worried!

[toller-girl]

I had a really long chat with my mum last night, and she's worried about effects of doing LL long term.

She thinks that because I've lost 3 stone, my health is a lot better than it was before and I should lose the rest through healthy eating and exercise.

When I started the plan I was only going to do it to give me a kick start, and fully intended to lost the last couple of stone at WW or similar.

She's been seeing all the stuff on the news, and was concerned by an interview with a leading expert in obesity who says going on this diet long term is damaging to your body, and the longer you're on it the longer it takes to get back to normal.

She also quoted statistics that say people who reach goal through exclusive sole sourcing are less likely to keep the weight off, than people who do it for a short time and then do the rest with healthy eating and exercise.

I agreed we would talk about it again when my pre payment runs out (week after next) she thinks I should stop when I reach under 12 stone. My healthy BMI is 11 stone, but my goal weight is between 9 and 10.

I just don't know what to do now. On the one hand I can see her point, there ISN'T enough research on these diets to suggest they are safe long term, and most guidelines suggest no more than 2 months.

On the hand, losing the remaining couple of stone would take about 3 times as long on WW. I'm 30 this year, I don't want to waste any more time being overweight and unhappy

When I started, my weight was at a point where it was having a huge impact on my health and activity levels, and now I'm able to do more and wouldn't be eligible to start Lighter Life.

Been thinking of a compromise, when I get to 11 and a half start RTM but stay on the first couple of weeks for a longer time, so I'm still taking in less calories than normal, but it's not quite as extreme.

What does everyone else think? Does the long term aspect worry you too?

 

[minilady]

Hi

That's a really awkward situation to be in. When someone posts to say that friends say these sort of thing to them, the reply posts normally say to follow what you feel is right for you and ignore the comments. However when it's your mum it's a different situation altogether as you know that there is no jealousy behind her words, just caring and concern.

I don't know how long LL has been a company but I do know that with Cambridge which as you know is extremely similar with respects the diet, has been used to treat obesity for over 20 years. I'm sure in this time if there were extreme side effects after a long period of use then these would be continually highlighted by the press for example and the diet would not have the popularity it has.

With regards putting on weight as soon as you've finished the diet, well to be honest in my opinion I think that applies for any diet method whether it be a VLCD or a more conventional diet. The trouble is if we go back to our pre diet eating habits then the weight will pile on. I think that is where LL seems to be very in tune with this and they provide a lot of support and get their dieters to do a lot of headwork in this area so that when they maintain hopefully it will be easier for them.

I'm sorry I can't help you in your decision. If you wish to continue abstaining maybe you could do some research to show to your mum. Would your LLC be able to help you with this?

However, your plan to move to RTM (I think that's what it's called) sounds like a good compromise

Wishing you all the best

Tracey
x

 

[ladylite]

I am not very good at giving expert advice but this is just my feelings and experiences.

I am a mother and a grandmother and 3 of my children are overweight and if theY wanted to do the diet I would be really pleased as carrying excess baggage, to me is more dangerous. My Doctor has been over the moon with my weight loss and progress so far.

I have done LL and fell off the wagon and since then, been ill with flu that I found hard to get rid of, felt depressed and all the rest that goes with it and of course that FAILURE feeling. Felt wonderful on LL. Cant wait to get back on track.

Also I personally have never heard of anyone dying on LL.

Good luck with your decision, but I feel if you are happy doing it would stick at it - sorry mum:cry:

 

[mikey]

She's been seeing all the stuff on the news, and was concerned by an interview with a leading expert in obesity who says going on this diet long term is damaging to your body, and the longer you're on it the longer it takes to get back to normal.

"Ex" is a has been and "spurt" is a drip under pressure.

Seriously though you will find experts on both sides of the argument (like you do for most things).

The fact is the nutritional advice that we have been given by experts for the last 40 years does not work - that is one of the reasons why we have an epidemic of obesity in the western world.

The message that fat is bad is ridiculous and the low-calorie message is really rather flawed itself. An example of this is that calorific value is measured in a calorimiter that burns the item being tested and measures the energy given off. As most of us know the calorific rating of fat is 9 kcals per gramme, the calorific value of protein and carbohydrates are approx 4 kcals/gm. It would seem sensible therefore to reduce fats and increast carbs and protein, but this forgets the fact that the body does not metabolise food like a calorimeter. An example of this is that many oils are used as laxatives - linseed, castor oil, fish oils etc.) and quite clearly this is because they are not fully metabolised by our bodies.

There is a lot of studying still to be done, and it is amazing that the focus is still on low fat diets after the incredible failure generally of such diets to work long-term.

Anyway, I could probably go on for ages and I don't want to bore you all, but in essence - just do what you feel is right. Just make sure that you follow through RTM though as it will ensure that you understand very well how YOUR body and metabolism work in conjunction with foodstuffs.

Good Luck whatever you decide.

 

[Linze01]

Hi Toller Girl,

I took a lot of time before starting this diet to look at the research and possible side effects, so I feel I went into it with my eyes wide open. I hope I can put your mind a little to rest.

The sad fact is that 80% of people who lose weight (and that is a conservative figure) will go on to regain that weight within two years. There is some evidence to support the idea that people who undergo a very low calorie diet alongside cognitive behavioural therapy are the MOST successful weight holders after two years. In fact one piece of research that followed a group of women over 15 years found VLCD alongside CBT was about 20% more effective than any other diet. The researchers were Ayyad and Anderson, Journal was Obesity Reviews, year 2000. I found this info a couple of years ago:
In the 2001 Obesity research journal, there was an article called Very-Low-Calorie-Diets and Sustained Weight Loss. I've highlighted the relevant information in green below:
The abstract and conclusion are as follows:
Objective: To review of the literature on the topic of very-low-calorie diets (VLCDs) and the long-term weight-maintenance success in the treatment of obesity.Research Methods and Procedures: A literature search of the following keywords: VLCD, long-term weight maintenance, and dietary treatment of obesity.
Results: VLCDs and low-calorie diets with an average intake between 400 and 800 kcal do not differ in body weight loss. Nine randomized control trials, including VLCD treatment with long-term weight maintenance, show a large variation in the initial weight loss regain percentage, which ranged from -7% to 122% at the 1-year follow-up to 26% to 121% at the 5-year follow-up. There is evidence that a greater initial weight loss using VLCDs with an active follow-up weight-maintenance program, including behavior therapy, nutritional education and exercise, improves weight maintenance.
Conclusions: VLCD with active follow-up treatment seems to be one of the better treatment modalities related to long-term weight-maintenance success.
You used to be able to read the whole article online but now you would have to pay to view it. The basic outline is that there are side effects to VLCDs but that when compared with conventional diets, VLCDs that incorporate cognitive behavioural therapy have a significantly higher rate of long term success.
This is a really big decision for you but maybe you could show this info to your mum?

This research is non-biased and as far as I'm aware was not funded by any particular company with a product to sell.
Hope this all helps.
Linze

 

[x-Katie-x]

I've got to be honest TG and say that while I in no means think that LL would cause a danger to your health (otherwise believe me I wouldn't do it) - I really can understand where your mum is coming from.

I know I'm doing this for me, I've checked it out, feel secure with it and am happier than ever however were it not me doing it but my 19 yr old daughter (and I'd never done it) I do think I could feel differently and fully understand where your mum is coming from. We see things differently when it affects those we really love, don't always see the good that's happening - I can see that I'd just think she was doing something 'drastic' and I would want her to do something more conventional.

However I do believe that if she showed me this site, the photo's of those who have lost weight - people on here always look like they've lost their weight and found themselves (if you know what I mean), and I read the stories that people on here have written then I think I would have a better understanding and that it might change my mind.

In all honesty I don't think literature from the company can do what the users can do - I'd always think the company will write anything to sell the product and get people using it but you don't get that feeling when you read the 'real life' ---- so my advice might be to sit with her in front of a computer from an hour and explain that you'd just like her to see your side and understanding.

Got to say that I totally credit you for being so sensitive to your mums feelings that you would feel the way you do - you're a credit to yourself and your mum xx

 

[Donnalou86]

Hi TG, I'm lost off on what to tell you really. I know you're looking so so healthy and slim now, and if you think the best thing for you would be to go on to a healthy eating plan to lose the rest I think it could be great. But you're doing so well on LL too and I think that the RTM idea would be better (personally) because you'd still be getting the support you get from LL, and learning real lessons for the future about delayed gratification. Also you would still be with me and the other girls who we've been with all along. I think our close group is a fantastic crutch to lean on in hard times. I too have made my goal weight more than it was meant to be, and am considering moving on to RTM even just before I am a healthy BMI (you know the bother I've had with them getting my height wrong!) so we could do it together. As you said give it a few more weeks and think about it. Hope you feel better soon hun x

 

[Blonde Logic]

Hi TG

I agree with much of what has been said. Well, all fo what has been said really. Your mum is concerned for you, and that is normal....and I can understand how the recent media has not helped the situation. Unfortunatey, that report did not go on about the dangers of being overweight. Typical.

My mum does not know yet that I have been doing this, and when I see her in May I expect her to be concerned as well. Iwould be surprised if she is not.

It hink you have options, and the ones you mentioned all sound reasonable. But at the end of the day - you are an adult, so the decision needs to be yours - what YOU want to do, for you - and noone else.

I fully expected my motherinlaw to be against this as she is a nurse. But she was fullys upportive and felt we were getting all the nutrition, so it was safe to do. I was pleased with her support.

But - saying that - I do sometimes think that many months of this could have a slighlty adverse effect on our bodies - but only slight - and that when food is reintroduced, we will be fine again.

Someone said no one died from LL. Before I started the diet, I did find one story on the web - from a reputable site (as reputable as they can be these days) and a women dided who was doing LL but they could not confirm it was because of LL.

It is hardcore - and I think a nuber of months is OK - I wouldnot want to see someone do this for a year or longer - as that would seem to take a toll maybe?

Anyway hon - you know you have our support, whatever YOU decide to do. Bless ya.

XX

 

[toller-girl]

Thanks all for your advice It's much appreciated.

Yesterday morning I had made up my mind to stay on until goal, but that was until I fainted at the worst possible time yesterday night

I don't know if it was because of the diet or not, but it's got me even more worried

 

[minilady]

Thanks all for your advice It's much appreciated.

Yesterday morning I had made up my mind to stay on until goal, but that was until I fainted at the worst possible time yesterday night

I don't know if it was because of the diet or not, but it's got me even more worried

Hi

Have you ever fainted before? It might be worth visiting your GP. I know that occasionally you could feel light headed etc. but you shouldn't be fainting due to the diet. Were you doing anything strenuous at the time?

Hope you're feeling well today but would definately encourage a visit to GP if you've been fainting.

Take care
Tracey
x

 

[toller-girl]

Hi, I wasn't doing anything strenuous, teaching my dog training class.

I think GP would just say stop LL, he wasn't keen on me doing it in the first place.

I don't feel great today either, really lightheaded and as though I'm exhausted

Maybe I've just got a virus?

 

[gazz]

i havn't fainted but had a few dizzy spells, but then came down with a cold so think it was all related. I personally am sticking with this till the end, I have been told by my LLC my goal is too extreme, but I might change it if need be. All I'm trying to say is, it's a very personal choice this diet, nobody should tell you what to do but yourself. I understand concern and a Mothers love, but at the end of the day it's got to be up to you. I love it and will continue till I reach the end, however long that takes.

 

[minilady]

Hi, I wasn't doing anything strenuous, teaching my dog training class.

I think GP would just say stop LL, he wasn't keen on me doing it in the first place.

I don't feel great today either, really lightheaded and as though I'm exhausted

Maybe I've just got a virus?

It could be a virus, there are lots of strange bugs going around at present, but the fainting is worrying. I'd see how you feel tomorrow and if it persists I'd definately go to GP.

Hope you have a good weekend

Tracey
x

 

[Blonde Logic]

I nearly fainted last week - or the one before - BUT - I had taken 2 codeine during the day, and had not any packs at all all day. It was just as I was making my first pack at about 7:30pm when the edges started turning black and fuzzy - I knew I was going to go down if I didn't eat something, so grabbed a bar and rushed to the couch just in case as I was standing on a ceramic tile floor! It was a horrible horrible feeling....but I know that is because I took the meds.

I normally wouldn;t have taken on an empty stomach but was at work - felt fine when I left the house so left all packs home as usual - but after an hour or two, neck was in agony so took 1 Cod. Then another about 4 becuase the firstone did not affect me porrly at all. Guess 2 was pushing it a bit.

Hope you feel better TG. Do keep us posted that youa re doing OK. If it doesn;timprove in a day or two - consider your doctor. Even if he tells you to stop the diet - the ultimate decision willl still lie with you.
xx

 

[Donnalou86]

I had a very simlar experiance to you BL, i hadn't had any packs all day about a month ago, and was making my OH his tea and felt myself going, eyes blacked over and really bad feeling, so did the same, quickly grabbed a pack and sat down for half an hour and it passed.

Toller did you phone Angela after you fainted to ask her advice? I was really worried when I read that. If you feel it's because of the diet then please look after yourself, nothing is worth being ill. But it could possibly have been a bug, have you had all your packs and water? Cos know you occasionally struggle to have them all like me. Will have a good chat with you tommorow about it, really hope you're feeling better.
Love Donna

 

[toller-girl]

Awww thanks

I'll speak to Angela tomororw, I still feel really poorly today, all shaky and weak. Hope it's just a virus.

I might see about trying milk week next week to see if that helps?

 

[Catito]

Hi, I have a mum just like yours who has worried since I went on this diet. She wanted me to stop until she saw the jamie oliver programme where they did the MRI scans on obese people. since then she has been more supportive but still worries. I was a bit concerned about the loss of lean tissue as well as fat but this is minimal down to BMI 25. I've just switched to CD so that I can move up the plans and lose the last weight that way if I decide to. Haven't made my mind up yet.
You've done really well so far & good luck with the last bit