mixed grill theory?

[babyblues]

if this diet works by cutting out carbohydrates to induce ketosis, why cant we have the OCCASIONAL meat fest like a mixed grill? doesnt do atkins any harm.

so why is it if people need a break, they are adviced to eat a measly small amount of chicken and 2 tables spoons of leaves....?

i understand the limitations as far as trying not to induce a binge, but why do people talk about it in terms of ketosis?

sorry if this has been asked 40xs before!

bb

 

[LizzMB]

its about Ketosis AND being a Very low cal diet.....red meat especially may have no carbs, but is high in calories so it would defeat the object and cause weight loss to slow right down. Also, the fat in Red meat is a lot higher than in Chicken/turney etc.

If you want to eat a mixed grill occassionally, then thats your call hun, but it will show on the scales i'm afraid.

hth

xxx

 

[lola123]

Good answer to a question I was ready to ask, makes totally sense x thanx lizz

 

[slimmeplease]

yeah its cos red meat is fatty! i so want a mixed grill now yummy. im gonna make my partner one for tea and im gonna sniff if x

 

[babyblues]

lol sniff it

ok, i get the part about high fat content. but chicken is low in fat & calories and the average breast (tee hee i said breast) is about 200g.

80g to me seems a bit drastic

 

[tillyfloss]

Thats the whole point of a VLCD, to keep it as a VLCD

the only reason you eat the 'measly' amounts is to bring the cals/ carbs up slightly either to suit the plan you are on or in the case of the 810 week, to raise your metabolism for a week to allow your body to recover a little as recommended by NICE guidelines.
TBH, when i was obese, i loved a mixed grill, loved a little too much maybe hence why I got obese... whilst I will eat fatty foods again it will be in moderation... But this plan is great for allowing you time away from those foods to see them for what they are...red meat/ sausages/ streaky bacon can be extremly high in cals and saturated fat, not the best food for getting and keeping us in good health. However as an occasional treat when we are fit and slim, it would be fine.
To eat this sort of food on any weightloss plan seems frutiless to me though as to me, it would mean I wouldn't be learning anything about being able to control my cravings.. like on SW I ate lots of these foods and didn't change my eating habits at all, therefore all the weight went back on.
This diet is for such a short time of our lives in the grand scheme of things, many of us have let our bodies get into a terrible state and to be granted the science and know how to get weight off this quickly, in such a short time is a gift to me....
CD has been formulated to work and work it does.... but we do have to make sacrifices. we just have to decide whether they are sacrifices worth making... for me weight loss verses high fat food no contest
good luck with your own weightloss journey

x

 

[Lexie_dog]

where are you getting 80g from?

My ss+ allowance for chicken (and thats the lowest plan) is 120g and thats 33% more.

It might be low in calories but its got to be low enough to keep in you in calorie induced ketosis, which is under 800cals (roughly for most people), so time you have 3 shakes (450 cals) plus a 200 cal meal (650cals all in) you are doing SS+

You add a 400 cal meal then thats you up to 810 limits.

a calorie is a calorie is a calorie, whilst some may provide better nutritional content, you body still uses the energy in the same way.

Protein takes longer to digest, whereas fat and carbs are metabolised by your body more quickly but it still knows its calories!

Plus Atkins is Atkins, its not CD. Just like SW isnt WW, and CD isnt any of them.

 

[Lexie_dog]

edited to merge

 

[babyblues]

certainly some food for thought.

just like to add, that im not thinking of indulging on a meat fest. just massaging my curiosity.

i was not aware there was such a thing as calorie induced ketosis :S

 

[tillyfloss]

its not calore indueced it is carb induced...
if your body desnt have enough carbs to burn for energy, the next thing it turns to for energy is fat... hence ketosis!

x

 

[Lexie_dog]

A vlcd like CD/LT/LL is designed to safely maximize the 'calorie gap' this is the difference between the calories you use and the calories you eat. It provides appropriate amounts of all the essential nutrients your body needs each day in a minimum number of calories.

The average person uses up about 2000 calories energy each day so the difference between energy used up and energy eaten means that the body's reserve stores of sugar and fat are drawn on to meet the body's needs.

In this way body weight is lost.

You are not actually living on reduced calories, you are only changing the place the calories come from.

The body, when not dieting, uses mostly sugar for energy rather than fat. The sugar content of the diet is kept deliberately low so that the body's own sugar stores get used up quickly. Fat then becomes the major source of energy.

Ketosis:

When fat is burned rapidly, the body produces substances from the fat called 'ketones' and the person is said to be in 'ketosis'. The mild ketosis produced by the diet formula has a number of advantages for dieters: hunger is reduced and a feeling of well-being is often experience.

Ketones can be detected in the urine of dieters and provides encouragement than body fat is being burned. Ketones can sometimes be detected on the breath. This is only temporary and can be reduced by adequate water intake and mouth rinsing with a mouthwash (i.e. Oraldene, Listerine)

Because the low sugar level of the diet is critical to maintain ketosis, it is very important not to eat or drink anything else, apart from your daily serving of formula and approved drinks - even a nibble of apple, raw vegetables, milk in tea or coffee or merely a diet beverage may make you feel very hungry and you may find it very difficult to carry on.

Love Mini xxx

I apologise Tilly and babyblues. *hangs head in shame*

So I take it from that then consuming a 2000 cal mixed grill means your body would use that as a fuel source and not your own fat then.

You would also dump ketones (conversely your wee sticks would show a darker ketosis level than before) as your body/brain now has an alternate fuel source so doesn't need your ketones, so it can afford to dump them (I know this from Atkins days after cheating and weeing on ketostix)

 

[Katycakes]

What can I say? The replies so far say it all... just want to add, CD works. It REALLY does. If you stick to it... and that's why it has plans/steps/guidelines and rules, so we know the boundaries. I spent YEARS trying to lose weight by tweaking the rules on other diets, because I thought I somehow knew best... did it work? Like hell it did. None of us would be here if we didn't NEED a new start, some boundaries. We'd all be slinky slim on a diet of mixed grills, or cream cakes and choccy in my case... hmmm. In my dreams!

Great to raise the question, but if you are doing CD then you have to give it a chance... and that means sticking to the rules. Go for it!!!

xxx

 

[tillyfloss]

Lexie,
why hang head in shame... i thought it was just a typo
x
Well said Katie,...

And Baby whilst we all know that you wern't planning a carb fest, we have all heard of people who have gone on a meat fest purely becaue it worked for them on Atkins! They then find it really hard to come back to SS or SS+ because the psychological aspect of not eating is sometimes very hard to get into and for many of us subsequent try's is much harder than the first.

Yes absolutely lexie, your body would take the easiest form of digestion, in the absence of Glycogen it is fat first from the diet and then stored fat!

 

[babyblues]

ok, so im going to be annoying now....

another question ...

apart from the low calories, what is the fundamental difference between atkins and CD? why is that atkins dieters can also lose great amounts of weight whilst having such a high fat/calorie content?? its still ketosis after all.

 

[slimmeplease]

good question and i have no idea!!!!! x

 

[imagisal]

Thanks all for the great information, it really helps to understand what our bodies are doing and the reason for the rules...and the reasons why messing about with them throws things off track. I had a few nibbles last week and had begun with a little splash of milk in my coffee,managed to stop the silliness and the rest of the week was good. Just back from weigh in and still did 3lbs but am now re committing to doing 100%. Thanks again.

 

[Daiseydoo]

mmmm steak!!

 

[tillyfloss]

I think the answer to your question is that although the diet is generally high in fat it is often very very high in protein, I believe that protein actually supresses the appetite much faster than most other food groups, so you do in fact eat less than you think you are eating.
This on top of being in ketosis, means you eat less calories than what you are using therefore you will lose weight.

It's important to know that generally a diet high in saturated fat with fewer vitamins and minerals which is not balanced in anyway, is not a healthy diet to follow. If you continue eating high fat foods and learn nothing about your intake, then as soon as the appetite supressing affect of ketosis has gone, you will become very hungry, may continue eating those foods and may get fat again.
Also people who follow very high protein diet can end up with kidney problems.

Remember ALL diets where you are taking in less calories than you expend, will lose you weight, it is the healthy aspects of the diet we should all be interested. CD offers maximum nutrition with fastest weightloss so its win win!

x

 

[babyblues]

i think its aronic that MR Atkins died at a failr young age from a heart attack!

i by no means advocate the atkins diet. hence chosing lighter life. but thanks for answering my question problem solved

 

[KD]

i think its aronic that MR Atkins died at a failr young age from a heart attack!

to be fair, he was hardly young. He was 72

And he didn't die of a heart attack, though he had suffered from one in his past. He died after slipping on something and bashing his head...then went into a coma. Died two weeks later I think.