Discussion in 'Lighter Life Forum' started by fatpossum, 7 May 2007 Social URL.

  1. fatpossum

    fatpossum Silver Member

    I've been reading throught the threads for the past few weeks and over and over again I have heard the phrase "I was knocked out of ketosis" followed by a tale of woe that invariably involved rapid weight gain and binge eating.

    Surely one can come out of ketosis and not gain weight. Most weight loss programmes do not involve sending ones body into starvation mode (which is what ketosis is) and people still steadily lose weight.

    I think living in fear of being "knocked out of ketosis" is not helpful and serves only to feed into the pathology of fat. It's like as thought the 'ketosis fairy' keeps the 'big fat blob monster' from the door. It doesn't. Ketosis is an aid to weight loss and an improtant facit of VLCDs but whether or not we gain weight is basically down to what we choose to put in our mouths and this will always be the case.

    Lets all gain some perspective and free ourselves from buying into yet excuse for being larger than we would like to be.

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  3. kazz

    kazz Gold Member

    Being knocked out of ketosis on a VLCD is not pleasant at all, because thats when you start to get hungry and then when a lot of people will find their resolve weakening. Obviously our weight is due to wat food we put into our mouths etc but when you are following a VLCD and surviving on food packs with less than 500 cals a day and water, then most people need to be in ketosis to get through it, otherwise they'd spend all day listening to their stomach rumbling and battling against being hungry
  4. fatpossum

    fatpossum Silver Member

    I can accept that Kazz but my point is that coming out of ketosis does not have to mean gaining weight. It may mean having to battle through the hunger pangs (like we had to at the start) but it can be done.

    We need to know that it's not the end of the world and that our success does not depend exclusively on being in ketosis.
  5. Coley

    Coley Re-starter

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    I see what you're saying..................BUT..........here is my but for you.

    We're weak. We all know how to get back into ketosis.....we've done it before, we know how it works. It's a mental thing and not all of us are massively strong all the time and invariably it can lead to being hungry...and then eating all the wrong things instead of riding it out.

    If we were all perfect we'd all have succeded on normal healthy eating plans and not have any problem with our weight.

    In the end....it's not really about being knocked out of ketosis....it's the extra head stuff that goes along with it.
  6. katie_oxo

    katie_oxo Silver Member

    Isn't that the same as saying that people shouldn't be worried about overeating because they have the time of the month as a reason or because they're feeling down because they don't feel they've had a good enough loss? Surely they are then to that effect another excuse for people being larger that they would like to be?

    I don't agree with what I've just written above though - it's just that they are things that have affected you since starting LL ..... I fail to understand why you see that one thing that affects other people is fallacy but what affects you is somehow real?

    We are all in this together and need to understand what others are going through whether it affects us or not - shooting down peoples reasons, thoughts and feelings really doesn't help any of us.

    Sorry for being direct with this but I do find it annoying when peoples feelings and beliefs are seemingly disgarded or put down.

  7. fatpossum

    fatpossum Silver Member

    Hi Katie Oxo

    Hi Katie,

    Is your reply directed to me? I am unclear as to whether I have said something to offend you.

    Fatpossum :confused:
  8. katie_oxo

    katie_oxo Silver Member


    No you haven't said anything to offend me - I read your post though as seemingly overly critical of anyone who for one reason or another has slipped out of ketosis and the physiological effect that this has on their bodies. This hasn't happened to me (yet) but I'm not sure that describing their situations as " "I was knocked out of ketosis" followed by a tale of woe that invariably involved rapid weight gain and binge eating" is helpful to those that have been knocked out of ketosis and have struggled.

  9. fatpossum

    fatpossum Silver Member

    Thanks for clarifying. Please allow me to do likewise.

    I would never wish to be critical of a fellow dieter but I do want to stress the fact that coming out of ketosis does not automatically lead to weight gain. I think this has to be a liberatting fact.

    Coming out of ketosis may mean a futher period of struggle to get back to the point where food cravings are managable but coming out of ketosis will not in itself make you fat -overeating will.

    I want us to be free from this fear - that's all.
  10. Mini

    Mini Administrator Staff Member

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    If carbs are not introduced gradually and in the right sequence over a period of days weight gain will occur as the glycogen stores can overfill,

    Athletes do this and call it carbohydrate loading.

    Athletes stop eating carbohydrate to deplete their glycogen stores and then feast on carbohydrates. This gives them a larger reserve tank of ready fuel for endurance exercise, such as marathon running.

    If we eat a lot of carbohydrate foods right after dieting we will accomplish the same thing - extra glycogen that we will not burn up in a few hours of exercise; a lot of extra water that will stay as long as the glycogen ...this extra weight shows up on the scales and is indistinguishable from fat.

    Glycogen is stored with about 4 parts of water for each part of glycogen. This means that a pound of glycogen may hold an additional 4 pounds of water.

    The reasons for doing a vlcd in the first place is...

    Dietary ketosis works on two levels...

    The first one being that you use up your own fat store efficiently.

    Secondly when fat is burned rapidly the body produces substances from the fat called 'ketone's' and the person is said to be in 'ketosis'.

    The mild ketosis produced by a vlcd has a number of advantages for the dieters: hunger is reduced and a feeling of well-being is often experienced.

    Experience has shown that breaking the diet makes it near to impossible to do the diet successfully again...

    First time round is the Golden Time.

    Love Mini xxx
  11. Hiddenfishcake

    Hiddenfishcake Full Member

    For me I think one of the important things here is WHY people have been knocked out of ketosis. Again, I am not being critical of anyone that has the willpower to start these VCLD's as I'm going through it and know how tough it is, but surely they are designed that if you follow them properly you cannot come out of ketosis?

    If it's the deeper issues that we all have with food that are causing people to lapse, and therefore come out of ketosis, then obviously these issues will prey on people when the hunger pangs start up again. Being out of ketosis isn't the problem, the reason for coming out of ketosis is.
    Mini likes this.
  12. Just Do It

    Just Do It Full Member

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    Can I just ask , how do you know when you've been knocked out of ketosis? Do you just start feeling hungry?

    I've stuck 100% to the plan but seeing others write that they don't eat the bars because they might get knocked out of ketosis started me off worrying. I do get hungry but only when its a few hours since the last pack.
  13. Coley

    Coley Re-starter

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    from a lot of the posts I've been reading.....it's not really the hunger that sets people off.....it seems to be when they use Ketostix and it doesn't go the right colour!! lol. I don't really tell my clients about them unless they really want to know. Don't want them getting hung up on a little pee stick....:rolleyes:
  14. Lighter me

    Lighter me Member

    Lighter Life

    I too have been reading through many threads over the past couple of weeks,I have worked for a good number of years in the counselling proffesssion and use both TA and CBT daily. (I understand you too have used both TA and CBT) I still think there is a lot of anger in your posts, and dismisal of others and their own journey on this programme, WHY? only you can say, I am not really interested, however you might like to explore that yourself:) with your LL counsellor or another out side cousellor.

    You have questioned the programme, you conunsellor, this support forum, but never yourself!

    Just a thought, you might like to think some postive thoughts, have some positive actions/posts annd explore the world of others

    You to could gain some perspective, I am yet to read about or see anyone on the LL programme who is at target and happy after with themselves after 3 short weeks:rolleyes: I wish is could be done however 3 stone or more takes a great deal longer!

    Lighter me
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  15. katie_oxo

    katie_oxo Silver Member

    Fatpossum - no problem, happy to read your point of view.

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  16. Sez

    Sez has started again!!

    My own concern, mentioned on another thread, about being knocked out of ketosis, was that my hunger would return and therefore one of the crutches I am currently using to help me in this god awful struggle would be kicked from under me.

    I am an adult. I make, in the main, adult decisions and choices. However, in the past, now and in the future I have made and will make many mistakes.

    Having the knowledge that I am losing weight by consuming just 500cals a day, and finally having some pride in myself means a huge amount to me. The ketosis "thing" is something I use to great effect, as I am sure many others on a VLCD do, but the most important thing to me is that I learn through this excellent diet and my fantastic counsellor to deal with my emotional hunger. The physical hunger is stopped by the ketosis. This is the reason so many of us refer to it, I feel.
    Mini likes this.
  17. Lesly Cambridge

    Lesly Cambridge Cambridge Consultant

    As Mini said above, the mild ketosis induced by a vlcd does considerably reduce physical hunger, and it does induce a feeling of general well-being.

    But the reason ketosis is important is that it protects against the loss of lean tissue.

    A nutritionally-complete vlcd of approx 500 kcal/day will do this, whereas the same daily intake of, say, skimmed milk and a banana cannot.
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  19. KD

    KD Gone fishing

    Was Cambridge, now maintaining
    Indeed one can. I've also heard people assume that coming out of ketosis will lead to an immediate weight gain. I remember a message on another site which said "OMG, the stick is beige:eek: Will I lose any weight this week?"...(something like that anyway). It was anything to do with whether she was going to eat or not...just that she was out of ketosis, so assumed she wouldn't lose weight that week.

    Again true. My stix only ever showed beige. According to them I was never in ketosis, but I lost 8 stone and I could never have done it unless I was 'in the pink'
  20. fatpossum

    fatpossum Silver Member

    Hi Lighter Me,

    I have gained the impression that you don't like me!

    Kind regards,

    Fatpossum :wave_cry:
  21. Brad0053

    Brad0053 Silver Member

    Emotive subjects generate differing views and that can only be a good thing.

    However, I'm sure everybody likes everybody on here.
    IreneH likes this.
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