sparkelwings
in my dreams!!!!!!
hi everyone, i'm really gutted my library didn't have this book in time for me to read as it sounds like it was a good one! has the next one been decided yet as i would love to join!
June/July book - Valley of the Dolls by Jacquiline Susann - Read by 31st July
- Thread starter Karen1972
- Start date
sparkelwings
in my dreams!!!!!!
duh!!!!! just saw it at the top, how stupid do i feel?!!!!!!!! have just reserved it at my library so will def be ready this time lol. x
Karen1972
Gold Member
LOL don't be silly.....!!!
OK I hereby open the discussion about SEA GLASS....
I really really really enjoyed the book. Found it odd at the beginning though, a bit slow and also felt under pressure with a deadline of a finishing date! Soon got into the swing of things though!
So Honora, Sexton, Vivian, McDermott, Alphonse were the main characters and i loved the way the chapters were short and started with the name of the character at the top. lol. Loved the way they all came together towards the middle of the book too.
OK guys i've never ever been to a book club so no idea how to start so why not discuss the main character of the book???
So shall we start with a discussion about Honora? What did we all think about her?
For me she was too perfect lol (well apart from snogging McDermott under the tree that sounded like water!). She let him put his hand up her skirt ffs! In 1930!!!
I was slightly annoyed by her insipid-ness if i'm honest, the way she just followed Sexton's lead and allowed him to treat her badly especially after he lost his job.
She sounds like a wonderful cleaner (the house was a state when they moved in wasn't it?!). And a great cook, i feel sorry for anyone on SS reading some of her recipes!!
I got VERY excited when Alphonse was running over to see her to tell her about something bad happening to Sexton. I thought the obvious ending was him dying and then leaving her to get together with McD!! What a shocking and sad ending that was!
I thought the way she "adopted" Alphonse was wonderful, there was a clear love and respect for each other even though he refused to call her anything other than Mrs Sexton... :copon:
I was left wondering what happened to her and her baby which i guess is how a good book should end...?? Wonder if there is a sequel?
Guys feel free to discuss anything about this book.... it doesn't need to be too organised does it...? lol.
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charliegirl
Silver Member
When I first saw the book I thought it was so far out of my comfort zone that I would struggle with it...as it had such short chapters I really got into it. I used the film shawshank redemption to help me picture in my head how the scene would look. Believe me the setting near the beach was stunning lol...
I too thought the ending would be Sexton would die and she would be with McDermot so whilst it was sad I was glad it did not go like a fairy story.
I loved the bit near the end where it gave both Honora and McDermits side of the story when they got together as normally its only one side of it you hear...ie. when they were kissing her thoughts where in a chapter and his where and they over lapped....(hope you know what I mean)...
I think in those days most wifes were like Honora they were raised to look after the home and their husbands...I remember my Nan also looked after her brothers...
I was not over keen on how Sexton went from loving her to not really wanting to be with her there was no real lead up to this, nothing had really happened when he tossed her sea glass everywhere..
I would love a sequal to this if they also incorporated Vivien as whilst a slow burner of a charactor I liked her spirit....
My first time commenting on a novel so hope I have done it right.....xx
I too thought the ending would be Sexton would die and she would be with McDermot so whilst it was sad I was glad it did not go like a fairy story.
I loved the bit near the end where it gave both Honora and McDermits side of the story when they got together as normally its only one side of it you hear...ie. when they were kissing her thoughts where in a chapter and his where and they over lapped....(hope you know what I mean)...
I think in those days most wifes were like Honora they were raised to look after the home and their husbands...I remember my Nan also looked after her brothers...
I was not over keen on how Sexton went from loving her to not really wanting to be with her there was no real lead up to this, nothing had really happened when he tossed her sea glass everywhere..
I would love a sequal to this if they also incorporated Vivien as whilst a slow burner of a charactor I liked her spirit....
My first time commenting on a novel so hope I have done it right.....xx
Shazpaz
Regular Member
I found the book tough to get into. I didn't like that each chapter was about a different character until they all met and the book then seemed to flow better.
My views of Sexton changed as I read the book. At the beginning I felt what Honora must have felt.....excited about the new relationship etc, but as I read on, I was hoping she could end the relationship with him and I preferred McDermotts character. Like Karen, I found it quite shocking that in the 1930's she allowed him to put his hand up her skirt, but it was good to see she wasn't perfect in every way!! I was pleased Honora didn't agree with Sexton about the gun. I thought her character would have said and done the dutiful thing and backed up her husband whether she agreed or not.
I would have liked the fairy tale ending. I wanted her to end up with McDermott and Alphonse, but I suppose that would have been too predictable.
I could imagine it as a film and think it would make a very good film if it was cast well. I imagine someone like Nicole Kidman playing Honora (she's a bit older then the character though!!).
My views of Sexton changed as I read the book. At the beginning I felt what Honora must have felt.....excited about the new relationship etc, but as I read on, I was hoping she could end the relationship with him and I preferred McDermotts character. Like Karen, I found it quite shocking that in the 1930's she allowed him to put his hand up her skirt, but it was good to see she wasn't perfect in every way!! I was pleased Honora didn't agree with Sexton about the gun. I thought her character would have said and done the dutiful thing and backed up her husband whether she agreed or not.
I would have liked the fairy tale ending. I wanted her to end up with McDermott and Alphonse, but I suppose that would have been too predictable.
I could imagine it as a film and think it would make a very good film if it was cast well. I imagine someone like Nicole Kidman playing Honora (she's a bit older then the character though!!).
Sarette
Gold Member
I was slightly worried I wouldn't like the book and would find it hard to read, as it's not something I would have chosen to read. I read about 6 of the chapters on Thursday night, and found it a bit annoying when it kept changing character, but did like the short chapters! I enjoyed reading Honora's chapters, and I liked Vivian's too. I didn't really like Sexton from the beginning! It was hard to see where the book was going at this early stage, and how the characters would meet..
On Friday night I read the rest of the book! It took me a couple of chapters to get going, then I only put it down once for a wee!
I liked how Honora's character grew. She was a great cleaner and cook, and seemed like a nice person. The way she stepped up to cook and feed so many people impressed me, as it's not something I would have coped too well with! I quite liked how excited she was by finding the sea glass on the beach, and how she collected them in her bowl. I liked how she went against Sexton about the guns also.
I too was so excited when Alphonse was running to tell Honora about Sexton being shot, assuming he'd die and she'd end up with McDermott. I was disappointed to find she was pregnant, having hoped she'd end up with McDermott. I was mortified when so many of them were killed at the end!! It was nice how she took Alphonse under her wing and moved into Vivian's but I was a bit disappointed with the ending to be honest.
One bit I really loved about the book, were the letter's from Honora's mother! What a lovely lady she seemed to be, and especially after all she had been through with her husband and son's death, and then her brother's. I thought the letters were beautifully written
Hope that's ok?? I'm looking forward to the arrival of the next book, which has been dispatched already
xx
On Friday night I read the rest of the book! It took me a couple of chapters to get going, then I only put it down once for a wee!
I liked how Honora's character grew. She was a great cleaner and cook, and seemed like a nice person. The way she stepped up to cook and feed so many people impressed me, as it's not something I would have coped too well with! I quite liked how excited she was by finding the sea glass on the beach, and how she collected them in her bowl. I liked how she went against Sexton about the guns also.
I too was so excited when Alphonse was running to tell Honora about Sexton being shot, assuming he'd die and she'd end up with McDermott. I was disappointed to find she was pregnant, having hoped she'd end up with McDermott. I was mortified when so many of them were killed at the end!! It was nice how she took Alphonse under her wing and moved into Vivian's but I was a bit disappointed with the ending to be honest.
One bit I really loved about the book, were the letter's from Honora's mother! What a lovely lady she seemed to be, and especially after all she had been through with her husband and son's death, and then her brother's. I thought the letters were beautifully written
Hope that's ok?? I'm looking forward to the arrival of the next book, which has been dispatched already
xx
Karen1972
Gold Member
Oh yeah i too loved the gun conversation, so maybe she wasn't as insipid as i first posted!!! Go girl!
I loved her mother's letters too, what a wonderful mum she appeared to be, wish Honora went to visit her though - that would have been a nice addition to the book i think.
The recession was incredible wasn't it? And how apt that we are in a deep recession now with many of us affected.... some of that did depress me to be honest having recently been made redundant!!!!
Very well written though that whole section i think... especially towards the end.
I was very shocked at how many people got killed in the end... so tragic.
I loved her mother's letters too, what a wonderful mum she appeared to be, wish Honora went to visit her though - that would have been a nice addition to the book i think.
The recession was incredible wasn't it? And how apt that we are in a deep recession now with many of us affected.... some of that did depress me to be honest having recently been made redundant!!!!
Very well written though that whole section i think... especially towards the end.
I was very shocked at how many people got killed in the end... so tragic.
dietingqueen
Gold Member
I found the book hard to get in with, but than when i did, i really didnt want to put it down!!!!
I too was shocked at the ending... so unpredictable!!!! I didnt like Sexton from the beggining, but liked McDermotts character, i so wanted them to be together with Alphonso.
The recession, and Honora's character reminded me of women and life in villages in Pak, where wife's are a lot of the time submissive. I think by the time the gun conversation came up, she didnt really care about him, hence offered her true opinion. the way her character cooked and cleaned etc, seemed quite normal practice to me for many Pakistani women even now!!!
I loved the fact that chapters were short, and loved when you saw different chapters regarding the same thing ie Honora and McDermott on the beach, so you could feel how each felt! ( i also thought him putting his hand up her skirt was shocking for the 1930's!!!)
Hopefully will add more, once more people comment!!!! Looking forward to the next book too x
I too was shocked at the ending... so unpredictable!!!! I didnt like Sexton from the beggining, but liked McDermotts character, i so wanted them to be together with Alphonso.
The recession, and Honora's character reminded me of women and life in villages in Pak, where wife's are a lot of the time submissive. I think by the time the gun conversation came up, she didnt really care about him, hence offered her true opinion. the way her character cooked and cleaned etc, seemed quite normal practice to me for many Pakistani women even now!!!
I loved the fact that chapters were short, and loved when you saw different chapters regarding the same thing ie Honora and McDermott on the beach, so you could feel how each felt! ( i also thought him putting his hand up her skirt was shocking for the 1930's!!!)
Hopefully will add more, once more people comment!!!! Looking forward to the next book too
x
nexangelus
Carpe diem, baby!
Where to begin? Okay, the title intrigued me as my little girl used to love collecting sea glass and I have a good friend who still does and recycles many beach treasures. Straight away I wanted to read it and found it easy to understand, the descriptions painting vivid pictures in my mind. I could almost smell the soil that Sexton placed in her hand with the key and the earrings...I thought that was a romantic touch, if little odd. I could also feel the breeze...
The author is good at setting the scene and creating characters. I have not read a book where each chapter is centred around a character and I enjoyed this. The story flowed even though we were taken back and forth in time. I found myself smiling and even laughing in places and then nodding in others.
My favourite character was Vivian, she made me laugh from the start. A smart, rich rebellious type. She came across as more vibrant and sexy and dangerous than Honora. But all the other chracters were fully realised too and I could picture their faces and hear their voices.
I did almost cry towards the end, because it started with McDermott longing for her, then the tussle under the tree and the tragedy. It was an unexpected ending, even with Sexton running away. He began as a romantic hard working man who lied as salesmen have to and turned into a bitter, angry violent wimp. He never really loved Honora with a passion, but he did love her in his way. Was it all lust? He also seemed cruel when he didn't listen to his wife and the image of the sea glass showering the floor sticks with me still.
If I remember correctly, Honora did slightly rebel against Sexton. When she was late home and he hadn't even turned up yet. She had grown tired of the same old same and the lies. Or lack of the truth?
The shortness of each chapter made it light reading, yet the depth of the characters unfolded with each page turn is surprising and commendable. I enjoy the way this author writes. (am reading two of her other books at the moment, another set by the sea and even mentioning sea glass)
Oh yes, I loved the ending and how the sea glass comes up again. It's a thread running through the entire story and it actually ties some characters together of course. Also thought the research notes were interesting. I often go onto read books that authors have read or recommended.
The conversation about the guns had me wondering what was going to happen next as Sexton came across as a hot head. I take Honora's stance on guns, dislike the things, dislike war and dislike violence full stop...
If I think if anything else to say will add as I read more comments. Oooh am getting the new book from the library tomorrow, went all the way to a library quite a way from home today (three differnt libraries now hunting for these books!) to find it shut!
The author is good at setting the scene and creating characters. I have not read a book where each chapter is centred around a character and I enjoyed this. The story flowed even though we were taken back and forth in time. I found myself smiling and even laughing in places and then nodding in others.
My favourite character was Vivian, she made me laugh from the start. A smart, rich rebellious type. She came across as more vibrant and sexy and dangerous than Honora. But all the other chracters were fully realised too and I could picture their faces and hear their voices.
I did almost cry towards the end, because it started with McDermott longing for her, then the tussle under the tree and the tragedy. It was an unexpected ending, even with Sexton running away. He began as a romantic hard working man who lied as salesmen have to and turned into a bitter, angry violent wimp. He never really loved Honora with a passion, but he did love her in his way. Was it all lust? He also seemed cruel when he didn't listen to his wife and the image of the sea glass showering the floor sticks with me still.
If I remember correctly, Honora did slightly rebel against Sexton. When she was late home and he hadn't even turned up yet. She had grown tired of the same old same and the lies. Or lack of the truth?
The shortness of each chapter made it light reading, yet the depth of the characters unfolded with each page turn is surprising and commendable. I enjoy the way this author writes. (am reading two of her other books at the moment, another set by the sea and even mentioning sea glass)
Oh yes, I loved the ending and how the sea glass comes up again. It's a thread running through the entire story and it actually ties some characters together of course. Also thought the research notes were interesting. I often go onto read books that authors have read or recommended.
The conversation about the guns had me wondering what was going to happen next as Sexton came across as a hot head. I take Honora's stance on guns, dislike the things, dislike war and dislike violence full stop...
If I think if anything else to say will add as I read more comments. Oooh am getting the new book from the library tomorrow, went all the way to a library quite a way from home today (three differnt libraries now hunting for these books!) to find it shut!
nexangelus
Carpe diem, baby!
How were babies made back in the thirties, has sex changed that much and has human nature for that matter? I wasn't shocked at all, as the roaring thirties were rife with alcohol and hedonism, sleeping around being top of the list...
Well I think that (roaring) was the 20s actually, even earlier than the 30s heh!
dietingqueen
Gold Member
lol.... shocked maybe isnt the right word.... more it didnt seem inline with her character.
Starlight
Gold Member
Like charliegirl this book took me so far out of my comfortzone I really struggled with it (as you know ) When I started again though I did get into it. I loved the way the chapters were done. The description of the house and beach was so descriptive I could picture it completely.
It was amazing the changes in all the characters from the start of the book. Vivian became a really likeable person compared to how she started off. I didnt warm to McDermott at all in the book, not sure why.
I was quite disappointed with the speed and how Sexton changed, it seemed almost overnight, but then I suppose unemployment and money issues can do that. He just seemed to go from so loving and adoring of her to barely being able to stand her, which I thought was a bit too much of a change.
It was nice to see Honora stepping up to the mark and toughening up as the book went on. She ended up so different to the Honora at the start of the book. I felt the hand up the skirt was a bitr out of character for her, not sure about that, but then her husband had become almost unrecognisable so maybe its not too unlikely.
Like everyone else I didnt see that ending coming. Very extreme and while I dont expect a fairytale ending, I was a bit disappointed with how Sextons character ended up.
Have to admit I really enjoyed it once I got into it
) When I started again though I did get into it. I loved the way the chapters were done. The description of the house and beach was so descriptive I could picture it completely.It was amazing the changes in all the characters from the start of the book. Vivian became a really likeable person compared to how she started off. I didnt warm to McDermott at all in the book, not sure why.
I was quite disappointed with the speed and how Sexton changed, it seemed almost overnight, but then I suppose unemployment and money issues can do that. He just seemed to go from so loving and adoring of her to barely being able to stand her, which I thought was a bit too much of a change.
It was nice to see Honora stepping up to the mark and toughening up as the book went on. She ended up so different to the Honora at the start of the book. I felt the hand up the skirt was a bitr out of character for her, not sure about that, but then her husband had become almost unrecognisable so maybe its not too unlikely.
Like everyone else I didnt see that ending coming. Very extreme and while I dont expect a fairytale ending, I was a bit disappointed with how Sextons character ended up.
Have to admit I really enjoyed it once I got into it
Mrs_CakeyBun
Full Member
I really enjoyed the book and found it an interesting read given the times we are going through now with the current recession...it bought home quite how bad things were back then compared with now....the little things like Alphonso delighting in washing up as there was warm water from a tap is far removed from todays way of life.
The letter her mother sent her at the start of Honora's marriage hinted that she hadn't been able to find a way to discuss sex with Honora and was worried about that, her later letters showed how close she was to her daughter but not once did she talk openly about loving her daughter in the way we would now...it showed how different the world seemed to be but deep down I felt the story showed that really its all about the same things now.
The part with the hand up Honoras skirt made me think that deep down she was a passionate woman but she never had the chance in her life with Sexton to express that passion and love but like many women of her time she did what was expected of her...sadly
I really enjoyed the ending as it seemed so close to how really life is, in that we hardly ever get a fairytale ending, we just make the best of things and get on.
My fav character was Vivian tho she was so full of life and Ohhh to be lucky to live a life of such wild abandon and be relatively free of money worries in such a desperately poverty stricken time...tho I fear I would probably end up feeling as empty and lost as she seemed to at the start of the novel.
The letter her mother sent her at the start of Honora's marriage hinted that she hadn't been able to find a way to discuss sex with Honora and was worried about that, her later letters showed how close she was to her daughter but not once did she talk openly about loving her daughter in the way we would now...it showed how different the world seemed to be but deep down I felt the story showed that really its all about the same things now.
The part with the hand up Honoras skirt made me think that deep down she was a passionate woman but she never had the chance in her life with Sexton to express that passion and love but like many women of her time she did what was expected of her...sadly
I really enjoyed the ending as it seemed so close to how really life is, in that we hardly ever get a fairytale ending, we just make the best of things and get on.
My fav character was Vivian tho she was so full of life and Ohhh to be lucky to live a life of such wild abandon and be relatively free of money worries in such a desperately poverty stricken time...tho I fear I would probably end up feeling as empty and lost as she seemed to at the start of the novel.
Karen1972
Gold Member
Vivian was my favourite character too. So carefree and completely unaffected by morals and what other women were mostly like in those days.
Her outspokenness during the poster printing was fabulous and made me smile lots, she could have rubbed that in the communist's nose but once her point was made she just shrugged it off like it was no biggy. Such a clever lady that one!!!
I was very disappointed with dickie (oo er), i'm not sure exactly what happened there and why he didn't come back, I really liked the way they got together in the first place.
I would have liked to have known how she was so well off (or did i miss that part? lol). But how wonderful to be in a position like that and to then share it with Honora, her baby and Alphonse.
I'm glad Vivian survived the massacre, she saved Alphonse's life too by ducking behind the sofa. The descriptions of how each body reacted to the shooting was chilling wasn't it? Such a shock for a seemingly gentle novel for the most part.
Her outspokenness during the poster printing was fabulous and made me smile lots, she could have rubbed that in the communist's nose but once her point was made she just shrugged it off like it was no biggy. Such a clever lady that one!!!
I was very disappointed with dickie (oo er), i'm not sure exactly what happened there and why he didn't come back, I really liked the way they got together in the first place.
I would have liked to have known how she was so well off (or did i miss that part? lol). But how wonderful to be in a position like that and to then share it with Honora, her baby and Alphonse.
I'm glad Vivian survived the massacre, she saved Alphonse's life too by ducking behind the sofa. The descriptions of how each body reacted to the shooting was chilling wasn't it? Such a shock for a seemingly gentle novel for the most part.
nexangelus
Carpe diem, baby!
Has anyone seen Burn After Reading? It was kind of like the incident in the movie - unexpected and horrible...sudden, like real life I suppose...
nexangelus
Carpe diem, baby!
Yep, the letters were motherly, that outside news and affection...mundane yet day brightening...
westiegirl
Gold Member
I too found the book a little hard going at first, but once I'd read a bit further I really enjoyed it and couldn't put it down. I thought it was beautifully written - very descriptive and as it progressed you really began to care for the characters (except Sexton of course, but that was how I imagined the author wanted you to feel).
It was lovely to see the characters develop with time (and see their lives begin to intertwine) and also as a direct result of their circumstances. I think when times are good it is easy to be happy and portray what you think people want to see but in harder times I think the true characters emerged. I am sure that Sexton was always "shady" though (and I suspect was possibly unfaithful on his trips away) but was good at keeping it hidden, afterall he managed to con both a mortgage and a loan to buy the house!
I found it was hard to remember sometimes that the characters were as young as they were, Vivian I think was the oldest and she was only late 20s, each one sounded a lot older than they were, possibly in reaction to the hard lives that they had to live. Honora was certainly very mature for her ages, I don't know many 20 year olds who could keep a house like she could.
I wasn't shocked by the hand up the skirt thing either - in any era human emotions are the same. A feeling of passion would no doubt provoke a reaction in that day as well as this. It might seem out of character but she was also drunk at the time and inhibitions would have been loosened.
I loved the touches of historical reference, such as the reference to Halifax and the boats and town exploding. I had to google that to see if it was true (which it was) and will possibly look into that topic in the future
Vivian was a lovely character and really stepped up to the mark when she could have easily walked away with all her wealth. I think though that the gulf between rich and poor was well illustrated not just by the material things, but also with attitude. Vivian was very comfortable with stating her mind (when writing the newsletter for example) but Honora felt her role was more submissive and struggled to find her voice (except for the issue of the gun though).
I loved the chapters with Alphonse and the wonderment in him at a whole world a typical boy in his circumstances would have never likely have seen.
I liked McDermott but found him a little insipid. Like most people I would have loved to have seen him and Honora have a happy ending but he seemed to have little passion for anything, seeming to be dragged along with the issue of the strike. He didn't seem to be that passionate about the issues but, as he stated to Honora, just wanted peace and quiet (although was that ironic on the basis that he was almost deaf?).
I'm waffling too much now! So I will end with saying that the book didn't end as I thought it would either. I'm glad that Honora took in Alphonse although I had thought that she might have managed to keep the house and return it to being a house for single mother's as was mentioned earlier in the book. I was left wondering about Honora's future and any relationship she might have - being a single mother but whose husband was still alive and on the run wouldn't have made her very desirable would it?
It was lovely to see the characters develop with time (and see their lives begin to intertwine) and also as a direct result of their circumstances. I think when times are good it is easy to be happy and portray what you think people want to see but in harder times I think the true characters emerged. I am sure that Sexton was always "shady" though (and I suspect was possibly unfaithful on his trips away) but was good at keeping it hidden, afterall he managed to con both a mortgage and a loan to buy the house!
I found it was hard to remember sometimes that the characters were as young as they were, Vivian I think was the oldest and she was only late 20s, each one sounded a lot older than they were, possibly in reaction to the hard lives that they had to live. Honora was certainly very mature for her ages, I don't know many 20 year olds who could keep a house like she could.
I wasn't shocked by the hand up the skirt thing either - in any era human emotions are the same. A feeling of passion would no doubt provoke a reaction in that day as well as this. It might seem out of character but she was also drunk at the time and inhibitions would have been loosened.
I loved the touches of historical reference, such as the reference to Halifax and the boats and town exploding. I had to google that to see if it was true (which it was) and will possibly look into that topic in the future
Vivian was a lovely character and really stepped up to the mark when she could have easily walked away with all her wealth. I think though that the gulf between rich and poor was well illustrated not just by the material things, but also with attitude. Vivian was very comfortable with stating her mind (when writing the newsletter for example) but Honora felt her role was more submissive and struggled to find her voice (except for the issue of the gun though).
I loved the chapters with Alphonse and the wonderment in him at a whole world a typical boy in his circumstances would have never likely have seen.
I liked McDermott but found him a little insipid. Like most people I would have loved to have seen him and Honora have a happy ending but he seemed to have little passion for anything, seeming to be dragged along with the issue of the strike. He didn't seem to be that passionate about the issues but, as he stated to Honora, just wanted peace and quiet (although was that ironic on the basis that he was almost deaf?).
I'm waffling too much now! So I will end with saying that the book didn't end as I thought it would either. I'm glad that Honora took in Alphonse although I had thought that she might have managed to keep the house and return it to being a house for single mother's as was mentioned earlier in the book. I was left wondering about Honora's future and any relationship she might have - being a single mother but whose husband was still alive and on the run wouldn't have made her very desirable would it?
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