New Starter!

Also a bit depressing.

Now that the ticker works and with my working on a BMI of between 20 and 25 that is more like 7 stone I want to lose I guess.

Darn it all. I suppose that to gives me more to aspire to!:sign0007:
 
Hey Shelleycat
Just caught your thread - wanted to wish you all the very best with LL. Don't worry about how long it seems to goal - I started with a bmi of over 50 and am now (just) in the 20's. It is sooooo worth it as you will no doubt find out for yourself. Stick with it honey, it has already changed my life and my outlook and I am not even at goal yet!

xxxx
 
Thanks Peony

That is a real inspiration - you have done amazingly well. I do appreciate the positive message. It's great to hear from people who have made such amazing progress (as well as those starting LL too)!

I have just been having a fun little time thinking of all the things I need to get the OH to take to work with him in case I accidentally eat them tomorrow...

I am curious just to know (and I know you will know and Blonde Logic will too) how does the gradual progression of LL work? I was familiar with the idea that I would start with the 14 week abstenance but what will happen next (oh I do love to get ahead of myself)? Does everyone go straight to re-introduction of food and then so on.

I suppose I am now just curious (especially with the people I mentioned in my group who are back at the beginning as it were), is it actually a general thing that people would go back to abstenance again?

I am such a curious girl - in all senses of the word!

Shelleycat
 
Hi Shelley

AFter the initial 3 months of Foundation - if you still have weight to lose you carry on in "Development" until you reach your desired goal> I stayed on for 7 more months! But it goes very very fast!! Then you go on to the final (and most important part) Route to Management where you re-introduce food in a controlled manner over 12 weeks. Do NOT skip this part. It is the make or break part of the diet and you learn to identify what food trigger either a physiological reaction, or a mental reaction. It is a very important part of the program. SOme choose to skip it and go on their own. Those are usually who you see coming back as re-starters. ;)



You can stay in Foundation as long as you like.

Hope that helps. :)
 
Foundation to Development

Sorry I am feeling a bit dense but I just love having such an amazing resource as you to ask Blonde Logic. Hope that you don't mind the cheek of my asking you things!

So the way I understood it was that you could only be on total abstenance for the initial 12 week period and then you had to go back onto some kind of adittional food.

I read Mrs Lard's thread on development which was very interesting but now I am wondering if I have missed something somewhere. I understood that it was possible to stay with the programme longer but simply put I thought that you literally HAD to go back to something over the minimum calories after that first period of time?

Does something happen in between Foundation and Development?

I think the only bit I was totally confident that I did know was to do with the importance of RTM and that being the bit that 'works' as it were if you don't want to come back!

Thanks again.

Shelleycat
 
Ask away! :)

No, you stay in total abstinance until you reach your goal - however long that takes- THEN you reintroduce food in RTM. :)

They do reccomend every 13 weeks you have a "Milk Week" where you mix your shakes and soups with Milk instead of water. SOme follow this and some choose not too. It is not enforced, just suggested/reccomended as NICE (the governing body that reviews nutrition, etc. ) has not looked at abstaining beyond 13 weeks.

:)
 
BL has said it all and said it all really well.
Some people don't have milk week ( there is no evidence that it is necessary, it just keeps NICE happy) Some people find they lose more on milk weeks - some gain or stay the same. I voted never to take the chance to do either of the latter lol!

From a personal perspective regarding the phasing of LL - I found Foundation absolutely brilliant and learned so, so much. I thought it was really well structured and absolutely invaluable. Developers it seems depends on your group and counsellor - my group soon fractured and people just came to pop ins to get packs. Even the counsellor hardly showed up, using locums many weeks. I got the hump after a while as I was finding it dispiriting. It was a shame as Foundation was so good. I decided at that point to jump ship to a competitor and I have been happy with my decision. I plan on following a LL version of RTM though using the amazing threads and support here, as I don't want to be a returner with stones and stones to lose again. ( Have no problem briefly returning to packs to adjust after something like a holiday but don't want to be back here with stones to lose again!)

xxx
 
One shake down.....

Thanks again guys - that is helpful to know. I might have a chat with my LLC about it cause I think I didn't really understand how it all went and my GP didn't seem keen for me to be on it more than a few months so I figured the initial 100 days would be ok for that.

I am assuming from my poring over the 'Starting your first week' booklet that I can choose to go to RTM once I have finished Foundation - even if I still have further weight to lose (which no doubt I will).

Oh well. Good news is I have now started officially. One vanilla shake down and many more to go! I tried whizzing it up with hot water and some decaf instant coffee powder in our massive blender and it was suprisingly nice (so much better than I expected), very fluffy and light.

I have got together my survival pack of potions and remedies in case my internal workings decide to complain about their new treatment. So fingers crossed I will survive the next few days.

Don't intend to post now until after my pop in on Monday as I seem to be getting addicted to posting!

Shelleycat
 
lol posting is good as a distraction, so don't tule it out entirely - if you start to feel hungry come here and people will support you! :D But i know wht you mean.

Good luck - glad you like the shake. Making them with coffee is my favourite - I mixed them all with coffee. Hot or iced. Yummmy.

Does your doctor give yo a specific reason? If you have a health condition, then fair play - but there is no reason yu cannot healthily stay on this longer then 3 months, as many of us are proof of....but without prying into you business - just be sure you understnad his concerns. Lots of docs poo-poo the diet, "just cause" until they see how much healthier we all get and feel.

Good luck - cant wait to hear about your first weigh in!

XX
 
Rumbly in the tumbly

Hi BL

No don't think that it was anything other that their opinion as to what would be best for my general wellbeing and I was happy to go along with that as I assume they are in the know.

Figure for now I will just get on with it and cross the bridges as I come to them. Suppose I can always check back in a couple of weeks time anyway if I have to get another form signed.

I just don't want to get to end of Foundation and want to move to RTM and discover I am not allowed thus end up 'quitting' after getting that far. I think I do need to speak to my LLC about this though.

I am a bit nervous as I have only met her the once as she seems to use a "locum" (don't like the use of that word) most of the time. I feel like I have already asked them lots of questions and have many more building up (especially to do with the people in the group who I now wonder if are in Development), but don't want to be a 'pain in the bum' about it.

To be totally truthful if I hadn't come on here first that could have been my first and last meeting as the more I have thought about it the more uncomfortable I am with it. I am sure it is beginner nerves (and hunger) talking but I want to see the LLC in action before I make a real judgement about the group working.

I suppose I would have preferred to meet her before the meetings began as its a huge thing to trust in a stranger (however well qualified I am sure she is) and my idealistic idea was that everyone would be on step one and work forward from there.

Oh well. Counting down to next food pack.

Shelleycat
 
You took a big step even deciding to give LL a go Shelley- give it a chance, you deserve to look and feel fabulous on your wedding day. When I got married I didn't know about VLCD's and I still reflect on how unhappy I was walking down the aisle a fat bride. And I hate the photos. It is an awful thing to say but for me it took the shine off the day and made me even more self conscious than I would have been.

You mentioned this as one of your reasons for wanting to shed some pounds or I wouldn't have mentioned it as many people are as happy on their wedding day a chubby bride as a slimmer one - it depends on the person and there ain't nothing more beautiful than a larger bride as long as she is happy in her own skin.

The counsellor is just the facilitator so don't get too hung up on her - she is just delivering the material, this you will get in books too which worst case scenario, you can work through yourself asking her or the locum questions whenever you want - and seriously you are paying enough so make sure you phone/email/pop in whenever you want to ask those questions and if you aren't getting replies then contact HQ.

I am wondering if I have missed something regarding being 'allowed' to do rtm - are you having to have a doctor sign your monthly form off owing to medication? if not you just need a pharmacy to do it.

If you stick to 100% abstinence through foundation you will lose at least 3 stones. You could then continue abstaining and lose around a stone a month - seriously your doctor unless he is an obesity expert will know less about VLCD's than you do - never assume GPs are in 'the know' about anything- their work is so generalised they seldom know as much and as in depth about different areas of medicine as you think they might - how can they? The field is just too broad.

See how you feel towards the end of foundation and make the call whether to go into rtm or continue a month or two longer then.

By the way, you may well go through a rocky couple of days - it took me 5 to get to 'the other side' but I promise if you stick with it you will feel great by this time next week and it will feel much easier. You just need to suck it up through these few days. Take paracetamol if need be and don't expect much of yourself physically for a few days. You should emerge feeling physically fit and mentally sharp within a couple of days. (some people don't have such a hard time the first few days but I really struggled).

Good luck - as BL says, posting and reading here is very helpful - don't deny yourself it - you may well find as the journey progresses you feel less inclined to come here just go with the flow.

Good luck hunny.
xxx
 
Porridge

BL - Thanks for that - kind of what was thinking about it too but I think I might already be turning into an 'asker'!

Peony - That was a lovely post and cheered me up.

Yeah its true I want to lose a bit before I get married (in December) and also want to try and start out a bit healthier if I can. It's also true that I am quite happy in myself and this is probably less about losing weight and more about getting on track for me, rather than being miserable. I just know I would be healthier and happier still a bit thinner.

As regards being allowed to do RTM - I actually meant by the LLC. I don't think that I want to aim for my weight/BMI and have been talking this over with the OH. I don't want to be 'fat' but neither do I actually want to lose as much weight as I need to to reach a BMI of 20/25.

Sounds a bit mad I know but this is what I am thinking now so I was more concerned whether after Foundation the LLC would let me go into RTM when maybe she thought I needed Development. If that makes any more sense?

I suppose I am not clear on what is an acceptable path as I only really discovered Development this week! I think I need to talk to the LLC and make sure that this is ok? (Anyone know otherwise?)

Again I thought that I needed to be certified (!) every 4 weeks by a GP while in Foundation (that seems to be what is in my booklet and advised by LLC) and then could move to RTM without further need of this as I am introducing more calories. This is the kind of thing that I get very stressed about.

Maybe I am thinking too hard about what the GP said. Tend to assume that they know but of course you are right about the limitations of their knowlege. Truth is I suppose I now see 3 months/100 days as a target to get through and the thought of longer genuinely scares me a bit.

I am hoping that I won't feel horrible and I think that the expectation is what is getting me at the moment.

Waited until about half an hour ago before making another 'meal'. Scared of getting 'dashing to the loo for a liquid number 2' disorder (sorry to be so grahic) as I have a hair appointment later on, and how bad would that be!

Oh well at least it is the weekend tomorrow and I am hoping to sleep through the worst of the headache and such. Worst thing so far is a bit of a rumbling in my tum but it has been in a funny mood for a few days (nerves I think), and needing to p alot! Sorry - hardly know you and here I am telling you all about my innards!

Have to laugh at myself as I have made several posts since 'stopping posting'. I blame you lovely people for talking to me and encouraging me to blather on.

Oh. BTW. The porridge was ok for anyone wondering. I think it lost a bit in translation for me as I don't have a microwave so figured on the hob in a pan was the way to go. It was a bit of a strange texture but very similar to regular porridge, slightly salty taste but not unpleasant at all. Think I should have mixed it more before heating as it seemed a bit lumpy but certainly not inedible (and boy was I hungry by then).

Sincerely thanks to you BL and Peony as it could be that this is keeping me sane, along with my :kitty:
 
lol What you are feeling and thinking about and worrying about is what most of us here did too.

You call the shots with this diet. When you are satisified, you decide to go to RTM, and you will have your LLCs support. They may encourage you if you have more to lose, to stay on - but end of the day - its your diet - you make the final decision. They will not NOT allow you to do RTM at any stage.

You will see your doctor or nurse for a BP check every 4 weeks. You can also see a chemist for this. You will do this until you start RTM regardless of foundation or development.

Longevity is scary. Now. Because you are only on day 1. When you are in the groove, youa re going to feel fantastic whether you abstain for 100 days or 12 months. You will feel great. :) But as you say - do your 100 days if you feel comfortable just looking at that now. You have loads of time to make up your mind how and when you want to stop.

One day at a time - and yes, with lots of loo stops - and don;t worry - we ALL know about everybody's bodily functions in here!! heheh :D

I just have a hunch about you, that you are gonna rock this diet and do beautifully on it. You have a good head on your shoulders.

Now - DONT POST ANYMORE. :giggle: Totally kidding, I am. Bet you can;t stop. :D I couldn;t - this site is what got me through the diet.....over ayear later, and I am STILL here. lol It is just a great place for support, and banter and what not.

So - go for it! And hope you like your haircut! :)

xx
 
Just quickly wanted to emphasis what BL said about it being your decision when to do RTM. Don't worry about them pressuring you to do more if you reach a point above 'book' healthy bmi and want to stop. In fact my counsellor encouraged me to set my target at a heavier weight than I have done. She happily supported people in my group through RTM at whatever stage they decided to do it.

Your LLC should be able to give you an idea of local pharmacies where they will do your blood pressure check and sign the Lighter Life Form (which you can get from your counsellor - some may be in your little weigh in book). They do charge for this so if you can get your practise nurse to do it that is easier. At my doctor's it takes weeks to get an appointment so I never bothered the gp with the monthly BP check. If you are concerned about where to get the BP check done talk to your counsellor and make sure they tell you when they are due.

I got really cross with mine as one week she said it was due (actually she was wrong, it was a week early) and jokingly threatened to not let me have the packs. Given that I had been 100% abstinent for months I didn't think that funny. One of the reasons I switched to a competitor's diet was because I hated the 'please can I have my packs' aspect of the whole thing. I felt happier and more secure buying most of the packs I needed in one go to get me to target. But as I say, I would always recommend sticking with LL for the duration of the Foundation stage rather than consider going it alone.

Have a lovely Friday eve hun.

xxx
 
Chocolate Shake surprise!

Surprise was the lid of the blender not being on properly when I turned it on. Considering most of the chocolate shake went all over the kitchen it tasted alright - just glad it didn't get me in the new haircut or I would have been a bit cross (flick flick).

And I am not so desperate that I was prepared to start licking the work surface though I might need the extra calories by now!

Thanks guys - weird to say to 'strangers' but I hope that we are going to be friends and I appreciate you getting me through the grumpiest of days (I am not usually like that!)! I'd usually have a good moan to the OH (or anyone nearby - hee hee) but today has been a funny old day so far...

BL I am especially touched at your faith in me. Means more coming from someone who has been through it and I am resolved (on this - Day 1)!

Peony - I am liking your candour too!

Thus far I have a bit of a headache (which might be psycological) and was a bit dizzy by the time I had walked home from the hairdressers but otherwise my will is a rod of slightly rusty iron. Fear that there is some TOTM on its way too so that would probably add to the exploding blender of emotion.

I have bitten my bulled and emailed my LLC with a couple of questions (including about RTM which you guys have now totally reassured me about).

I suppose I am just not clear on how much the locum will be used (apparently for the pop in's too) and now wish I had read the 'questions to ask your LLC' thread earlier! Oh well. Hindsight is a beautiful thing ain't she!?

Have a lovely weekend girls and I will let you know how I go on if I ever manage to stop telling you how I am going on (if that makes sense)!

It is a wonderful thing that you have made me feel included and not alone and I really do thank you for that. I honestly don't think that I would have been able to bottle things up all day so it has felt like chatting to the girls!

Shelley:kitty:
 
Chilli con Carne and the exploding blender paradigm

So in case anyone hasn't had it and is interested I tried the Chilli con Carne last night for my evening meal.

It didn't look very appetising I have to admit (a bit like pureed kitty food) but once it had had a few minutes sitting time it did develope a bit of texture and was quite spicy (to my taste anyway - but I am a wuss).

I actually enjoyed it ok. Did find it had a bit of a funny aftertaste but I am finding that with most of this stuff to be honest (it all has a kind of smell and taste that I am thinking must be the soya or one of the other ingredients). I have made a post querying this if anyone gets a chance to look it over and give me their thoughts.

I had a bit of a hungry feeling an a rumbly tum when I went to bed last night but managed not to break and just had some water.

Also found that I was very thirsty too (despite drinking so much that I slosh), and still am thirsty so another 2 litres of water here I come.

This morning I woke up at 5am or so. Bit irritating but I finally got back to sleep and then woke up again about 7:30am. Thankfully my headache is a dim throb now and my head feels much less fuzzy (if anyone gets that), I had been feeling a bit 'hard of thinking' and wondered if that was the lack of calories too.

Oh well. I have had a mocha shake this morning and suffered from blender explosion again - is this me!!! We have one of those jug blenders and making the shake with hot water (haven't tried cold) results in cleaning it off the walls, floor and counter top each time. I was ready for it and yet it still shot up and surprised me.

I know that you said that a stick blender was the best BL - do you use a certain kind of jug or something to blend in? We do have a stick blender but he doesn't have a particular associated jug and I am wondering what I should try him with.

Think of all the calories I am wasting by spraying the rest of the kitchen with my nifty shake powder!

Have a nice weekend all.

Shelley:kitty:
 
lol bless. Hot water does not like to be blended in contained areas, so if your lid is air tight that is probably why it keeps exploding.

You should have been given a LL beaker/shaker? That is what I used for shakes, and for soups I used a glass 2-pint measuring jug.

Good on you completing your first day!! That is the hardest day - done!

Hurrah! :)
 
Uses of a blender in fat burning warfare...

Hi BL

I did think it could be the hot water in an airtight space (blender has one of those little air holes but not a significant hole), so I have tried holding tight to the lid with a tea towel.

Think what happens is the blender fires up and the (loud) noise scares me and I lose my grip on its lid! My LLC locum who handed out the shake things told me not to use that with hot water or it would explode - do you use hot in yours?

On the plus side my jumper smells like chocolate shake now so I might be eating my own arm before lunch rolls around!

I think I either need to learn a better blending technique or else buy a smaller but more vented blender. I wondered about using a stick blender with the shake in a jug (as you do with soup), perhaps I will try out a soup with boiling water and the stick blender later and see how it goes.

I'll probably be posting from the local hospital later with burn trauma from over zealous blending.......shouldn't joke really!

Hope you are having a nice Satuday am?

S:kitty:
 
Just saw this while waiting for bath to fill.
For shakes, the blender ball things are genious - I bought 3 lock and lock beakers Lock & Lock 470ml Tall Round Container With Mixer: Amazon.co.uk: Home & Garden because they are small, and 3 blender ball beakers Mp blender bottle mini - Accessories | myprotein.co.uk which I just bought for the balls as you can't buy them on their own, and I used the blender ball in the lock and lock beaker - I took out the lock and lock beaker sieve bit at the top - this may be an expensive way but I find it guarantees no lumps and is small enough to take anywhere.

I use a stick blender and stick blender beaker for the hot ones (except I didn't for the chilli) I never bothered microwaving th eporridge either - I just poured on the boiling water, waited a bit and then blended with the stick blender.

The fuzzy head / headache isn't ketosis per se - I think it is your body having a withdrawal from carbs and sugars - Once actually in ketosis you will probably find your mind is much sharper. I also find that I am less sleepy through the day and in the evening - I don't have peaks and troughs of energy/tiredness - I am just on a nice constant through the day. I feel more alert in the evening. In the first weeks I did find it harder getting to sleep - I think this was a lot to do with having so much whirring round my mind - but after a whort while I found I got off to sleep better and sI also started sleeping much better too.

xxxx
 
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