Michael Mosley Eat, Fast and Live Longer on BBC
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DeeCe
Silver Member
Elisheba said:
I started fasting, I don't indulge like that on non-fast days, I eat lots of vegetables, fruit & meat... but there is leeway to have a portion of something you fancy. Tbh it's each to their own & that was that person's choice.
My trainer warned me about high protein/low carb diets, you can lose a lot of muscle rather than fat even when you are working out, especially if you only do cardio... & I think if you research Mon is right, I may be wrong but excessive protein can be stored the same as excessive carbs and fat. But also too little fat is bad you need it for digestion and someone I know recently had their gallbladder removed due to too little fat in the diet...
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DeeCe
Silver Member
GrumpyWino said:
I exercised five times a week, Pilates, cardio & weights... tbh I think where my diet was rich in vegetables & meat and healthy fats to keep me full, the fasting didn't affect me much..& I feel like the days fasting gives my body time to digest all food fully... I did Pilates on a fast day and planned in a banana before for quick release carbs & a protein shake afterwards.. plus if you plan it's amazing how much nutritious and filling veg you can have for very few calories...
moonlights
Gold Member
Back when Iwas researching diets everything I read told me the opposite re: high protein diets. You lose fat over muscle in a much greater percentage on a ketogenic diet (one that involves being in ketosis ie: high pro low carb) than a low calorie one because ketosis switches your metabolism to burn fat as fuel and because you are able to eat to satiety so you are never in famine, therefore the body never needs to cannibalize its muscles.
This is true for the low carb versions of ketogenic diets of course, not the very low calorie ones which are a different thing. Perhaps your trainer was confused and meant VLCDs.
This is true for the low carb versions of ketogenic diets of course, not the very low calorie ones which are a different thing. Perhaps your trainer was confused and meant VLCDs.
GrumpyWino
Full Member
I'm with moonlights on this, I did a lot of research too, mostly academic papers via google scholar having read the likes of Barry Groves and Gary Taubes. Once I reach conso I need to work on getting the fat balance right while staying low carb so as to maintain my fat loss without losing more. Incidently ketogenic diets are popular with body builders, especially when they are 'cutting'!
DeeCee thanks for your reply. Sadly my body, given my love of long distance running and working really tough shifts has never coped well when I have been too busy to eat, effectively fasting, I end up overly tired, and get colds and even put on a few pounds. But I was interested to hear others experiences. Any shift workers here? We usually do long shifts and are very sleep deprived!
DeeCee thanks for your reply. Sadly my body, given my love of long distance running and working really tough shifts has never coped well when I have been too busy to eat, effectively fasting, I end up overly tired, and get colds and even put on a few pounds. But I was interested to hear others experiences. Any shift workers here? We usually do long shifts and are very sleep deprived!
DeeCe
Silver Member
moonlights said:
She definitely said high protein/low carb/low fat & I have been doing a lot of nutritional research lately that supported it. Personally when I did Dukan I felt terrible after a few months, I did a lot of exercise then too but always felt 'flabby' but now I feel more toned and can see muscle definition. Dukan is a low calories diet, in a way, well I assume for most people, because the lack of fat/carb makes it hard to reach 1200 (the minimum calorie intake your body needs a day) especially on a pp day.. and your body can produce amino acids etc with too much protein not balanced with fat/carb. But boys builders more use Atkins type diets.. my boyfriend is on one a lot healthy than Dukan + we're on body building forums... lol in contrast I have read Gary Taubes & the like contradict themselves & are not proper nutritionists but that is internet hearsay...
I don't slate Dukan, it helped me shift a lot but maybe where I didn't have much to lose in the first place, my body was so unhealthy & it all really affected me..
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GrumpyWino
Full Member
Could you post links to the research you mention, I'd love to take a look, thanks!
DeeCe
Silver Member
GrumpyWino said:
I'll try to find some, I read a lot in books at the library
I'll add my boyfriend high protein cut diet involves nuts, veg or salad at a meal, and protein shakes rather than just animal protein, plus a banana. & this was devised by his trainer.. body builders look for all sources of proteins
DeeCe
Silver Member
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catcommand2.htm
This is good in regards to what I said about body builders & fat, also the bit on muscle wasting (especially with cardio). Body builders increase protein to 1g 1.5g per body lb/kg I think, on Dukan you probably surpass
Going back to what Mon said as well, these are body builders the protein they consume is constantly used so the body does not tap into their stores because they are using their muscles often. Most on Dukan aren't body builders so what happens to the excess protein?
This is good in regards to what I said about body builders & fat, also the bit on muscle wasting (especially with cardio). Body builders increase protein to 1g 1.5g per body lb/kg I think, on Dukan you probably surpass
Going back to what Mon said as well, these are body builders the protein they consume is constantly used so the body does not tap into their stores because they are using their muscles often. Most on Dukan aren't body builders so what happens to the excess protein?
GrumpyWino
Full Member
Very good point, lets not forget the forum we are on!
DeeCe
Silver Member
Someone posted this on,a body building forum:
Unless you're caloric intake is far below your maintanence I don't think a high protein low fat diet would even put you in ketosis. Most of the protein would just be converted into glucose and liver glycogen. Also, I think what arnold suggests about your body using muscle protein for fuel when you are in ketosis is wrong. In fact I think your body would be more likely to burn protein for fuel when you aren't in ketosis. I say this because when you are in ketosis your body is burning ketones (duh) in place of glucose. Ketones come from fat not protein. The only protein that would be burned would be to supply your brain with the 30g of glucose it needs per day. When you aren't in ketosis however, but are still consuming little to no carbs, and lots of protein, your body is obviously takeing proteining and turning it into glucose. And if you are eating less calories than you burn (aka cutting), then some of that protein will be muscle protein.
Makes sense. And google .. rabbit starvation.
Like I said I'm not against Dukan lol, I just think fat is important and so are veg & fruit everyday.. I don't think you can compare to body builders & their diets
Unless you're caloric intake is far below your maintanence I don't think a high protein low fat diet would even put you in ketosis. Most of the protein would just be converted into glucose and liver glycogen. Also, I think what arnold suggests about your body using muscle protein for fuel when you are in ketosis is wrong. In fact I think your body would be more likely to burn protein for fuel when you aren't in ketosis. I say this because when you are in ketosis your body is burning ketones (duh) in place of glucose. Ketones come from fat not protein. The only protein that would be burned would be to supply your brain with the 30g of glucose it needs per day. When you aren't in ketosis however, but are still consuming little to no carbs, and lots of protein, your body is obviously takeing proteining and turning it into glucose. And if you are eating less calories than you burn (aka cutting), then some of that protein will be muscle protein.
Makes sense. And google .. rabbit starvation.
Like I said I'm not against Dukan lol, I just think fat is important and so are veg & fruit everyday.. I don't think you can compare to body builders & their diets
Paulinegin
Gold Member
walruswoman said:
Hi Walrus
There's loads of ADFs over on the JUDDD forum, come and join us
P x
GrumpyWino
Full Member
I was hoping to see links to peer reviewed academic research papers, that tends to be what I base my opinion on, as I have an academic background. Google scholar is first rate for this, for those without access to academic online libraries.
Julie2011
Silver Member
I also thought eating burgers and chips was a really bad food choice as well, but I think it was to emphasise that this was the normal diet of the people who undertook the study, and that anyone no matter what their diet could benefit from alternate day fasting. Krista Varady only picked at her burger, but Michael Mosley ate all of his his. Although I am pretty sure he was making healthier choices once he got home, he still had the health benefits at the end of 5 weeks.
willbefabulousat26
Likes to Dukan
Hi GW,
I too am a runner and shift worker. I love being able to eat on Dukan. Couldn't manage without my 3am omelette to keep me going!
Julie2011
Silver Member
Ha ha. It's true isn't it. I laughed and laughed when I read that because it's my feed day today and I've just eaten a banana with my porridge. Some people say feast day and fast day but the conotations with feasting probably sends out the wrong message. It's just eat normally on your eating day and healthy choices are best. You're right, it's not a true fast. You can have one meal of 400-500 cals (women) or 600 cals men on the fast day. The JUDDDD type diet is not for everyone, and diets really are horses for courses. The main thing is to have something you are happy with and can stick to for the long term, not just for the weight loss but for the maintenance. I'm a failed dieter, or rather I'm a failed maintainer. I've lost weight with Atkins to Weightwatchers and pretty much every diet in between, but I've always regained it and then some. I getting to the age now that I don't want to be in line for future diseases due to heredity predisposition but excerbated by my obesity. Alternate Day Fasting seems the best method for someone like me to start getting the health benefits within a few months of starting the diet and the ongoing weight loss. I'm going to try and stick to it for at least 6 months so peope can see how I get on. I probably won't lose weight as fast as people on other diets, especially the VLCD ones but it ADF is one that suits my lifestyle.
I can see why people love the Dukan diet, but after really struggling with Atkins for years it's not for me. Plus, due to my age, I want to get my body in repair mode rather than go-go mode. I have a friend who lost a lot of weight on Dukan and she looks great, so I can see why people do it. I can see you've lost over 100lb which is absolutely fantastic. I hope to be close to my goal in a year, so here's hoping.
Have a fab week everyone
Julie
