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Going out of ketosis

Sarah_P

Happy to be slim at last
G: 11st0lb
#1
As most of you know, I am doing a VLCD with a low carb evening meal. This is one of the Exante plans and is supposed to keep me in ketotis. I am finding though that I am going out of it. Do any of you know if this is quite common?

My daily calorie intake is around 800, so that should be low enough to keep me in ketosis shouldn't it?

The carbs in the VLCD products vary. Shakes and soups are quite low, but bars are quite high.

Do you think it's the combination of too many carbs knocking me out, even thought my calorie intake is still low?

I have been drinking tons of water today and peeing a lot. Could it be that?

Sorry for all the questions. I am just a bit confused as to whether it's an issue or not or if I just shouldn't worry about it. :confused:
 
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KD

Gone fishing
#2
I am finding though that I am going out of it.
How do you know you are going out of it?

My daily calorie intake is around 800, so that should be low enough to keep me in ketosis shouldn't it?
Ketosis has nothing to do with calories. More to do with carbs.
The carbs in the VLCD products vary. Shakes and soups are quite low, but bars are quite high.
Well, that will depend on how high and how carb sensitive you are.

I have been drinking tons of water today and peeing a lot. Could it be that?
Doesn't have anything to do with it, but it does give me a clue as to why you may think you are in and out of ketosis. Are you using the stix to test? If so, ignore them ;)
 

Sarah_P

Happy to be slim at last
G: 11st0lb
#3
Thanks for the reply. Yes am using a stick to test.

I read that VLCDs put you into ketosis due to lack of energy (kcals) going in and therefore you burn fat due to very low intake. And that low carb diets put you in by using protein first and then burning fat when that's all gone. Will try to find the post that I read it on.

OK, will ignore the stixs and just get on with the programme and work on the basis that it's designed to work and see how it goes.

Think I might lay off the bars for a few days though also.

Thanks
 
S: 14st0lb C: 12st3lb G: 9st7lb BMI: 28.5 Loss: 1st11lb(12.76%)
#4
If you have drank a larger amount of water than normal then the ketones in your wee will be diluted so the ketostix wont how as many of them as they normally would.
You are right about how ketosis works for VLCD and Low Carb.
How many carbs are in the shakes, soups and bars? I did W8 for a while and just with shakes/soups this was around 50g carbs a day. This is around about the limit for carbs for staying in ketosis I think.

Critical Carbohydrate Level for Losing (CCLL)

In the Atkins diet, the Critical Carbohydrate Level for Losing (CCLL) is the maximum number of grams of carbohydrates a day a person can consume and still continue to lose weight. Eating more carbohydrates causes weight loss to stop or weight gain to begin
The CCLL is measured in the beginning of the Ongoing Weight Loss phase and again at the beginning of the Pre-Maintenance phase of the diet..
Determine your CCLL by carefully controlling your carb intake and measuring your weight. Starting from a daily carbohydrate intake level where you are losing weight, increase your daily carbohydrate intake by 5 grams each week until you stop losing weight. Then back off 5 grams.
Your CCLL will typically be between 15 and 60 grams of carbohydrates per day, depending on your metabolic resistance. Dr Atkins reports that regular exercisers (5 times a week for 45 minutes) may have a CCLL between 60 and 90 grams of carbohydrate a day.
Your CCLL may vary as you adjust to the low carbohydrate diet, and will vary according to how much you exercise.
 

KD

Gone fishing
#5
I read that VLCDs put you into ketosis due to lack of energy (kcals) going in and therefore you burn fat due to very low intake.
Well, it's sort of like that, but not because it's a VLCD. You can be in ketosis on much higher calories. Ketosis your body is drawing on your fat stores for energy instead of carbs.

The fact that it's a VLCD just means the weight will come off quicker because you are on a low calorie intake. Nothing really to do with ketosis.

Having said that, it would be hard to do a VLCD without being in ketosis (and possibly unsafe), as ketosis helps the hunger pangs and the protein levels help reduce the amount of lean mass burned.
 

Sarah_P

Happy to be slim at last
G: 11st0lb
#6
If you have drank a larger amount of water than normal then the ketones in your wee will be diluted so the ketostix wont how as many of them as they normally would.
You are right about how ketosis works for VLCD and Low Carb.
How many carbs are in the shakes, soups and bars? I did W8 for a while and just with shakes/soups this was around 50g carbs a day. This is around about the limit for carbs for staying in ketosis I think.
Thanks Rach. The carb contents are:
Shake 3.45
Soup 9.1
Bar 18

So with the three for the day I am just over 30g. Then I have protein and lower carb veg. I am probably up to 50g per day.
 

KD

Gone fishing
#7
I did W8 for a while and just with shakes/soups this was around 50g carbs a day. This is around about the limit for carbs for staying in ketosis I think.
Just for interests sake, 50g is often the amount low carbers will treat as a magic number but it really varies from person to person.

To be sure you don't go into ketosis, you need to have a minimum of 100-120g of carbs :)
 
S: 14st0lb C: 12st3lb G: 9st7lb BMI: 28.5 Loss: 1st11lb(12.76%)
#8
Just for interests sake, 50g is often the amount low carbers will treat as a magic number but it really varies from person to person.

To be sure you don't go into ketosis, you need to have a minimum of 100-120g of carbs :)
I dont know about higher carb levels, perhaps Jim would know more as he is on maintenance.
I try not to have more than 20 or 30g of carbs a day and am getting on fine at that level.
 

Sarah_P

Happy to be slim at last
G: 11st0lb
#9
Ok thanks guys. I think I will swap a bar for a shake for a few days and see how I get on with that.
 
S: 14st0lb C: 12st3lb G: 9st7lb BMI: 28.5 Loss: 1st11lb(12.76%)
#10
Thanks Rach. The carb contents are:
Shake 3.45
Soup 9.1
Bar 18

So with the three for the day I am just over 30g. Then I have protein and lower carb veg. I am probably up to 50g per day.
When is your weigh in day? Are you still having ok losses at the moment? If so I wouldnt worry too much. If your losses stall then look at maybe not having so many bars or at possibly what you are having for your meal. xx
 

KD

Gone fishing
#11
I dont know about higher carb levels, perhaps Jim would know more as he is on maintenance.
I try not to have more than 20 or 30g of carbs a day and am getting on fine at that level.
That's your magic number then :)

I usually have many more as I feel crap in ketosis, so try to avoid it :D

I know people who are in ketosis on 80-90g of carbs, but we all vary.
 

KD

Gone fishing
#12
When is your weigh in day? Are you still having ok losses at the moment? If so I wouldnt worry too much. If your losses stall then look at maybe not having so many bars or at possibly what you are having for your meal. xx
I agree.

If you are just checking ketosis by the stix, then remember that they aren't accurate.

Ketosis happens in the blood and only shows on the stix if there is an overflow in the urine.

I never tested positive on the stix for the 9 months I was in ketosis.
 

Sarah_P

Happy to be slim at last
G: 11st0lb
#13
WI day is Monday. I lost 2lbs last week which is ok considering I had transitioned to AAM.

I was thinking about it and my net carbs can't be 50, as I am only having veg like cauli, brocilli, mange tout, salad leaves, cucumber etc. Maybe a couple of cup fulls in total.

I will ignore the stix then and just go by losing weight and see how the next few weeks go.

Thanks again both of you for your help.
 

KD

Gone fishing
#14
I will ignore the stix then and just go by losing weight and see how the next few weeks go.
Good idea :clap: So many things can change the reading on the stix. In fact, in some circumstances it can give you a positive even if you aren't in ketosis.

Besides, you should only use them in the morning when you first wake up, so any use during the day is very iffy.

Oh, and people often drop out of ketosis straight after eating...so again, a pointless exercise testing then

Anyway, best of luck for your next WI.
 

KD

Gone fishing
#15
I will ignore the stix then and just go by losing weight and see how the next few weeks go.
Good idea :clap: So many things can change the reading on the stix. In fact, in some circumstances it can give you a positive even if you aren't in ketosis.

Besides, you should only use them in the morning when you first wake up, so any use during the day is very iffy.

Oh, and people often drop out of ketosis straight after eating...so again, a pointless exercise testing then

Anyway, best of luck for your next WI, but whether you are in ketosis or not, wont make any difference to how much you lose. That's all to do with calories.
 

Sarah_P

Happy to be slim at last
G: 11st0lb
#16
It's all making sense now. Thanks

Out of interest KD, how much do your 810 clients lose on average a month? Mine is a very similar plan and it's said that monthly average loss is 10lbs.

Rach, did you find that you are still losing around the same by low carbing versus what you lost on W8?
 

KD

Gone fishing
#17
Out of interest KD, how much do your 810 clients lose on average a month? Mine is a very similar plan and it's said that monthly average loss is 10lbs.
Yes, it will be about that...depends on how much they need to lose.

810 is 810 so doesn't really matter which diet it is. The only difference is where the weight is coming off. In a protein sparing diet (like CD..and I assume W8) a higher percentage will be from fat rather than lean mass :clap:
 


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