How much in how long?

kagome75 said:
Remember that when you lose 4 or 5 lbs in a week, you don't lose fat but muscles, it's your body cannibalising itself because you don't give it enough nutrition. That's NOT good because it slows down your metabolism so then you can't eat much without putting all the weight back on.

. I am deeply AGAINST diets like Exante and other meal replacement diets, I don't think they educate you and give you healthy and durable habits that you can keep on following.

So stop restricting yourself and start living with WW. Don't worry about how long it takes. 1 lb a week will make you lose 52 lbs a year
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First of all... if you lose 4/5lbs a week on a VLCD youre losing fat. Your body is burning pure fat NOT muscle because youre in ketosis. To say you dont give it enough nutrition is completely and entirely inaccurate. If you have your VLCD pack youre getting 100% of your daily nutrients - which is probably better than a lot of people on WW are getting. The first time I did WW I lost around 3 to 4lbs a week following it to the letter I was eating sensibly and healthily and certainly not damaging my body. That was just the rate I was losing at, much to the delight of my GP

VLCDs DO NOT slow down your metabolism to the extent youll gain when you start eating. If you go through the refeed stages (a couple of weeks) before you stop a VLCD then you most likely wont gain anything. If you do gain itll be a few lbs and itll be water as your body readjusts to carbs.

There are dozens of success stories on VLCDs just as there are dozens of failures and restarters on WW. People who have lost on a VLCD can successfully adapt to normal eating afterwards. How you lose weight isnt what determines how successful youll be its what you do when you get to goal No matter what diet you do youll regain if you dont adopt better habits.

For some of us, losing weight at a rate of 1lb a week is just no use. But believe me the VLCD route isnt an easy option. Id rather restrict myself just now for a bit then 'start living' when Ive lost this weight. I certainly dont see myself as not living just now. Theres more to life and socialising than food.

You might be totally against VLCDs thats fair enough but please dont give wrong information about them or just write them off because you dont approve. For some people theyre essential.
 
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i agree!

just looking at ur signiture starlight and i see u still have 111lb to go, just wondered what ur goal is, in ur photo u look like u have lost loads!
 
i dont own any of them, hence my daughter on my photo!
 
I am sorry but I don't agree. I am 100% biased because I hate the idea of a meal replacement diet. I think that it doesn't teach you what you need to learn in order to maintain your loss. Arguably, it MIGHT be true that it provides you with all the nutrients that you need (although I really don't believe it!) but if you assure me it does I will *try* to lower my skepticism and believe what you say. But I do think it's not the right way to lose weight because if you learn how food works in your body, what nutrients you need and what foods are the best to fuel your body properly, and you learn how to deal with every situation you encounter and still be able to enjoy yourself, then you have all the tools you need to keep on being thin for the rest of your life. I have lost over 70lbs with weight watchers and the only reason why I've put the weight back on once has been because I was forced to a total change of lifestyle by having to move 3 times, not having the internet, having started a new, stressful job and having my new BF cooking for me (and he only knew how to cook fatty food...). as soon as I got control over my life again, I have lost again all the weight with WW and now I have been maintaining this loss for nearly 2 years. Never, even with diets made for me by nutritionists and yes, once with a meal replacement diet (Slimfast when I was 18 and just starting Uni!) have I been able to do this.

Yes, social life might be more than food Starlight, but you must admit that food is a big part of it for most people. I am Italian, in Italy social life = food. Food is part of the way you live and there's very little social events that don't involve food over there. It's part of my culture, if that's not the same for you then I compliment you. Hence, for me mastering food what I can eat safely and how to fuel my body properly is extremely important for survival at this weight.

You talk about ketosis. Yes, ketosis burns fat, BUT researchers have argued that it can be dangerous for your body. Reading on Wikipedia:
Some clinicians regard ketosis as a dangerous and potentially life-threatening state that stresses the liver [15][dubious – discuss], while on the other hand, many regard it as a safe biochemical process that occurs during the the fat-burning state. Ketogenesis can occur solely from the byproduct of fat degradation: acetyl-CoA. Ketosis, which is accompanied by gluconeogenesis (the creation of glucose de novo from pyruvate), is the specific state with which some clinicians are concerned. It must be noted, however, that it is unlikely for a normal functioning person to reach life-threatening levels of ketosis. This is avoided with proper basal secretion of pancreatic insulin. People who are unable to secrete basal insulin, such as type I diabetics and long-term type II diabetics, are liable to enter an unsafe level of ketosis, causing an eventual comatose state that requires emergency medical treatment.
The anti-ketosis conclusions have been challenged by a number of doctors and advocates of low-carbohydrate diets, who dispute assertions that the body has a preference for glucose and that there are dangers associated with ketosis.[16][17][18] It has been argued that the Inuit lived for thousands of years on a diet that would have been ketogenic, and there are many documented cases of modern humans living in these societies for extended periods of time. On the other hand, it is speculated by Nick Lane [19] that the Inuit may have a genetic predisposition allowing them to healthfully eat a ketogenic diet. According to this view, such an evolutionary adaptation would have been caused by environmental stresses.[20] While it is believed that carbohydrate intake after exercise is the most effective way of replacing depleted glycogen stores,[21][22] studies have shown that, after a period of 2–4 weeks of adaptation, physical endurance (as opposed to physical intensity) is unaffected by ketosis, as long as the diet contains high amounts of fat.[20]
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There are several disadvantages and dangers of ketogenic diets. The most significant danger is the risk associated with ketosis itself. Pregnant women, alcoholics, or persons suffering from kidney or liver disease should never undertake a ketogenic diet.

Other side effects associated with ketogenic diets include temporary dizziness, headache, lethargy, weakness and, in extremis, diarrhea and nausea. In addition, a person on a diet extremely low in carbohydrates, fiber, and many vitamins and minerals is liable to feel cranky, sluggish, and deprived.

There are individual differences in the ability to tolerate the ketosis. More than half the people experience fatigue and mental dullness at the onset of ketosis. Some want to give up at once.

Even without reaching ketosis to the point where ketones appear in the urine, insulin activity is reduced and the formation of fat in the cells is slowed.
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(from Holisticonline.com)

Ketosis is considerably dangerous. This is essentially what happens to your body. Ketosis occurs when the amount of carbohydrates ( the fuel that required to make the body function) drops below a critical level. This forces the body to turn to protein and then to the bodies fat stores to do the work carbohydrates do. When protein is deviated in this manner, it releases nitrogen into the blood stream, placing a burden on the kidneys as they try to expell excessive urinary water due to the loss of sodium. When fat is likewise deviated, the breakup releases fatty acids, or ketones, into the bloodstream, which causes a further burden on the kidneys. If ketosis continues for long periods of time, serious damage to the liver and kidneys may occur. Most low-carbohydrate diets recommend only short-term use, typically 14 days. Many nutritionists warn patients, (especially women in the early stages of pregnancy) against following them at all.
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Quote from Dr Theresa Jones at Doctorlounge.com

As you can see, ketosis might burn fat but it can be dangerous. I wouldn't want to put my body through something like that, it's not the right way to burn fat if it damages your kidneys in the process! I much rather lose the weight in 2 years than in a shorter period of time and avoid problems such as those!
 
Regardless of your opinion VLCDS DO provide 100% of a persons daily nutrients. Thats a fact. Im sure if I had the time I could find just as many articles supporting ketosis etc and Im sorry but I take a lot of wikipedia articles with a very large pinch of salt, considering anyone can update info on there. You quote a doctor on doctorslounge.com by the same token I could post an article by a university professor this week totally supporting VLCDs as a safe and effective method of weight loss. Look hard enough and youll find anything supported/argued against online ;) VLCDs are supported by NICE by the medical profession and while they are accepted as a fast and SAFE way to lose weight noone sees them as a long term plan. Youre not on a VLCD for years, youre on for months, ketosis in that time period does absolutely no harm. Most people do look for an a more conventional route to the last part of their weight loss, largely things like WW/SW. Unfortunately for some people a VLCD is a necessity, its not perhaps what my first choice would be but with the amount of weight I need to lose losing 1/2 lbs a week just isnt going to work

Lots of people lose substantial amounts of weight on WW etc (mysefl included) and then regain but it always just seems to be VLCD restarters which are commented on as an indication that theyre 'not successful'

Perhaps your outlook on socialising is different which is why WW is perfect for you but eating out with people just isnt a fundamental part of my social life. I know Im only on this for a period of time then I can go back to more conventional routes.

While I appreciate you feel strongly against VLCDs and that is absolutely your choice I dont feel its fair at all to make statements about them which arent true. People take a lot of the posts on this forum at face value and inaccurate information is a danger in all diets, especially when it could really worry someone who is on a SAFE diet.

There are plenty diets out there to suit us all, noone has to like them all but we have to respect people have different reasons for chosing different diets. No one diet suits all.

At the moment we both seem to have found the diet that suits us - sounds good :)
 
it does. As you do say, you can find statements that say everything and the contrary of everything so it is very difficult to know what is true and what isn't. Everything that is said on any of the posts in the forums is only our opinion and I would never think anybody would take what I say as the absolute truth, I'm no doctor I only read a lot about what I have an interest on so I know an awful amount of things about nutritions, but I don't have a nutritionists degree so I can't say I really know what I'm talking about, like probably 99.9% of the people in this forum. However, I have been told by doctors that I know really well (one of whom is my uncle, a GP in Italy and another is my cousin, a midwife in Italy) that doing ketosis for more than 2 weeks can be really dangerous. I couldn't remember exactly why so i checked online and what that doctor says on that website is basically what my uncle and cousin said. I trust them because my uncle has been a doctor for 45 years and my cousin has a first class honours degree and masters and really loves her job and would never tell me something that isn't true to her beliefs. We do agree to disagree regarding this so I'm happy to leave it like this: there is proof about pro and contra in what we both believe, I do think it's better if people ask their GP BEFORE going on a VLCD or any other ketosis-kind of diet to know if they *can* follow it healthily.

PS: I do agree that probably the replacement meals have a more balanced nutrition than what some of the users who do WW eat, especially those who just eat fruit, veg and chocolate + fatty food as points... ww can teach you about good nutrition, but only if you have ears to listen to its voice ;)
 
I think another problem is a lot of doctors are very anti VLCD which doesnt help lol I must say I think Im getting a heck of a lot more goodness in me now that with some of the junk I ate on WW lol

WW is my first 'love' (Im forever defending it on the SW boards ;) ) and its definitely where I plan to come back to when Im a LOT closer to my target. Apart from a VLCD (obviously :giggle:) Ive never understood why anyone would chose any diet other than WW
 
I'm sure you can get there Starlight! xx
 
I know I seem in a rush to lose weight, Its just I plan to marry and get pregnant in 18 mths-2years, and neither of these things I want to do while Im overweight, and I can only hold off so long (pregnancy wise) as Im not getting any younger, and family members in the past have had notorious times conceieveing and carrying, from 34 years onwards.
 
Perhaps, you should try a low carb/ high protein diet instead if you are in a rush.
Weighloss goes quick if you manage to stick to it, and due to the high protein, you'll lose very little to no muscle.
However, it is not for the faint hearted.
There are many good ones though, Montignac, Atkins , Dukan, the high Protein Diet by Dr Charles & Maureen Clark, all proven to be effective methods.
 
Dietingdon said:
I know I seem in a rush to lose weight, Its just I plan to marry and get pregnant in 18 mths-2years, and neither of these things I want to do while Im overweight, and I can only hold off so long (pregnancy wise) as Im not getting any younger, and family members in the past have had notorious times conceieveing and carrying, from 34 years onwards.
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Don't worry about justifying it my love. How you do it is your personal choice. There are often strong opinions on here (rightly or wrongly) and I wouldn't want to see one persons hatred of certain diet regimes to ruin any incentive to visit our WW world. Quite the opposite, you are very welcome as we all have lots to share and helpful tips etc. We all have the same ultimate goal, to be slim (or smaller in my case) and to be healthy.

Good luck with Exante (sp?), and if you find it too much, pop back and try WW (other diets are available lol).

Also, good luck with your future plans.

Love, light and happiness xx
 
Iv lost 22lbs in 16 weeks.. slow but steady. It was annoying at first but the slower you lose it the more likely it is to stay off xx
 
*Shanny* said:
this is very good are u on 29pp? are u weighing certain foods aswell? x
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No I'm on 33 because I'm 21 and 5 foot 10, only 9lbs away from ideal BMI! Can't wait for 5th week weigh in!

I weigh everything :) I love it! My health is tonnes better!

Ruth
X
 
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