The 180 Principle

Discussion in 'Fitness Health and Exercise' started by Justin, 16 July 2009 Social URL.

  1. Justin

    Justin Banned

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    I did start writing out a new exercise tip last night, but I had second thoughts and wanted to post something a little more wholesome today. Todays post is more of an underlying concept than a specific tip, but it will help you a lot i'm sure.


    Firstly, it has to be said that I am well aware that it is frustrating for you as exercisers that you are constantly being given contradicting advice. "Do THIS to lose weight. No, do THIS instead" etc.

    Should you do aerobic exercise? Anaerobic exercise? Free weights with heavy weights, free weights with light weights, kettlebells, bikes, light jogs, intense sprints??? It goes on and on, and I'd like to tell you that I am aware of this, and understand it must be hard.

    That's one of the main reasons I'm here, and in the following posts I will be not only explaining why my own methods and strategies work, but also why some others DON'T. This will help you better understand your exericse regime and will help when constructing one of your own.


    So today, before we get to the 180 principle, there is another pricniple I'd like to share, called the 80/20 Principle (or the Paretto Principle).

    Paretto was an italian scientist who died over a hundred years ago, but he came up with a theory that whilst we all strive to achieve 50/50 balance in everything we do, it rarely happens because the world, naturally, is NOT balanced, nor is it meant to be.

    He theorised that balance was usually distributed at a range of 60/40 to 95/5. So whereas it is called the 80/20 principle thats actualyl a generalisation, nevertheless the message is the same.

    The first application of this principle was to business, where is was found that in a typcial company, 80% of the sales made were done by 20% of their employees.

    Other figures then started emerging that made this principle famous:

    80% of total profits were generated by 20% of the companies in that field (e.g. Mcdonalds take 80% of the entire profits within the fast food industry, despite having only 20% market share).


    What has this got to do with exercise and fat loss?

    Well, I started applying this principle to different things, and realised it does actually apply to virtually EVERYTHING we do. For instance, I'm willing to bet that:

    -You wear 20% of the clothes in your wardrobe 80% of the time
    -You spend 80% of your time with only 20% of your closest friends
    - You read only 20% of the books on your bookshelf 80% of the time. etc

    Then I started applying it to exercise, and figures from my degree course told me that 80% of people who start an exercise program drop out within a year, leaving only 20%.

    THEN I realised that within a workout, 20% of the exercises you do will give you 80% of your overall results! (And these 20% will always be the biggest compound exericses that use the most muscles - Squats and Deadlifts!)


    Then I read an article from a well respected Strength and Conditioning coach named Charles Staley, who talked about what he called the 180 Principle.

    Now, he based this on the fact that of all the people who exercise at the gym, only 20% get the results they want. So why do 80% fail?

    The answer is suprisingly simple. Staley suggested that you look around your gym, and look at what 80% of people are doing (in relation to your goal - in this case fat loss).

    Im again willing to bet that 80% of those looking to lose weight are jogging at a low to moderate intensity, performing aerobic exercise for up to 2 hours per day, gazing up at the TV screens, or lifting weights that are far too light to cause any metabolic disturbance (In other words, even their 'resistance' training is just MORE aerobic exercise!).

    Staley then brings in his 180 Principle, which simply states that you turn 180 degrees from what the 80% are doing, and instead exercise in a similar fashion to how the 20% who are getting results are!

    This also reminds me of a quote from Oscar Wilde - "Everything popular is wrong."


    So, the point I'm trying to make with this post is that hopefully now you can better understand why now more trainers (probably around 20% of trainers in the business) are recommending counter-intuitive exercise such as heavier free weights, more intense interval style training and to reduce the time of each session to an hour or less.


    Basically, steady-state aerobic exercise is out-dated and unreliable when it comes to fat loss. It has its place, but not in a fat loss program. Neither to single joint exercises that only challenge one or two muscles at a time, such as sit ups, leg curls, bicep curls, or tricep kickbacks.

    Trainers have tried these approaches for a couple of decades now and its not got people anywhere. Obesity rates are still rising, health levels are still declining, and more and more people are becoming diabetic.

    I am here on this forum to help spread this message that what probably 80% of you would do for a fat loss program will likely be ineffective over the long term.

    I'd like to share with you the 20% of the information you will recieve that will be of more benefit to you and will help you reach your goals.



    Okay guys, like I said this was more of an underlying concept message rather than a tip but I did feel the need to write it for some reason or other. Somethings just nag away at me and this was one of those things I wanted to get off my chest. I'm sick of so much rubbish info being spewn out by the media, the government, scientists, and 80% of exercise professionals out there. And to be fair, its not thier fault that their knowledge is out-dated, because that's what they've been taught at university and college courses, whose syllabus' are also out of date.


    So the take-home message to all of you here who are trying your best to reach your goals is this:

    80% of the consequences come from 20% of the actions. Look for that 20% of actions and you'll find most people aren't doing them. I want to help you discover that 20%, which will then get you 80% of your results.

    And to do that, we need to go in a 180 degree direction to what most people are doing, and what most people are telling you.


    If you have any thoughts or questions regarding my thoughts above, please let me know. I apologize if you feel you haven't attained much from this post, but as I said its just something I've wanted to get off my chest for a while. there'll be more specific exercise help and tips coming soon!



    Justin
     
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  3. sugar_lipswales

    sugar_lipswales Silver Member

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    I think I'm a classic example of the people you describe on the treadmills lol. I used to do 2 1/2 hours in the gym and would take books in to read, meaning I wasn't paying 100% attention to the task at hand. A trainer at my gym saw what I was doing and took the time to re educate me, I now do much more concentrated interval training and heavier free weights. Listen to this guy people, he knows what he's talking about and if you do what he says you will see a difference!
     
  4. judimac

    judimac Mad old Bat with Attitude

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    I hear what you're saying,but in my gym it was very much one size fits all! Concentrating on the "younger" fitter folk and no real knowledge of applying clinical reasoning to exercise programmes taking into allowance degenerative conditions, which as they did exercise on prescription I would have thought would have been forthcoming.
    The amount of exercise you do can only supplement a good diet, I wouldn't have thought anyone on these boards would think of exercise as the primary way to lose weight, rather a way to improve fitness, tone and with a bit of luck speed up weightloss.
     
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  5. Justin

    Justin Banned

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    Of course there are many exercisers who need more tailoring to specific conditions, and if anyone would like more help with a more individually tailored program then I am happy to help if given some details. Also Gertiegumdrop would be of excellent help to you in this regard I'm sure, as she is a Level 4 Fitness Consultant.


    As for the other point, I think it works either way. If you exercise, your diet has to supplement that. If dieting is your primary aim, then you can only exercise to a level that your diet allows. But nevertheless, I am firm in my belief that resting metabolism is the key to fat loss, as it contrbutes to between 50-70% of the calories you burn day to day. Diet can be manipulated to increase your metabolism, but it will never match the increase to metabolism that exercise can produce.
     
  6. The Punisher

    The Punisher Full Member

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    I'm of the opinion that it will always be 50-50. I'm trying to lose weight at the minute so I know I need to combine diet with exercise. When I get to gal and try to put on some muscle I know that again, it'll involve another change to my eating and exercise. I'd never dream of just exercising while eating a terrible diet and I wouldn't dream of just dieting and not exercising. I don't want to build muscle under a layer of fat and I don't want to be 'skinny fat.' Of course that is just my opinion, and I certainly don't have the kind of knowledge that a personal trainer has
     
  7. judimac

    judimac Mad old Bat with Attitude

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    One thing that's always interested me is, I know that when you've had a hard work out you raise your metabolism , and of course the more lean muscle you have the higher it is anyway, but how long will the boost from a hard work out last for? Is there any way to tell? ( I like having a captive trainer to ask these things at my disposal!)
     
  8. Justin

    Justin Banned

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    Judimac:

    Schuenke MD, Mikat RP, McBride JM. Effect of an acute period of resistance exercise on excess post-exercise oxygen consumption: implications for body mass management.
    European Journal of Applied Physiology. March 2002, Vol 86 (5): 411-7. Epub 2002 Jan 29.

    This study found that metabolism was raised for up to 38 hours after exercise had ceased. Other studies have had similar findings, some up to 24 hours, some only 16, depeding on how intense the exercise was. The participants of the above experiment performed 12 sets of resistance exercise in just over 30 minutes.


    Another study from way back in 1994 took two groups, one performing interval style cardio training for 15 weeks compared to a group performing steady state aerobic exercise for 20 weeks.

    DURING the exercise, overall calories burned by the Interval group came to 13, 614 kcal. The aerobic group burned 28, 661 - more than 50%!

    BUT, the interval group lost nine times more fat than the aerobic group at the end of the study, showing how much of part metabolism post-exercise has on fat loss.


    Punisher (Cool name lol!):

    Your opinion in right in my estimation. I've said on occasion that maybe diet and exercise isn't 50/50, maybe its more 100 / 100, meaning both have to be spot on to get the best results, and neither should be played down.

    I've learned that you should always base an exercise program around how much recovery you can get, you shouldn't base your recovery around an exercise program. And recovery pretty much = nutrition and sleep. Bare in mind that the concepts and advice I give is typycally based on trying to burn the most fat in the quickest time possible. This is how I need to program because my clients want results ASAP. And if it is your goal to lose 2lb per week (the msot fat you can burn safely without cutting into too much water or muscle loss) then the intensity needs to be high, and therefore calorie intake must be above a certian level.
     
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  9. Capirossi

    Capirossi Full Member

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    I love all this guys stuff!! Like I mentioned previously, I am lucky that my husband is into his weights and his research has been very thorough, therefore our diet and supplement intake is also pretty good. To hear it from a 'pro' only gives it more credance!

    So Justin, a really simple question for you here....how do you recommend your clients to work out their calorie allowance? I always eat less than my husband tells me I should be eating, but that's because I am not a big eater. I was aiming for 1200 ish (husb says at least 1400 :rolleyes:) but I am lucky to be getting 1000 in reality. I'm sure eating more than you usually do is as difficult as eating less than you normally do!! :break_diet:
     
  10. Justin

    Justin Banned

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    I posted how I work out calorie allowance somewhere today, can't remember where I posted it though lol. Here it is again then: (remember this is only what I personally recommend, you may get different answers from different people, I've found this to be effective in real world cases):

    Women: Multiply your bodyweight in lbs by 15, and subtract 10-20% to get your calorie allowance.

    Men: Do the same but times bodyweight by 18.

    So (for the sake of simple maths) a 100lb woman would roughly be at maintenance level at 1500. 20% of 1500 = 300

    So calorie intake (at a deficit) comes to around 1200 calories.

    But like I said, this is very general and can change from one person to the next. Some people have naturally high metabolisms before exercising so it may not be enough calories for them. To help this possible problem I'd recommend that if you find you are not getting enough calories (you don't have the energy to exercise, you start picking up regular cold symptoms, or you generally feel like crap due to overtraining) you may need more calories. In this case I'd increase your calorie intake by an extra 100 and see how you feel by the next week.


    Also remember, that a calorie is not just a calorie. 1500 calories from chocolate and ice-cream wouldn't give you quite the same effect as 1500 calories from fresh vegetables, lean meat and fish. I'm sure every one here knows this but you'd be suprised just what things I get asked at work....
     
  11. Capirossi

    Capirossi Full Member

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    Sorry, I've seen that now :eek: Cheers!
     
  12. sugar_lipswales

    sugar_lipswales Silver Member

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    So 212lbs times 15 = 3180
    20% of 3180 = 636
    3180 - 636 = 2544 calories required to maintain? Did I do that right?
     
  13. Capirossi

    Capirossi Full Member

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    I think the 3180 is the mainteinance figure, 2544 being the reduction to lose weight. Seems a lot though doesn't it? I suppose it's hard to define one rule for all...what sort of eating plan are you currently doing and are you getting good results?
     
  14. sugar_lipswales

    sugar_lipswales Silver Member

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    I do Slimming World where you don't count calories but it seems an awful lot of calories to lose weight! I'm a little bit shocked lol
     
  15. Capirossi

    Capirossi Full Member

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    lol Me too!! Oh well, stick with what you're doing if it's working for you ;) I only asked about it as I don't think I am eating enough :( Mine works out at about 1400-1500 - that's tonnes for me!!! :eek:
     
  16. Justin

    Justin Banned

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    Yeah like I said it will differ. Im no expert on calorie counts and maybe after a certain weight the rules will change. Usually I just advise people to stick with to as much veg, protein and essential fats required, and reduce processed carbs. When the diet is made of the right foods, there usually isn't a need to count calories anyway.

    Perhaps Gertiegumdrop will ahve some more precise nutrition advice, as like I've said my expertise lies mainly in exercise.
     
  17. sugar_lipswales

    sugar_lipswales Silver Member

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    That's such good advice!
     
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  19. MagdaX

    MagdaX is Magdalicious

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    Omg this guy is a genius. Will read it all when I get home. Fascinating!
     
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