Discussion in 'News - please read!' started by Minimin, 24 August 2009.
Gosh that's scary. But simply put, no. I wouldn't follow a crash diet - like the soup one mentioned. First off, it's clearly not healthy. And I'm a mum, I have a young son to think of. It's one thing putting your own health at risk, but to risk leaving your child motherless is something else.
Hmmm, there are some people who'd consider Atkins and VLCD diets as extreme, certainly when I started Atkins a lot of people told me it would kill me, far from it apparently.
As far I as I've understood, ketosis has nothing at all to do with ketoacidosis which means they've totally miswritten some stuff in that article. Isn't ketoacidosis when you have extremely high blood sugar level and the blood ph becomes.. acidic?
Since human bodies are build to eat mostly protein I think we should be able to do a "hardly any carbs" diet without the risk of dying?
On the contrary, I do not believe in crash diets that are not for sure giving your body everything it needs.
And I think that everyone who does a diet that requires water should be told not to drink crazy amounts at the same time.
I think your before and afters tell a totally different story, eh Jim! There's a vast difference (IMO) between Atkins and a soup only diet!
Pichi, they always get the two confused, I suspect they do it deliberately sometimes, makes it more shock factor. you know. LOW CARB KILLS!
Sounds to me if she has drunk too much water, there's an explanation here: Water Intoxication & Hyponatremia
There's loads of very generalized and misleading statements in that article.
"Ketoacidosis, which killed Helen Anderson, happens when there the body has to look for alternative sources of energy, for example if it is deprived of carbohydrates and starts burning fat as fuel.
This releases chemicals called
ketones into the blood, which can be poisonous in high concentrations.
Ketoacidosis may take anything from a few hours to several days to develop. Warning signs include"
Helen died of ketoacidosis...well sort of. If you walk out in front of a bus, and get crushed, you could die of deflated lungs.
Helen was following a DIY VLCD. Probably not enough protein. She wasn't even underweight when she died, but the lack of protein would have caused lean mass loss. No doubt, her major organs were failing, and so the insulin feedback wasn't there to kick in to protect ketosis.
So, she died of ketoacidosis...because of failing organs (probably). If she had followed a researched VLCD and followed guidelines, this wouldn't have happened.
Jacqueline died because she drank too much water in a very short space of time. She didn't die from the diet, nor did she die from drinking water. It was the time span in which she drunk it.
This has happened to athletes in the past. Watch out....never go for a run, never drink water...athletes have been known to die whilst doing so!!!
See how crazy it is??
VLCDs are extreme, but can be a safe way of losing a lot of weight if they are well researched and proven to be safe AND
IF PEOPLE FOLLOW THE GUIDELINES AS SET OUT!!!
And apologies for shouting but this is one of my biggest bug bears. People who try and tweak them because they believe they know better. They apply what they know from more common traditional diets, whereas VLCDs are different.
NEVER MESS WITH A VLCD. EVER
Ahem...off my soap box now
I have always been wary of VLCD's and never chosen to follow one even though I respect those that do, and have successfully changed their lives because of one. I have always been a believer in taking permanent changes by eating healthy foods and never feeling deprived. For me, its just not worth the quick buzz, i'd rather be slow and steady if necessary, but I know that my way doesnt work for some people either.
The 'too much water in one go' issue is a very sad fact, because it is so unnecessary and avoidable given the right facts from day 1!!! What does concern me though is the relation between VLCD's and heart attacks. I have read about people having a stroke or heart attack on LL or some other type of VLCD diets, is this due to some underlying heart condition? Or can a VLCD really affect the muscle mass of the heart?
My own family doctor advised me to ALWAYS eat at least '1000' cals a day and exercise steadily in order to avoid 'future' health issues such as osteoporsis for one, and other things not related to obesity as such but to the effects of starvation.
Ursula the dietitian says:“You need to get all the proper things into your diet like protein, carbs, fats, vitamins and all the other things we know about.
“You cannot do without any of them and your body will suffer if you don’t have a balance of what you need."
Phew, that's nice to know - because CD, LL, LT and probably other vlcds have the balance just right, don't we?
She's only wrong, I believe, in saying that losing weight fast isn't the right way to do it. Who's going to write to her?
Couldn't agree more KD!!!! Don't mess with it!!!
Don't think you know better because YOU DON'T!!!!!!!!
ehhhhhhhhh?? surely there aren't any more people having heart problems on VCLD's than in comparison to other diets?
In theory though...lean muscle does include stuff like the heart....so...if someone wasn't following a VCLD correctly, then yeah. As far I can see, heart muscle loss is an option.
It's scary to think that these kinds of diets are advertised in magazines, like it's a miracle cure or something. When it comes down to it, it's simply starving your body.
There's also the worry that usually the faster you lose the weight, the bigger the chance that you are actually losing lean muscle instead of fat. It's also much easier to put the whole lot back on again as well, stick to a healthy diet and exercise a bit more!
My SIL is a dietician and said that although she wouldn't reccomend VLCD to her patients, that as far as she is aware they make people go into ketosis and only people who have underlying health problems i.e. diabetics are in danger of ketoacidosis. Wikpedia states that fasting causes ketosis not ketoacidosis. Ultimately I think the article is sensationalist and they have probably left out some vital details about the health of the victim.Millions of people have followed VLCD and been fine.
Lets face it, no one knows the 'right way' or 'wrong way' to lose weight, or the right speed. Theres so much contradictory research out there. So we can all only try and find what seems right for ourselves.
Plenty of people risk their lives to lose weight - eg weightloss surgery. Often because they feel they are heading to an early grave anyway.
How sad for the families of these women, I hope the articles prevents other deaths.
I'll admit I don't know a lot about ketoacidosis but here is what I do know as a human biologist. If you do not eat enough glucose (carbs) your liver will convert fat reserves resulting in ketones in the blood.
Metabolised fat can suppy the body with energy (in the form of ketone bodies and fatty acids) however the brain can only get energy from glucose. This means your liver must be able synthesize glucose through gluconeogenesis. A lack of glucose leads to serious problems in brain function and potentially death. If the ketones in the blood reach a certain level then ketoacidosis will occur and this is potentially fatal.
As far as I can see the best way to not put your liver under massive strain is to consume some carbs in your diet. I don't know a huge amount about atkins but I believe you need to eat fruit and veg? This is obviously going to provide glucose that is vital for brain function. I believe much of the issues with atkins come from people completely cutting out all forms of carbs - this is incredibly dangerous and will cause strain on the heart (BTW yes the body will digest cardiac muscle, but before that a whole host of other conditions will effect the heart)
It is those people who decided to completely cut out carbs that have serious problems. Following any diet that cuts out a food group is going to lead to serious health problems whether immediate or in the long run.
Hmm... this sounds like a classic case of the media giving people what they want. Stories like this always get blow out of proportion - anything that says a diet is dangerous, being overweight has benefits or genetics possibly-might-no-definitive-proof predispose you to obesity.
A report was published last year based on one study of statistics (ONE study) that showed in some cases overweight people (not obese) can outlive normal weight people. Needless to say it made headlines all over the UK and USA.
I think on a subconscious level people want to be told not to diet or exercise because it is easier not to (especially if an unhealthy lifestyle has become a lifelong habit), thus they tend to consume this kind of media more readily. I think this to be an unfair case of the media playing on people's vunerability to make money.
is avidlite safe as a vlcd, i am on the meal replacement shakes, each has approx 11g protein and 12g carbs per shake and you can have four per day.
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