A Very Long Moan.

Discussion in 'Lighter Life Forum' started by scooper, 20 May 2007 Social URL.

  1. scooper

    scooper Full Member

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    I know this is a very long post, but I'd really like some advice.Thanks for those of you who do take the time to read it all. It made my own eyes bleed!:break_diet: I'd like to also stress that not once in the past 102 days have I cheated, tasted, dipped my finger in, or let a morsel of food pass these lips. I am to the point of wanting to swap to the Cambridge Diet now. So here's the story and emails:

    During our very last Foundation meeting my LL Counselor decided to focus the last part of the whole meeting on me and my decision to eat when I go home in July. So I took over a week to think about what she said and I emailed her because I felt I could put into words how I felt and the concerns I had. After that paticular group several of the ladies felt that I had been singled out and picked on in a way that went overboard. I have always maintained from the very beginning my intentions to eat when I go home for a visit and to Las Vegas this summer so I really was hurt with my LL Counselor's responses in that group. Am I wrong to still feel as if what I said and asked in my email to not have been addressed and the sole focus about not eating? I want to stress that it's not a typical holiday because I am going home-I don't have to go and eat all the "bad" American food.
    My email to her:

    Hi ***,

    I know how busy you are in class, so I thought maybe it would be best to email you with a few questions I have. As you know, I am SO SO focused on this diet. Today I reached my one hundredth day milestone. It's amazing when I look back over my journey and see how far I've come and what I have learned about my life and ways to improve life as well.

    At our last Foundation meeting we discussed my trip home. I did understand your points and took them in, but I would still like to eat when I go home. I don't plan on going crazy or eating three meals every day for the whole three weeks, but I do want to eat in moderation and have a piece of cornbread(LOL). I just am scared of eating again really, but I know that I can do it and stay focused. I was thinking about using it as an exercise to see what I have learned and what areas I am weak in. I also know that most of the food that I will be eating at home should be for the most part healthy as we plan on BBQ'ing a lot and I can throw some fish on and have some lovely fresh salads. I am not really bothered with the other stuff. In fact, I'd like to keep it ruled out because I'm not there yet and just because I would like to eat doesn't mean I should go and have the whole hog so to speak. I plan to go back on the diet the Saturday we return and understand that I have until around November/December before I get near my goal weight.

    The question is how do I go about it? Should I start eating lightly the week before we leave so that I can or won't be ill on the way? I'd like to maintain three shakes a day and only have one meal a day and some days only have packs as I don't see the need to eat every single day while I am there. Will I still have a place in Development if I have been gone for three Sundays in a row? Do I need to purchase a whole three weeks worth of packs or will it be ok to use what extra packs I already have? I know this is a lot of questions and a very long email. It's just that there is only nine weeks until I travel and I am starting to get very scared about what to do.

    Her response:I completely understand where you are coming from, but I cannot stress enough that you must keep your total focus on where you are going to!! It is, of course, your decision and always will be, the only advise I can give you is based on my own experience, other client experiences and obviously the guidance within the Programme.

    At the end of the day this is only ONE holiday of many more to come. I know you are going home to see your mum but surely wouldn't you like her to see how determined you are to achieve your goal and get your health and life back, she would be so proud of you. The cornbread will always be there and just think how sweeter it will taste when you are a size 12! I am sure your family, your memories and everything else you are hoping to see whilst you are there, will all still be the same with or without food. I know you say you are very focussed and will get back on as soon as you get home, but is it worth the risk that you may not be so focussed once you have eaten, your mindset is changed and is never as strong as it is now.

    I had many clients with the same dilema over Xmas with all the reasons and justifications, and the resolve they would be back on track straight after. Unfortunately the only clients that are still on track or maintaining their target weight, are those that DID remain abstinent over Xmas. I have spoken to some of those that did eat and they have all said they wished they hadn't and some have said they are coming back on the programme, but so far still have not managed to get back 'in the zone'. Although they admitted it was very hard, those that did keep their resolve are so glad they did not eat.

    What you are faced with, is can you make a painful short term sacrifice for your long term gains?? Bear in mind that it is nothing to do with the food or what you do or do not eat (healthily or otherwise), it is the fact that you have made a commitment to yourself to get to a target weight. If you break that commitment for one holiday, it is so easy to justify breaking it again for some other 'occasion'.

    To try and help you arrive at your decision, write down what your thoughts and feelings will be when you return, if you did stick to your commitment and continue to lose weight, and then how you think you will feel if you decide to eat. What will your thoughts and feelings be just before you step on my scales? and more importantly, where will you be this time next year??

    Unfortunately we are all good at moving our boundaries to fit 'certain' justifications, but this is why we have a weight problem. We satisfy the short term need and hope that the long term will still happen.

    I am sorry Sally if this all appears a bit harsh, but I have seen the results of others that have not achieved their goal weight within the FIRST hit, so my only advise without a shadow of doubt would be...... REMAIN ABSTINENT it will be so worth it. Remember NOTHING tastes as good as being slim - even cornbread!!

    Hope you are feeling better with your back and hopefully see you on Sunday. You have plenty of time to consider your thoughts and everything I have said above, but please think long term and not short term. This is a win-win situation, but only if you are prepared to make the short term sacrifice.
     
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  3. Summerskye

    Summerskye Gold Member

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    It's really not my place to comment on your Counsellor's response as I'm sure she wrote it entirely with your best interests at heart.

    You've obviously done extremely well remaining abstinent for 102 days and you must be hugely proud of yourself and your achievements.

    I hope you enjoy your trip home, and if you do decide to switch to CD on your return that you'll continue your weightloss journey with as much enthusiasm and success as you obviously have to date.

    If it helps at all, all my clients who have switched to CD from LL (and there are an awful lot of them) have found it a pleasurable experience and seem to enjoy the greater variety of flavours and products - and, most importantly, continued to lose weight at the same rate as they did on LL :)

    Love
     
  4. KD

    KD Gone fishing

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    Oh dear. What a difficult one.

    Your LL counsellor speaks wise words, but where does that leave you?

    I can understand your decision to eat. I have to admit, I would do the same if I was in your shoes even though it is often a bad move.

    She obviously doesn't want to see you fall and can see that your decision to eat will take you close to the cliff edge.

    Really, I suppose you need to know she will be there for you when you return. Okay, she might not agree with what you are going to do, but you will want to move on from that and know she is there to support you for the rest of your journey.

    It would have been nice if she could have given you some advice as to how to prepare for this journey, since your decision is final, and at the end of the day, this is your journey, but in a way, I can see why she hasn't.

    Maybe you can leave it that you will do your best to do what is right, then continue as planned. That might get her off your back.

    Are there any other LLC's locally?
     
  5. fatpossum

    fatpossum Silver Member

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    Hi Scooper,

    Do members of your family know that you are doing LL? Would you feel awkward around them if you had to stick to packs?

    I am planning to eat "real food" during the early part of June and I have intended to do so since I began LL at the beginning of April. My Grandmother is having a big birthday then and I have no intention of drawing attention to myself by not eating. I know that such thinking is anathema to most of my LL sisters and brothers but that is my decision.

    Like you I have no intention of stuffing my face and have my healthy eating strategy already in place - I can decide what to eat and what not to eat and I will aim to eat along the lines of the Atkins diet. I may have a couple of glasses of wine and I may not - but that isn't that important to me.

    I don't know how indepth your LL goes into TA (I studied it in University and have used it in my work) but her e-mail sounds very 'Negative Controlling Parent' - very preachy and not recognising that you are an adult - bit ironic isn't it. She also sounds quite forceful - but that is probably her stuff.

    Free yourself up from all outside pressures and you decide what you will do. Sounds like you have done really well during your 100 + days and I have no doubt that you won't allow yourself to sabotage that success (no matter how good the corn bread - Yum!).

    So take your decision and get comfortable with it. You don't need to justify yourself or explain your rationale to anyone. You don't even need to keep talking about it. You are a big girl now!

    X
     
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  6. scooper

    scooper Full Member

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    Hiya :0). Yes, my family at home know and are so very supportive. They know how much my Husband and I want to have another child and we can't do that unless I lose weight for IVF. That's my goal so I know there is NO way that I won't stick to it.

    My Mother is a nurse and she's already planning some really great meals-that means meals that I won't like so I won't feel guilty having a lovely banana or strawberry shake while they eat something vile like chicken livers or hamburgers. She's good like that. LOL.

    I just want to be able to enjoy my Grandmother's Birthday-like I told her in group-my grandmother is old and I'm not going to have that many more birthday's with her and I don't get the opportunity to just nip out and see my family every other day or even once a month. Or the Grand Banquet Dinner my husband I are going to attend, and some other special outings that we will NEVER ever have the opportunity to do again. Sure, I probably can do them without eating, but like you said-I'm a big girl and I made the decision to eat there.

    I suppose I just wanted to feel like I had her support. I had so many emotions running through me when I posted this and I still do that I did feel a bit like a parent had told me no. I am working through it though and in my heart of hearts I know that I've made the right and final decision. I just needed a place to vent and this forum seems to be the place I come to to find the support that I need from reading other people's post or vent since I started this diet!
     
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  7. KittyB

    KittyB Gold Member

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    This is such a tricky area, and I really do feel for you.
    Personally, if I hadn't broken abstinance, I'd probably have been near goal by now. However, it should be no measure against how anybody else would do as we are all so very different.

    Your LLC does make some valid points, but I agree they do appear to come across as a critical parent kinda way.
    Just playing devils advocate here though...are we just reading it in that way because we are the adaptive child who wants to stamp their feet over this or are we acting in adult mode and making our choices accordingly?
    (I'm including myself in this statement, so please don't read it as me saying you're stamping your feet)

    I think you have to do what's right for you, she's asking you to do a pro's cons type list and work through a thought record.
    If you can make the decision in the adult mode and not feel the guilt of what your LLC feels is right or wrong then you will have made the right decision for you.

    You have a goal the achieve for your IVF, you aren't going to lose sight of that because it's so important to you. If you plan your choices and don't deviate you'll succeed.

    You know if you did want to move on to CD you could follow one of the other plans to allow for a small amount of food, and still follow the guidelines of the diet whilst you're away?

    All the best

    Kitty
     
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  8. Heaven can wait

    Heaven can wait Silver Member

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    Hi

    Your LLC seems to be taking a hard line with you, she obviously knows you better than we do, and probaly really wants you to succeed, but I think that when someone takes such an inflexible stance we become more determined do the opposite. She must realise that this is a big risk, and as such she is gambling with your future. I personally had this dilema recnetly over a holiday, it wasnt as muchof a momentus once only special occasion like yours ,and I was only half way through foundation, but my LLC was brilliant.
    I think I was kinda being manipulated in a very very clever way, becuase I didnt even know I was untill after I got back from holiday. I will tell you what she did.
    I told her about it , expecting her to say , you are still in foundation ,you made a commitment to 100 days , dont eat abstinance , blah blah abstinance, blah blah.....
    But she did the opposite , told me the options I had and pretty much said...
    right this is what you can do and this will be the likely outcome. She went through using 3 packs and having a meal in the evening, what to eat, what to avoid, suggested portion size, even said have a glass of wine!
    She told me about the glycogen stores filling up and that if I got straight back on when I returned , there would be a slight increase in weight but not fat just the stores filled up etc...
    She gave me confidence to know that , if this is what I wanted to do , she would be there for me when I came back.

    Obviously she did say that if I did decide to stay in abstinace , that would be great but she didnt play the controling parent , so I felt no need to be a rebellious child.
    She arranged to weigh me early before I went and to pick up fmy packs for the trip. I had such a great loss that week (because I think she weighed me in the early morning , I usually get weighed at 9pm) clever that!. I was so spured on , that I completely changed my mind to have a break from abstinance. I know its becuase she 'gave me permission to eat ' that I decided not to, and I think she knew what she was doing, but I didnt! I did eat very small amounts of grilled chicken and fish with green salad and checked with Ketostix the next day , but I was in control and still maged to lose 3lbs that week.
    Now you are going for much longer, and I suppose , she may be worried that it gives you a lot more chances to go wrong, but if you take it a day at time I'm sure you will be fine.
    The important thing I think here is that you must feel that she supports you in the adult decision you have made , and that she will be there for you when you get back.
    I just feel that you dont seeem to have that confidence in her and maybe a change to CD might be neccessary. We definately dont need to be made a failure by the one person who should be 100% behind us do we?
    Good luck and have a fab trip whatever you decide to do.
     
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  9. flirty40greeneyes

    flirty40greeneyes Busy busy busy!!

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    Ok Sally - I did LL/CD back in 2005 lost 4stone in 4months - went from a size 20/22 to a size 12/14. Thought I had it sorted!!! Put on weight last year (about 2stone) due to emotional family problems and now have been dieting SS-ing on and off since about August last year. No more weight has gone on but soooooo hard to lose it.

    I'm a CDC and I'd give the same advice to my clients as your LLC gave to you - DON'T eat ... the cornbread etc will be there when you are slim etc ... BUT if you chose to not go with my advice (and that's all it is) then i'd help you choose healthy options for whilst you were away and certainly be glad to see you when you came back. Many of my clients have done the same .... and ALL say it is sooooooo much harder the 2nd/3rd etc time around - really the first time is magical. If I could stop you with any wise words i would - but if you are determined to break it then I will wish you a great time - eat healthily, plenty of water, and good luck on getting back on it when you come home!

    Have a wonderful time whatever you decide - I'm sure your family will be so proud of you and pleased to see you. xxx
     
  10. Betty Boo

    Betty Boo Full Member

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    Hi,

    This really is a tricky one isn't it. I think really when it comes down to it, you have plenty of time over the next couple of weeks to think about this resonably before you make a decision. Perhaps do the pros and cons list and then write beside this the reasns why and show your LLC if you feel you can.

    Your LLC has made some valid points and is obviously very supportive, even if she appears a little blunt and controlling. I don't know if she knows the reason that you are losing weight is for IVF (I am sure you have other reasons too)? Perhaps she has been through a similar situation and knows that this is more important to you normally to remain abstinent and reach that goal then having 3 weeks of eating a little on your holiday.

    I am in week 12, go into week 13 on Thursday and know that I am not going to make it to the lower end of my goal weight for the end of foundation. I am going straight into management as I don't feel I can cope with the pressure any longer. I also have a holiday coming up in Sept and an anniversay with my bf in July. It is so important to me that I can go out (haven't been out since before xmas) and eat a salad on my anniversary and I want to be eating more or less all foods when I am on holiday, so I completely understand where you are coming from.

    I imagine your counsellor is thinking America, fast food, fatty greasy cakes, huge portions etc. If she hasn't done LL herself it may well be that she doesn't realise how attractive a colourful salad or cornbread is.

    Whatever you decide must be your decision or you won't stick to it. You are not letting yourself down and will have plenty of time to get back on track when you get home, it may just take an extra 2-3 weeks to reach your goal weight.

    Good luck with this toughie and let us know how you go.

    xx :)
     
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  11. JasmineCDC

    JasmineCDC Full Member

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    Hi Sally,

    I'm afraid that I'd have to offer you the same advice as your LLC and Beverley, from my own personal experiences - it is such a battle to clamber back on the wagon a second time.

    However, I can't say exactly how it would be for you - I can't judge you by my own personal experiences, so maybe you could go away on hols, eat healthily and with your great focus, immediately get back onto SS on your return. I've seen a few of my CD clients struggle to do this though, so I always urge people to remain abstinent if they can at all.

    Whatever you decide to do, I hope you have a wonderful time. You have done brilliantly so far and you should be very proud of your achievements.

    Keep us posted, and above all - enjoy your holiday.

    Lots of love,

    Jas.xx
     
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  12. Sez

    Sez has started again!!

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    I just wanted to say thanks for this thread, as it has made me think a great deal about our holiday to Spain in August. I know I wont be at my goal by then, and my intention had been to try a kind of "mini-management" whilst away, involving 3 packs a day and a protien meal at night (although I was planning on one proper paella whilst away). We havent had a proper "just us four" family holiday for years, unless you count camping in the rain near Alton Towers last summer! I doubt we will be able to afford another for quite some time too, so I am really having trouble reconciling with this and LL.

    Your thread has really given me more to think about, and I welcome that. (OMG I am more adult than I thought!!!LOL)

    Anyway, good luck with whatever choice you make, and I hope its the right one for you.

    xx
     
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  13. scooper

    scooper Full Member

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    I love this forum :). I've said that many times and I'm sure I'll say it some more. I had my Sunday WI today and I was pleased that I had lost another seven pounds in eleven days. I missed going last Sunday's to my first development groupbecause of my back being injured and today I just went to the PI.
    I spoke to her and I told her that I had taken what she said in and I spoke to one of the other ladies from my old group there and then my friend and I spoke on the phone. She really gave me the support I needed and when I came on here and read this and it just boosts my confidence to know that people ARE going over the same journey but on a different path as me, so I am not alone completely. That gives me the knowledge to know that I'm going to make the right decisions for me.

    I've contacted a CB Counselor and I'm going to have a chat with the lady who sounds very lovely and do some fact finding and I might just switch over, but I need to meet her and really explore this option. It might be the best thing since I can follow one of their low calorie programs while at home very easily and bring myself back down to the lowest one the last week there so it will be easier to come back to SS'ing.

    I am definitely going to eat when I go home. I am going to take in what everyone on here is saying and prepare myself for a hard road when I come back, but one that I can manage hopefully. If I can stop having all that fatty American food and give up Mountain Dew and Taco Bell for the past five years, stop smoking:)cry: )for the past three and a half, and then give up all the lovely British food I have come to love for over a hundred days and not look back once with regret-I know I can do it again. I am determined, supported with family, friends, reading people's blogs, and on this great forum. I did my pro's and con's list. I talked it through. I'm there. I'm ready. I'm still terrified that the first bite of food in my mouth will put 30lbs back on, but we'll get there and we'll do it(now I have a mulitple personality disorder from all this thinking I've done today) successfully.

    It makes me more determined to say I CAN do it because someone's telling me I can't do it. Rebellious child alert! LOL. I'm just kidding! Thanks again everyone and thank you for the reputation comments it made me cry a bit to know that what I said mattered to other people. My husband said it was just because it's TOTM and I'm an emotional old bag, but I know in my heart it's because you guys are wonderful and better than any CBT you get in group IMO.
     
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  14. AmandaJayne

    AmandaJayne Trainee Maintainer

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    This is a real conumdrum Sally. I can see it from both sides. I very much like the advice that Heavencanwait's LLC gave her - just giving her the facts and letting her make her own decision without judging or controlling, and being there for her when she returned from holiday to offer support afterwards (when she would really need it).

    Sally, it is probably hard for your LLC to condone you eating while on holiday at this stage of your weightloss, only because she knows from others' experiences that it usually makes going back to abstinence afterward so much more difficult, and makes the subsequent journey harder than ever. From the posts I've read on Minis, that does seem to be the case. It is what prevented me from straying when I went on holiday and went through Christmas and New Year without eating.

    I sympathise with what you say about not seeing family very often, particularly as they live so far away, but won't they support you with the packs and be happy to adapt things to fit in with your requirements? The fact that being successful will mean bringing forward your ability to have IVF and start a family is surely a major, major reason for staying on the programme at this time.

    However, you are an adult and have made an adult decision, and at this point you need advice about handling the holiday with eating real food and packs.

    The substitution of protein and veg for a pack every day sounds reasonable, but more important is dealing with the crooked thoughts which will attempt to persuade you to eat other things during the day. "Just one will be ok" syndrome. One may lead to another unless you can put in place safeguards to stop it happening. Thought records, pros and cons lists, writing a daily journal - all these may be enough to prevent you sabotaging your superb weightloss to date.

    Being vigilent for events which may be a problem and planning strategies to minimise any chance of eating or overeating at these times. Forward planning anyway is something I recommend because you are less likely to make costly mistakes if you have safeguards in place. What I mean is that I have to ensure that I have enough of the right foods n my fridge or I may be tempted to eat something on the spur of the moment which may lead me on to eat something else, and so on. I have to watch out for bread products, jam, chocolate, cheese, to name a few.

    So,

    Plan ahead for each day - what you are intending to eat, when, where, how etc.

    Write it down.

    Stick to your plan.

    When the crooked thoughts try to interfere, tell them to shut up and sit down!

    I hope that, whatever you decide, you have a fantastic holiday, and that you soon can become eligible for IVF and start your family.
     
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  15. scooper

    scooper Full Member

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    Thanks AJ,

    The only time I am worried about not being able to control what I eat is when we are in Vegas for the Grand Banquet because I don't know what they are serving and the trip to the Grand Canyon because the traditional Indian BBQ lunch is included and I again don't know what that will consist of. For the other days I have already researched the hotel we are going too and I will be able to have my shake/bar while Husband goes has breakfast and if I choose to eat that night there's a great seafood buffet that I will be able to choose exactly what goes on my plate and control what goes in my mouth.
    As far as puddings goes, I've got that one in the bag. The only weakness I've ever had in that department is Reeses Pieces Candy. I almost never order or have a pudding when we are out or at someone's house. My main weakness will be cheese-so IF I have cheese I am going to make sure it's just a tiny bit that's been grated up to look more. I am going to avoid having it whenver I am out and ideally I'd like to leave that off the list until I come back and finally go into a normal maintenance program. I really did make a list of pro's and con's and what food I'd like to eat while there and what food I'd like not to eat.

    My family is so supportive so they will understand when I don't partake of their meals on most days and have my lovely little shakes/bars while they eat. I will be able to control the shopping too(except Hubby's sneaky little throw stuff in the buggy when I'm not looking habit) so I know what will be available in the fridge at my house(I am going home to a familiar place and surroundings which is a definite positive). I'll have internet access everywhere we go, so if I feel a weak moment coming on I will log on and take a breather on here so that I can regain my mindset. I'm really focused on doing this and I know I can do it successfully.
     
  16. Betty Boo

    Betty Boo Full Member

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    Oh Scooper, I am so pleased that you have replied back with a postive tone. I get the impression that you are of course very excited to go back home (who wouldn't be) and I imagine although you are nervous you are looking forward to putting into practice some of the bits you have learned throughout foundation and while you are eating.

    It sounds like you have done your homework, know what your goals are and are taking responsibility which is something I doubt you even considered before.

    Stick to what you you feel is right and with the support you have at home I am sure you will be fine.

    Good luck with CB, let us know how you go with the change and I hope you have a fab holiday and get the results you want for IVF.

    GOOD LUCK xx
     
  17. In search of me

    In search of me Silver Member

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    Just read this & pleased you've resolved it for yourself and, like others, can see both sides! You are an adult and having done SOOOO well am sure you'll be able to get back into it and there will be pleanty of support around when you need it - wherever you are in the world! Have a slice of corn bread for me! I used to work for an American family & one of my fave dishes ever is chicken, gravy, mash, corn bread & sweetcorn rom the take out in Dallas!
     
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  19. scooper

    scooper Full Member

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    LOL. ISOM! I have been a good girl and asked my mom to make the cornbread in a muffin pan so that the portion would be controlled. I would offer to smuggle you some back but you can't have it yet!

    I think I lied about not liking puddings. I saw a commercial for a cadbury double chocolate bar and I think I mentally tried to lick the screen:eek: .
     
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  20. In search of me

    In search of me Silver Member

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    Ohh yummy - can you send me the recipe please?!! Can then try some when I get to the end!! Plus remember you can get reeses over here & hersheys kisses!!
     
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  21. scooper

    scooper Full Member

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    You can get Reeses Cups here, not reeses pieces! Have you ever seen the movie ET? If so it's the candies that Elliot was feeding ET to come out of the garden shed. I don't know how to post images here or I would.

    I love to use recipezaar.com for recipes, so I'd point you in that direction for you to find the cornbread recipe you like the best. There is one recipe that I do like that you might it's: Basic Corn Muffins - Allrecipes this site converts it so it makes it easy to cook over here.
     
  22. In search of me

    In search of me Silver Member

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    ooo lovey thanks - I saved it from when you posted previously so def one to try when I am able!!
     
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