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Interesting discovery that can help understand why carbs are high in propoints!

on one of those websites that show you a video and promote their own diet systems I have found something that might be interesting and might explain why carbs are so high in propoints and also why people who eat a lot of carbs don't lose any weight under the new ww plan even if they follow it religiously.

Apparently, most bread, even wholewheat is not good for your sense of satiety, because it is too transformed into sugar in your body. Hence, foods that are advertised as "healthy" like porridge or cereals or brown bread, exactly like white bread increase the sugar in your blood over 90, which stimulate the production of insulin. This means that your body goes off the "fat burning zone" and goes in the "weight gain" zone, meaning that either you won't lose weight or could in fact put on. Besides, when insulin is released, your sense of satiety goes down very quickly, making you feel ravenous very soon. That's why even having 5 propoints of porridge in the morning you might feel ravenous after 2 hours.

Now, I think that this is the same principle with which propoints was thought. On that website they recommend as alternative to bread and wholewheat, sprouted grain bread which, apparently, does not get turned as much into sugar after you eat it. As carbs they also recommend rice, spelt, millet, quinoa, sweet potatoes and obviously all fruit and vegetables.

Funnily enough they also recommend proteins vs carbs, although they too point out that carbs need to be eaten in a healthy diet.

They also say that you must have fats in your diet too... or your body will hang to its own fat, but the "good" type of fats, not any fats.

Bad fats: hydrogenated oils, margarine, butter substitutes
Good fats: real butter, whole eggs, coconut oil, olive oil, avocado, raw nuts

They also recommend not to have processed foods. They say that if your liver is busy trying to get rid of the toxins found in processed foods and in the bad fats, then it won't work as hard to burn the fat your own body is storing. Hence, they recommend not to eat processed food, especially those prepackaged foods containing margarine, butter substitutes (which they say is not real food) and hydrogenated oils, but also anything that contains: artificial sweeteners (even splenda!), high content of fructose, corn syrup, processed soy products (yes even soy milk is a no no!)

Now, I won't spend $49 to buy their diet, but I found what they said very interesting and very similar to propoints, so I thought I'd share it with you guys There were things I didn't know, especially about whole wheat products, this sprouted grain bread and the processed soy products. I might stop eating cereals for breakfast and have something else instead... I'll look into what I can do from next week, it might be better for me!
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Also, from Excessive Insulin Levels Cause Health Problems

Insulin Levels and Health

As we have seen, when blood glucose levels get too high, insulin is released into the bloodstream by the pancreas to help disperse the glucose. The insulin transports the glucose to cells needing extra energy. The cells have "insulin receptors" positioned so that insulin can bind to them, facilitating glucose entry and utilization in the cells. Once inside the cells, the glucose is burned to produce heat and adenosine triphosyphate, (ATP) a molecule that stores and releases energy as required by the cell.

Overconsumption of High GI Carbs Maintains Excessively High Insulin

If we eat a diet that contains too many high GI carbs (carbs that are rapidly converted into blood glucose) we force our body to respond by releasing equally large amounts of insulin into our bloodstream to cope with the glucose. Over time this excessively high level of insulin can cause the "insulin-receptors" in our cells to become less sensitive to insulin.

Insulin Insensitivity

When cells become less sensitive to the effects of insulin, they accept less glucose, so more glucose than usual remains in the bloodstream. Result? The pancreas over-compensates by working harder and releasing even more insulin.

Health Consequences of Insulin Insensitivity

The combination of insulin-insensitivity and insulin over-production typically leads to one of two results:

Either, the pancreas gets worn out and insulin production slows down to abnormally low levels. Result? We develop type 2 diabetes. (About 30 percent of cases)

Or, the insulin-resistant patient doesn't develop diabetes (because the pancreas continues to produce sufficient insulin) but, instead, contracts hyperinsulinism (abnormally high levels of insulin in the blood), which can cause chronic obesity as well as high blood pressure, high levels of triglycerides, low HDL (good) cholesterol, heart disease, and possibly some cancers.

Low GI Foods Cause Lower Insulin Levels

This is why experts are beginning to recognize the health advantages of following a low GI diet. Because lower GI foods are converted into glucose much more slowly, causing less insulin to be produced.

This is not the last word on this subject, by any means. Research into insulin insensitivity and the relationship between insulin levels and obesity is ongoing. However, the overconsumption of high-GI foods (and high-fat fast-food) is a major cause of concern.
Overall, it is not true that controlling insulin is necessary only for diabetic people - everybody needs to control it. It's important to your body, but only in the right amount, and I think this is one of the major reasons why people fail on propoints. I think that the old plan was so restrictive calorie wise that it created a massive deficit in the amount of calories eaten vs burnt, hence people were losing weight, but the *WRONG* kind of weight, really fast, becoming really happy. Instead, with propoints WW have fixed the problem of the too high deficit, and are now trying to change people's eating habit to cut on carbs that make you feel hungry quickly and to prefer proteins and the right amount of fat. However, their mistake is not to make it clear in their diet and not to make any difference in the carbohydrates value for the propoints. Now, a low sugar carb like quinoa has the same total carbs as whole wheat bread but because it's lower in sugar it makes you feel fuller for longer and doesn't release insulin. So although 60g of quinoa have 5pp compared to the 6pp of rice and pasta for the same quantity, eating quinoa is better for you and the propoints diet fails to make you realise that. IMHO they should add a correction factor to the carbs value to show a lower propoints value if said carb is low in sugar... just my opinion!
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♥3 Years Maintaining♥
Now I am confused!!!

So basically people aren't losing weigh because they are eating the wrong 'right' carbs like wholewheat pasta & bread?

Wholewheat pasta and muesli takes up the bulk of my diet due to my running so this has really thrown me!
Now I am confused!!!

So basically people aren't losing weigh because they are eating the wrong 'right' carbs like wholewheat pasta & bread?

Wholewheat pasta and muesli takes up the bulk of my diet due to my running so this has really thrown me!
well, this is my theory. As I said, I'm no nutritionist, but it does make sense! When I was in Italy and was very much obese (96Kg per 1.58m of height) an endocrinologist had diagnosed me with over-production of insulin. Basically, from the glycemic curve that they did on me (they make you drink an awfully disgusting beverage of pure sugar extract and they take your blood after 30 mins, 60 mins, 90 mins and 2 hrs) the sugar kept being high in my blood for 1.30 hrs after I ate. This was due to my pancreas producing too much insulin, which was produced by gallstones, which that endocrinologist did not realise I was suffering from (I won't expand, but it caused me to almost die!) Anyway, going back to the subject, the high sugar level in my blood for 1.30 hrs meant that I kept on gaining weight even when I was eating barely nothing and was something that could have caused me getting diabetes after a few years because over-producing insulin, the pancreas would have run out eventually and I would have needed to go on medication. I'm telling you this to make you realise how important insulin level is on your weight-loss or gain. I was on several diets there in Italy and would never be able to shed much weight always putting everything back on... because of that. When I got rid of the problem and then moved to England and joined weight watchers, the weight just fell off me!

Now, I don't know if this is definitely the reason why people who eat sugary carbs don't lose weight with the new programme, but I think it would be worth giving it a go and buy carb products with very low sugar levels for a while and see whether this changes people's weight loss or not!

After all, 60g of quinoa is 5pp rather than 6 and it keeps you fuller for longer! Now, I need to find a way to replace my beloved porridge in the morning...:sigh:
PS: if you eat sugary carbs because of your running you might better talk to your personal trainer and your doctor to understand whether you are doing the right thing or not and whether there's proteic food you can have rather than sugary carbs to give you that energy. However I do think that you do need sugar when you run, so who knows?


♥3 Years Maintaining♥
Personal trainer, I wish! Lol

Thanks for the replys hun. So what are the less sugary carbs I should try out instead? I defo couldn't give up muesli on the days I run and defo not the pasta the day before a long run.
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Kagome75 I found your post really interesting. I love carbs and I'm finding it hard having smaller portions of potatoes and bread each day! I also have porridge for breakfast in the morning, I was wondering if you had any ideas or other things to eat for breakfast instead of porridge?
Thanks :)
Hm, I don't go by the pro-points scheme so I don't really know. But, my dad was diagnosed with diabetes about three years ago so he completely changed his diet. He basically eats either wheetabix, a bowl of porridge or some toast for breakfast. Now, you said these sorts of things slow down weight loss? My dad lost 3 stone in the space of one year without even trying to lose anything.
Can't add much about the carbs other than I know they make me retain water!

I have a fruit smoothie for breakfast most mornings, usually some frozen berries, one banana, one orange plus pure orange juice and a couple of dessert spoons of non fat natural yoghurt. It does tend to keep me going until mid morning when I have an apple.
Before I started having smoothies I always had porridge or muesli.
Hm, I don't go by the pro-points scheme so I don't really know. But, my dad was diagnosed with diabetes about three years ago so he completely changed his diet. He basically eats either wheetabix, a bowl of porridge or some toast for breakfast. Now, you said these sorts of things slow down weight loss? My dad lost 3 stone in the space of one year without even trying to lose anything.
There's porridge and porridge. Weetabix is actually quite good from a sugar points of view, it doesn't contain much of it only 1.7g per 2 biscuits. However, Weetabix Chocolate contains staggering amount of sugar by comparison... 7.2g of sugar against 1.7 of the normal weetabix. Even my beloved ready break chocolate contains 6.7g of sugar per 30g, a massive amount compared with the 0.3 of the original version. However, in both cases the sugar level is still pleasantly low considering that there's chocolate involved. Weetabix and Ready Break are some of the cereals that kids like with the lowest level of sugar. If you think that ALL BRAN contains 10.6g of sugar per 30g!

I'm not saying that *ALL* carbs slow down weight loss. I have clearly stated that we need carbs in a healthy diet, and I for once LOVE carbs, couldn't live without. I'm Italian after all! However, instead than just looking at the propoints value of the food and not caring whether the food is full of sugar, artificial sweeteners, hydrogenated fats and other stuff that harms our body, and then complain because we're not losing weight although we're following the plan "religiously", we should look more carefully at what we eat and make wise food choices trying to LIMIT (not erase) the amount of garbage and sugar in our food. we do it for salt, why not for sugar? Isn't sugar as dangerous as salt?
i've given up potatoes this week but instead ate wraps till they came out my ears,,and this week i sts so am wondering was it from the carbs in the wraps??didnt buy any today so no wraps for me this week,,interesting post kagome75 i love reading your posts:D
IAfter losing half a pound in the last 2 weeks, I've cut out carbs for 2 weeks, couldn't weigh in on MOnday, so continuing no carbs til Monday. I've eaten no bread, cereal, pots, rice, pasta or rubbish at all. I've eaten yogurt, fruit and veg and protein. I've eaten no more than 29 points a day. If I've not lost weight I won't be responsible for my actions!!!


maintaining since June'09
Be interesting to see how you do ... will you post in this thread please so we can see, in case I can't find you elsewhere?? Ta ;) xx

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