mixed grill theory?

[babyblues]

oh! must be an urban myth then. someone had told me he was in his late 50's/early 60's

cheers

 

[babyblues]

On April 8, 2003, at age 72, Dr. Atkins slipped on the ice while walking to work, hitting his head and causing bleeding around his brain. He lost consciousness on the way to the hospital, where he spent two weeks in intensive care. His death certificate states that the cause of death was "blunt impact injury of head with epidural hematoma".

curtousy of wikipedia

 

[Lexie_dog]

i think its aronic that MR Atkins died at a failr young age from a heart attack!

i by no means advocate the atkins diet. hence chosing lighter life. but thanks for answering my question problem solved

To be fair theres nothing wrong with Atkins, it can be a healthy diet if done properly. The key though is "properly". You do eat veggies etc on it, its not as unhealthy as urban Myth would suggest.

 

[natzmc]

its not calorie induced it is carb induced...
if your body doesn't have enough carbs to burn for energy, the next thing it turns to for energy is fat... hence ketosis!

x

don't mean to contradict but i was told and i read on here ketosis is not the process of your body burning the fat out its the process when your hunger pangs lessen, ketosis is the benefit of fat burning and in my opinion if you are solidly in it and feeling less hungry the more successful the diet

also about atkins diet, never have a seen a diet so highly criticized, eating that sheer amount of fatty food is just unhealthy, the weightloss is nearly always regained and its without structure, CD I think teaches healthy eating as well as weightloss and the step process is training you body and boosting your metabolism. i think the diet is more than just about weightloss, its a life changing experience

 

[tillyfloss]

Ketosis is actually the process of a body burning fat and one of the beneficial side effects for us is that the appetite reduces.
You can diet and loose weight without being in Ketosis, but as you rightly say it is much easier if you have the benefit of not feeling hungry which we would definitely be on such a small amount of calories.
But Ketosis is most definitely the process of fat burning unless everything I leanred during my studies was somehow wrong :O

As for Atkins, I do agree that atkins can be done healthiuly, but I do think that many people do it, do not choose healthy options, and hence it gets a very bad press. as for the learnign process of CD, that is one of the things I think this diet has above any other diet I have done! All of them I have never learnt to understand my emotional attachemnt to food until this time on CD

x

 

[tillyfloss]

Just had a quick peek to see if anything was written on CD site about Ketosis. For anyone who is intereste4d about what Ketosis is you can read about it here:
cambridge company history

x

 

[herewego]

Hi all - My understanding of why Atkins work even though more calories are consumed is that it's linked to the amount of insulin secreted.

To be honest I don't quite remember the science but I think insulin is required in order for our bodies to convert food (any food) to glucose that can then be used for energy. When you eat refined carbs a lot of insulin is secreted making it very easy for the body to convert the food into energy, whereas when you eat protein very little insulin is secreted and the body can therefore only use a small amount of the food (protein) consumed for energy and will use our fat stores for the rest (ketosis basically).

Tests have been done comparing low carb eaters consuming around 4000-6000 calories per day with a traditional low fat, calorie counted diet (1200 cals) and the low carb group lost as much weight as the calorie restricted diet and found it easier to stick to.

I think that Atkins done right can be a healthy diet, the problem is that people don't tend to follow the instructions and stay on the really strict induction period for longer than the recommended 2 weeks and then it becomes unhealthy.

I loved the Atkins while i was on it, but got greedy with the weight loss and stayed on induction for ages until it got too boring and I gave up...Also I really struggled with having to eat egg for breakfast every day...I really missed my toast!

I feel much better on CD though than I ever did on Atkins or any other diet for that matter!!

 

[Lexie_dog]

also about atkins diet, never have a seen a diet so highly criticized,

Every diet comes under critisim, including CD. CD in fact is a highly critised diet, just look on "Dooyoo".com to see just how much people who have tried it hate it so much. They did CD and gained all thier weight back and more too.

eating that sheer amount of fatty food is just unhealthy,

There is no "sheer" amount of fatty food on Atkins though, and the fats you are encouraged to eat are the good ones too, the coconut oil, the olive oils etc. The people who eat 4 fry ups a day aren't doing it properly. Hence all the Atkins misconceptions occur. The amount of people who just jump blindly in without reading the book and wonder why they get sick/see crap results never fails to depress me.

the weightloss is nearly always regained

As it is on Weight Watchers, CD, SW Scottish slimmers, in fact any diet the weight will be regained if you go back to eating as you did before

and its without structure,

Not true, very structured plan, 4 stages in all, each reintroducing the higher carbohydrate foods to work out where your maintenance point for carb tolerance is

CD I think teaches healthy eating as well as weightloss and the step process is training you body and boosting your metabolism. i think the diet is more than just about weightloss, its a life changing experience

True - but only if people follow it through.

couple of stolen menus from the Atkins board just to illustrate what I'm talking about. This is when its done properly.

100g natural yoghurt, 1tsp of linseeds and a sweetener (cinnamon and nutmeg) 4.2g NC
half a Atkins bar 1.1NC
coffee + cream 0.8 NC
egg quiche, spinach, nuts, spring onions, mushrooms and cheese + avo 1/4 - 5NC
half a Atkins bar 1.1NC
sprite zero 1.0 NC
tofu and vege 4.5 NC+1
TOTAL 17.7

and

b - bacon & scrambled egg
l - salad with Cardini italian dressing & cold roast beef
d - smoked mackerel & steamed veggies

Verus people who could perhaps add in more veggies to make up a higher carb allowance and think that Atkins is all English Breakfasts, packs of butter and drinking cream from the carton.

I know this is a CD board, and I apologise if its went awfully tangental, but I do feel its worth trying to correct/explain misunderstandings or myths where they arise.

Any of that make sense?

 

[tillyfloss]

This is really interesting I knew thay insulin was used to convert glucose to glycogen but didn't know the rest.
I am especially interested in the other bit about Atkins and why it works.
Thanks for that
x

 

[lemma1968]

All this science is giving me a headache!

Suffice to say, CD works if you follow it and don't fall off the wagon as much as I do. I'm practically covered in bruises (well fat actually) as a result of all my tumbles.

LL last year was ok until i had to come off it cos of a broken limb. Tillyfloss is right that it is MUCH harder second time round. Get into ketosis, reap the benefits, sod the science!

 

[tillyfloss]

lol @ lemma....

Thing is without knowing the science (some) people will get the wrong end of the stick and make decisions that might affect their weightloss...

I love the science

x

 

[KD]

Hi all - My understanding of why Atkins work even though more calories are consumed is that it's linked to the amount of insulin secreted.

I believe that the previous research was proved to have flaws. Newer research with what is known these days ie calorie misreporting, the value of protein in the diet, is considered more accurate.

I know most of my recent Atkins friends, agree about there being no metabolic advantage.

This is the the latest research that I could find on the subject.

Ketogenic low-carbohydrate diets have no metabolic advantage over nonketogenic low-carbohydrate diets -- Johnston et al. 83 (5): 1055 -- American Journal of Clinical Nutrition

 

[tillyfloss]

Thx KD

 

[KD]

But Ketosis is most definitely the process of fat burning unless everything I leanred during my studies was somehow wrong :O

Yep. Agreed there, though some people misinterpret this as meaning non ketosis means you aren't burning fat.

Which is probably where the misunderstanding comes.

 

[tillyfloss]

Kd, the conclusion of this report says that Ketogenic diets have some emotional and metabolic side effects, do you know what these are?
(mind you this study was only based on 20 people which doesnt seem many)

x

x

 

[KD]

Kd, the conclusion of this report says that Ketogenic diets have some emotional and metabolic side effects, do you know what these are?
(mind you this study was only based on 20 people which doesnt seem many)

x

x

No, 20 isn't many, but there have been other papers. Just this was the latest I could find.

As for emotional and metabolic side effects, yes...there's plenty in a roundabout way. I'm just about to give a couple of lessons, so must rush...but will be back

 

[JimmyShoo]

I have read this thread with much interest and for me CD is about abstinence on SS i think it is helping me because of ketosis think about food in a different way. Because i drink my fluids religiously and eat my recommended three packs a day i am not hungry but what i have discovered is i have so much more energy and have managed to do more this week than i usually do because i would usually be sat with laptop or in front of the tv munching on something totally unhealthy. So now i can reflect and assess my attitude to food, which is in the early stages. I ate a lot through boredom, and until i went through the first days of this abstinence i cannot tell you the last time i had hunger pangs or rumbles, this tells me i had issue's with food and i am going to continue to assess my old habits and work up the plans at the right points and end the vicious cycle i created.

On Atkins i continued to binge but on allowed foods which for me never broke the cycle just allowed me to eat other foods. So while i lost weight on the diet i never addressed the other issues i have with food because as soon as i stopped lo-carbing i piled the weight on.

Thats my take on both diets.....................just thought i would add my 3 penneth worth.

JS x

 

[charlie's_angel]

I've never really thought about the science behind all these diets - I just know the basics of how CD works etc. Very interesting thread!

 

[KD]

Kd, the conclusion of this report says that Ketogenic diets have some emotional and metabolic side effects, do you know what these are?
(mind you this study was only based on 20 people which doesnt seem many)

Right. finished work. Time to ramble

Firstly, about the 20. Yes, it's not many but I've found the less there is, the more accurate it can be. Good diet research is very expensive and because of this, research is often flawed.

The reason why it's so expensive is because people do misreport so chronically, that all food needs to be supplied and conditions met blah blah.

This report is good, because they did supply the food, and also I think had the folks in the 'lab' to eat Monday to Friday (or at least for some of those meals).

The other reason I like this research is that it was only carbs that were reduced. Most keto vs non keto research is based on reducing protein. In this study, they kept protein the same.

This is really important, because it isn't really established whether it's protein that reduces the hunger, or whether it's ketosis.

In this study, both groups reported a reduced hunger.

The metabolic and emotional side effects, I can only really guess at and I'm not totally in agreement with the findings. Emotional side effects being mood swings I should imagine...and feeling deprived of foods containing higher carbs. Very common in keto diets, but there again, higher carbs can cause blood sugar dips leading to cravings, and mood swings.

On on keto diet, it's not so easy to exercise, so that can make people low and reduce metabolic rate...there again, for some people their NEAT is raised (non exercise activity thermogenisis thingy)

Others are really tired on keto diets and become much more active on higher carbs.

A metabolic advantage: My opinion again Higher protein usually means less muscle loss. I think this study showed that keeping protein the same kept muscle mass the same (can't remember), but for most people doing a non keto diet, their protein would probably be less and so more likely to lose more lean. That would then indicate the opposite of what the study reports. There would be a metabolic advantage, but only because you would be preserving more lean mass, and hence would have burned more fat.

So...really depends on the person. What suits some, doesn't suit others.

BTW, much of the old research compared weight loss rather than fat loss.

I hate to say this, but people in general are looking for weight loss and very often don't care two hoots where the weight is coming from....water, fat, muscle..doesn't matter to them as long as the scales say they've lost.

Previous research often didn't take into account of the mass water loss at the beginning of a keto diet.

so...basically...no answers, because it just depends.

I do know that I couldn't have lost all this weight on a non keto diet or a diet too low in protein. Too much hunger, too many cravings. I also struggled to lose it on any other diet because it wasn't fast enough for me, and because of the cravings etc, I couldn't sustain it. Keto didn't really suit me in other ways, but combined with a VLCD it got me to goal, so I am truly grateful that it was available!

Ramble finished

Not sure if it made sense though

 

[tillyfloss]

it does make sense KD and thx for posting.. I think a lot of the mood stuff is hormonal as well.
The rate we lose fat, has to affect the hormones being released?

x