Dog behaviour help

No, I don't want to give up on him. But I really could do with my parents and the OH to be behind me on it, else I'm swimming against a tide of potential (but hopefully not) "I told you so's". They don't want him to go, but they also don't want their daughter to potentially get hurt, and obviously don't like seeing me upset and stressed over Hugo.

With regards insurance, I need to do some research. I did speak to PetPlan on the phone, but the sales woman was incredibly pushy, and had me down on a £45 a month plan, which is above my means. I've had a collie before, or rather, he wasn't mine, but I was the primary carer, and he had a glaucoma and leukaemia, and cost well over £1,000 in the end, uninsured. So I need to read up on it, and sift through the jargon to work out what I need with regards things like broken legs, diabetes, leukaemia, kidney failure, and the like. Oh so cheery!

I won't be able to see her at 8pm as I'm working 5pm-midnight, and she isn't that local, but I will speak to her about him, and arrange something. I spoke to her before regards it, but then he was fine off the lead, but no good on the lead. She gave me some good tips, but did point out that she needed to see him, but was about to go on holiday.

He has been very growly since we got in at 9am, every slightest noise he is growling at or barking at. He is still probably very wound up, and me being upset is probably not helping!

And I agree, he doesn't seem very comfy with other dogs. I usually distract him by throwing the ball, which he *must* fetch, its a compulsion.

I've calmed down now, and the behaviourist is the way forward. His aggression is sporadic, he has never gone for me, he hasn't drawn blood or savaged anyone, so I feel there is hope for him. I'm one of these people who instantly jumps to what the worst case scenario is, and then starts to panic. Then thinks "what if", and panics some more.

I'm not sure on her name, I just have her number, and I guess I can't publish it on here, as that would be advertising. It's the 01625 area.
 
I have rang the Behaviourist. She is coming on the 17th June, and it's £90. I have to have the OH here at the time, and a parent, as they also walk him sometimes.

She said he seems to be displaying typical collie behaviour, running after people, and that it sounds like his confidence is very low. I've to keep him on a lead at all times from now on, and she will teach me how to muzzle train him, to reduce his stress regarding it, as at the vets especially, he is incredibly dangerous.

When people come round, they are to ignore him, sit down, and not look at him. They can throw him treats, but they are not to look at him until he has calmed down. Thankfully I don't have many visitors, so I'm not too concerned about that for the time being.
 
Definitely don't give up on Hugo. I was in exactly the same frame of mind before we had the behaviourist visit us. Bear in mind my dog had bitten people 3 times and drawn blood on every occasion and who also got into dog fights at every opportunity. I truely believed we would have to have him put down. A visit from the behaviourist and a complete lifestyle change have turned things around and I now have a completely different dog. At our socialisation walk yesterday my dog was being used as the stable dog to introduce to agressive dogs as he is now completely unreactive. It's not easy and it takes a lot of work and dedication but the prize is so worth it. A happy relaxed sociable dog.

I know you are not keen on the muzzle idea but you need to throw out the bad associations or caring about what others will think. You're walks will be more relaxed as you won't have to be watching him and holding him tight every second. Don't see it as a punishment for Hugo but as a step you are taking as a responsible dog owner. We muzzled Zac whilst we were training, it meant he could make mistakes (as animals will do when learning) but we didn't have the dire consequences we would have had without a muzzle.

Let us know when you have booked the behaviourist.
 
Sorry just seen that you have booked the appointment. The advise sounds good so far.
 
It's a one-off fee for half a day, with follow up phone calls, although I'm sure if I wanted her out again, I would get charged again. I could ring around for a cheaper one, but when the vet recommends someone, I kinda think I should go with what he recommends!

It is a relief to have her booked, now I just have to convince my mother. She thinks the whole behaviourist thing is a load of tripe, along the lines of herbal healing type things. But when the option is that, or he is put down (which even the behaviourist said would be the other path), then I opt for that. Granted I'm now poor for a couple of months, but S**t happens :)
 
Buggerations. OH reckons he can't get that date off, and he HAS to be there. Fantastic.

*sigh*
 
Well done on booking the behaviourist! also from what you have put she sounds good :D

Muzzle training is good. I have muzzle trained Carla for the vets as that is her worst nightmare, ie stranger, confined space = growl and snap as shes totally terrified.

Hugo, if fear agressive is only scared of something someone he doesn't know or understand, ie this does not include you or your children. My daughter was just 5 when I got Carla and she can do anything with her. Carla adores her, yet a strange child could not, if you get what I mean. Its just that, fear, Hugo is telling you hes scared. Many times they are things we cannot understand them being scared of.

The behavourist should assess Hugo, give advise and follow up with a report, so when you break the £90 down into time its actually a very good price. I was charged £250....

They also usually give on going telephone and email support which is invaluable.

I can't emphasise enough how good the dogpages forums are for help and general advise in the meantime and afterwards. There are many on there with dogs like that and many very good behavourists are members and give advise. Its just good having people in the same situation.

I can totally see your Mum's point of view but do reassure her Hugo is just scared.
 
Need to discuss the dates with him later. We only get Fridays off you see, and at the minute everyone else is taking holidays at his work, so he might have to work Fridays right up until we go away in July. Worst comes to worst, I will HAVE to do it without him - it's mainly me which walks him anyway, and if he does take him out, I am ALWAYS there too.
 
Rang the mother. She isn't very understanding. She wanted to take him out this afternoon to the park, which I said is fine, but she isn't to let him off. The conversation ended with her saying she would take him for a quick walk on his lead, but she thinks I'm gonna end up with a sad and miserable dog, and I'm better off giving him to someone who can take better care of him with regards his aggression. She seems to think there is this magical house somewhere with acres and acres of fields in which Hugo can run around like some kinda Disney character.

So once again, I'm in bloody bits. I tried explaining to her all of what the behaviourist said to me, but it seems to skim over her head. She seems to think its like a switch has gone off in his head and he is a nasty dog from now on.

So I'm gonna speak to the OH later, and it seems like I'm going it alone. Mum has such a simplistic view of dogs. When she brought him round the other day he didn't have his Halti on. I questioned her, and she said it was only a short walk home, so didn't see the point. So lo an behold, when I put the Halti on him, he isn't keen, as he has tasted his pulling-during-walking freedom, and likes it!

My head is firmly on the brick wall, and is repetitively hitting it!
 
I completely understand family members not understanding why your furry family is so important. We got hassle from my Grandparents & In Laws when one of our bunnies was sick.. They just simply said to us, he only cost you £20, if the treatment costs much more than that then maybe you should have him put down. I couldn't believe it! The treatment for him ended up being around £70 I think but he's doing very well now.

£90 is a great price for a behaviourist & I really think it will help. I don't understand how a person could not believe in it being a useful tool, it's the same as if you had an unruly child! You'd seek advice & guidance from other people.. At the end of the day, you have to learn why he's behaving the way he is so that you can stop the cycle before it begins.

Try to stay strong, I know it's hard when everyone's doubting you but it will get better. & you'll be the one saying 'I told you so'!

I had a woman tell me that my dog was living a miserable life yesterday! Her dog was eyeing Sox & she told me that her dog was obsessive over dogs on leads, she might act up (Put YOUR dog on a lead then!). Anyway, I mentioned that Sox used to be allowed off the lead & loved it but because of his diagnosis, he's not allowed to run about any more. The woman looked at me & said 'isn't life about having fun though? It's not really fair on him'.. I was so shocked! I simply said to her that one hour of running around equals an entire night of agony for Sox.. That's not really worth it. Neither is the bill to the emergency Vet of almost £200 because he can't walk or sit down properly!
 
Yeah, mum is convinced Hugo will be miserable on the lead. OH doesn't believe in behaviourists either. We took him out earlier, and kept him on the lead until we were in an open area with no people. As soon as people arrived, he went straight back on the lead. OH had the lead, not me, and even with the "master" there, he growled at a little toddler and a man on a bike (he was on the lead for both). It was upsetting, but I'm glad that he did it when OH was there, as I swear everyone thinks I'm making it up!

I, however, am not letting him off the lead when he is with me. Walk up to the park tomorrow morning, then purchasing a muzzle once the shops are open, then waiting till the behaviourist can come. Its difficult when everyone is against it, and have enough scare stories to sink a ship - "I know someone who breeds collies. She can't even walk her males as they are so aggressive" - "I told you you shouldn't have got a collie" - "I told you you should have got a female" - "I thought you said he was fine off the lead".

If I could find a home for him where he could be happy, like on a farm, then I would let him go. But I cannot have him put down without trying to help him.

Wow. 12 hours of crying. I'm blummin' exhausted!
 
Aw, Hugo won't be miserable on a lead. He might have to get used to it but he will enjoy it. Sox has been on his lead for a few weeks now & he's perfectly content :) He doesn't understand how running around after puppies tangles Mummy up though. Lol!

It makes me nervous that your family members will be letting Hugo off the lead without a muzzle. Are they ready to explain to a mother why he's bitten her child? It might not come to that.. But I am worried it just might.

I've never really known collies to be aggressive dogs.. It's more about the owner than the dog most of the time anyway. You are taking positive steps towards changing his behaviour, & yours at the same time, which gives this pup another chance at a loving family life. In a few months time, he will be much better behaved & this will be a distant memory. As for getting a female instead.. That makes no sense really. Each dog is different. I have better luck with male animals, I find them much less aggressive! Has he been neutered?

If you decide you don't want him any more, are you allowed to rehome him yourself or do you have to take him back to the shelter? When we got Sox, we had to sign a contract saying that if, for any reason, things didn't work out, we must return him to the RSPCA.

Try to keep calm & think about the long term. Things are difficult now but they will get better :)
 
The most important piece of advice you have been given is to keep Hugo muzzled when he is out. You would never forgive yourself if me maimed, or worse, a child. There is no way you can compare or justify not using a muzzle on him with the excuse that he will not like it. You have had all the warnings from him that he is capable no matter what the reason.

I admire your tenacity with him and understand your love for him, no one understands that better but please, please take great care when you have him out.

It is very worrying that the other key figures in his life are not behind him in the way you are.

My heart goes out to you as yo obviously think such a lot of him.

01625 is South Cheshire, my closest friend lives in Alderley Edge and she is 01625 and my brother is in Henbury, nr Macclesfield and he is 01625 as well.

Coincidentally I have a friend who is a dog behaviorist specialising in collies in that area. Her name is Val Neff.

Good luck with Hugo,


hugs xxxx
 
Tootz, just wanted to send you a big hug xxx I have a lump in my throat as I type as I can feel how much you want this to work for Hugo. I really hope that you can get your family on side and that you can make this work for all of you. Meanwhile, keep him on the lead, and do try a soft muzzle, it won't hurt him and will give you some much needed reassurance while you are out.
Take care, and stay strong xxx
 
Took him out yesterday on his lead. He wasn't overly impressed, but he didn't bark or growl at anyone. I kept him on a short lead, and made sure we crossed the road when near people etc. Out today to get an extending lead and a soft muzzle. I've already said to mum that if she can find this magical loving home for him, then I will give him up. There is also a border collie rescue centre near here, so I don't think the future is so bleak as I did on Monday. The behaviourist is still coming. Hopefully OH can be there, but his work is such a pain at the moment, there is no guarantee he can be there ANY Friday. Mum is coming, but I might insist that dad doesn't, as he thinks its all a load of c**p, and will probably tell the lady this, then get his newspaper out, which doesn't help anyone. Mum is slightly more receptive towards this kinda thing.

So, the lady is still coming on the 17th June, and I know how to deal with Hugo from now until then. I still feel so sorry for him as what he loved doing has been taken away from him, but I keep telling him it won't be for long, and that if he is a good boy, then he can chase the ball again one day. And he still gets lots of love and hugs from us. Poor wee bugger
 
You are doing the best thing for him & it's hard, I know, but you should be proud of yourself.

It won't be long until you see the Behaviourist :) I'm sure she's come across plenty of people before who don't really believe in it.. But at the end of the day, if she can provide results then what more is there to say!

Best of luck from now until the 17th. You are controlling him well with the lead & muzzle. Do you have a garden that he could play fetch in? I do feel awful for Sox when he can't play like he used to.. & this came on very suddenly so it was so hard on us all.
 
Mother has been in touch with the dogs home, and they think I should take him to dog school! I'm having trouble with seeing what is better about dog school. Surely a home visit is better? Then she can help me when I have visitors, when the postman comes, stop him barking at people when they walk past, and the like. Or perhaps doggy school would help with getting him used to people and dogs, then the rest I can tackle on my own? *sigh*
 
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