still end up in ketosis by calorie deficit alone.