Man suing the NHS for a gastric bypass .....opinions

Discussion in 'Slimming World Off Topic' started by determinator, 11 July 2011 Social URL.

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  1. determinator

    determinator Banned

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    Afternoon :D There is a story on our local news about a man suing his NHS trust as they have turned him down for a gastric bypass , he is 22 stone , but only classed as obese .. not morbidly obese . He has been turned down for NHS surgery and is suing them , stating it is his human rite to have this surgery .

    I just wondered what everyones thoughts on this were ?? I think it is totally inappropriate , the NHS did not mmake him obese .. he did that himself .... so why should it be his 'human rite ' to have an operation that costs approx £8000 when life saving operations and medications are rationed due to the huge NHS deficit . I sure hope he doesnt win or the NHS will soon be RIP :/
     
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  3. judywoody

    judywoody Full Member

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    You are right - but what I found shocking is that he still classed as "only" obese - that almost makes it sound a healthy weight...
     
  4. jaylou

    jaylou Gold Member

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    I do not think it is his right, nor do I think the NHS has this kind of money these days.
    Advice, support and a diet plan from the doctors but he needs to follow it.
     
  5. Stackhead

    Stackhead Slow and steady...

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    What shocked me was that his BMI is lower than mine when I started SW, and I would never ever consider surgery!

    What an eejit. What's wrong with just going on a diet?

    xx
     
  6. Bubbles1984

    Bubbles1984 Silver Member

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    and has he tried slimming world? He made himself fat...its not the NHS problem to fix it! They have enough to pay for. We are blessed enough in this country to get free medical care without people abusing it xx
     
  7. kirstabubble

    kirstabubble Silver Member

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    I really have no words for this man. Why would you WANT to have such a massive operation, when actually, all it'll take is some guidance, education and determination to lose the weight himself.

    Losing weight isn't easy but I'm sure anyone who has had this op would admit that that's not easy either.

    Sheer bl00dy laziness, quite frankly.
     
  8. chiefbridesmaid

    chiefbridesmaid Silver Member

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    We don't have free health care here in Ireland so i think this is a disgrace, for those who are lucky enough not to have to pay for health care shouldnt abuse the system!! If he had to pay like he would here, he wouldn't dare ask for
    That operation! I won't even visit the doctor as I can't afford the EUR50 each time!

    It's his own fault and noone else is responsible for the weight he's out on.. If I was the judge I would give him a 12 week countdown for slimming world and a boot up the backside!!
     
  9. ermintrude

    ermintrude Gold Member

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    To be fair a lot of people on this board are here because it *IS* working for them, they *are* losing weight. I'm sure many of us have had times where no matter what they do, no matter how hard we try it just isn't working - it can get to be so bad people want to end their lives. There are many people out there for whom even tackling it as far as getting onto a weight loss forum is just so far away its not even a consideration.

    Lots of people don't or can't lose weight for many reasons - we don't really know much about this man and what he's tried, what support he has or hasn't had. It may well be true that he could lose weight with the right support - or it may not. We all made ourselves fat, but there is always a reason for that and I don't think pointing fingers of blame is in anyone's interest.

    Regarding cost, from the point of view of the NHS the purpose of weight loss surgery (and whether any particular patient is suitable) is that it *reduces* the long term cost to the health service (and to other social services). In simple terms the less overweight you are the less the risk of cardiovascular disease (heart attack, stroke, hypertension), respiratory disease, diabetes, mobility issues, and many, many others. It also means you're more likely to be able to go to work so not claim unemployment benefit/disability living allowance/carers allowance/housing benefit etc (which I am guessing this man is, as his wife has to help him wash and dress). If you're not going to work you're not paying any income tax/NI into the system either. In the long run it is *far* cheaper for the government to pay to help you lose weight than it is to pay to look after you if you don't.

    But it does depend on the patient - you've got to *want* to lose it and keep it off. Weight loss surgery isn't the 'easy' way out - I looked into it but concluded I could never go through it myself, the life you have to live afterwards is not pleasant. I don't know if this man would be suitable or not, none of us know him, there might be many reasons to turn him down other than the (relatively small) cost of weight loss surgery.

    It's true there isn't 'enough' money going into the NHS, but that's not because it spends too much, it's because we've cut (relatively) its budget because we've bailed out the banks - that doesn't mean we 'can't afford' it, it means the government needs to get its priorities right - but that's another discussion and probably not one for this board :)

    Even if this *was* about saving money the point in weight loss surgery *is* an economic one - far, far cheaper than the immense cost of looking after the medical and social expenses of sick people who can't work so need benefits and don't pay taxes.

    Just because we're here having made a relative success of losing weight (so far...) isn't a reason to boast or insist others "can" do the same. (This isn't aimed at anyone in particular btw, before anyone misinterprets it, it's hard to express yourself easily in text-speak :) ) Just feels a bit like this thread is attacking someone very similar to all of us without knowing anything much about him.

    Please nobody take offence, peace and love all around x :)
     
  10. Qua Sae

    Qua Sae Full Member

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    I find some of the opinions on here to be a little harsh. I don't really see the point in suing the NHS for not offering him surgery, but if he were to sue the NHS for not providing him with sufficient support to lose weight then fair enough!

    I think it's disgusting the amount of money that's piled into helping people quit smoking, no questions asked! But a person who is obese has to fend for themselves? It's not always the person's fault that they are obese. I had an awful time with the NHS while trying to recover from my eating disorder and as a result of no support & being messed around by Drs - I managed to overcome my ED (ALONE) & yet, now am overweight. I blame the NHS for that 100%. They refused to support me. They still refuse to support me now & yet friends who want to quit smoking are applauded for it & given freebies & support networks to help quit!

    It really gets on my nerves when people get so angry at someone for their weight, claiming it was their own fault.. They made bad decisions which led them to that path - None of you know why he is that weight so you have no right to judge him!
     
  11. jaylou

    jaylou Gold Member

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    Fair point well made Ermintrude - but suing them?

    There's a lot of people don't get what they want from the NHS - IVF, SW vouchers, physio, counselling or if they do there are long long waiting lists, and if everyone sued then it would just be crazy.

    Good to have different opinions though.
     
  12. Stackhead

    Stackhead Slow and steady...

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    I agree with you to a point ermintrude, but too many people are relying on NHS bailout for weight loss, and it seems the mentality is to use weight loss surgery as the first port of call rather than trying everything else first.

    My issue with this is, he's arguing that it is his HUMAN RIGHT, to have this surgery. So his argument that his existence as a human being entitles him to have expensive, complicated and potentially life threatening surgery.

    The whole thing is a farce and I sincerley hope that his case gets thrown out of court.

    xx
     
  13. jaylou

    jaylou Gold Member

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    No we don't know, very true, but I have my opinion on whether the surgery is a good or bad thing, or indeed if he should sue. Also if it should be available on the NHS.

    Some valid points and good debate on this subject but all these sorts of topics seem to make someone angry on here these days, and I don't think that's ever the intention.

    We should really just offer our opinion and debate but not get cross or angry with people's responses.
     
  14. jaylou

    jaylou Gold Member

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    I never knew this!
     
  15. Qua Sae

    Qua Sae Full Member

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    BBC News - Man appeals for NHS gastric bypass surgery

    I'm assuming this is the man in question..

    It's not a first port of call for him, it's something that would save his life! I think they should overturn their decision, what chance of a life does he have if they don't?

    ETA - He was only turned down because of the postcode lottery [email protected] The same reason I was not able to have proper treatment for my eating disorder. It's the NHS that is disgusting.
     
  16. determinator

    determinator Banned

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    thanks everyone for your opinions , i didnt start this thread to personally 'attack ' anyone , just wondered what everyones different opinions are !! I am aware that the cost of care for obese patients is more in the long run than the cost of the surgery , and that is why barriatric surgery is offered to most people that are morbidly obese , which this man is not . Where should the line be drawn if this man wins this case ?? It is drawn at morbidly obese but if he wins can someone with a stone or 2 to loose have surgery because they are overweight ? that line is drawn so that the system is fair .
    My BMI was 44 when I started my weight loss journey and I cant say I expected anyone to do it for me , I am sure this man has tried dieting , and there may be medical reasons why he isnt able to loose the weight , but I am sure most of us know these cases are very rare .

    I work in the NHS and find it very sad that some trusts have to use up to 40 % of their TOTAL budget for compensation claims , when it could be used to save lives and develop new treatments .
     
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  17. jaylou

    jaylou Gold Member

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    I fail to see how an extremely calorie restricted diet failed to help him lose weight.

    We never know the full facts in these cases though.
     
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  19. determinator

    determinator Banned

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    but he says a low calorie diet hasnt worked , which is all the surgery will give him , it is not a quick fix , it just reduces the amount of calories you are able to eat . If this didnt work for him then how will it work just because his stomach is smaller ?? and gastric bypass is a very dangerous , radical surgery , and living with the restrictions on your body can be very stressful for a healthy body , let alone someone with so many health problems ...

    ( just another thought ...)
     
  20. Qua Sae

    Qua Sae Full Member

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    Did you read my reply before posting this? He does have medical issues that are stopping him from being able to lose the weight! & he HAS tried dieting (extreme calorie restriction) So this is one of those 'very rare' cases.

    Technically he IS eligible for the surgery, normally people with a BMI of 40 or over are recommended to have surgery, but his local authority has put it at 50 instead. The only reason he is missing out on life saving surgery is because of where he lives! That's the real outrage here.
     
  21. kirstabubble

    kirstabubble Silver Member

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    I think calling the NHS 'disgusting' is a bit harsh. They may not have helped you in your own personal circumstances, and that is awful.

    They're not perfect by any means, but we are incredibly lucky to have them at all.
     
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  22. determinator

    determinator Banned

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    I just wondered on peoples opinions ... can we not all have our own opinions anymore and debate them in a friendly manner .. nothing to be angry about :rolleyes:
     
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