More advice needed please!

Hey, just wanted to mention a few things. Being in ketosis is not just down to the carbs, but the carb allowance combined with the low calories allowance of 600cals.

Why do you think you are in ketosis after eating bread out of interest? Is it because the keto sticks things tell you that you are? They are not accurate and I'm sorry to anyone who thinks that they are. They measure the excess ketones in your urine, not whether you are in ketosis or not.
Can't take credit for this, so will quote an old post from KD on the Cambridge Diet forum:

"ketone concentrations are usually smaller in the morning and reach their highest level at midnight. People do vary though, with some showing a higher concentration in the morning and less at night. So...ummm.

Others have no excess as ketosis happens in the blood and will only show on the stix if you have an overflow into the urine. If you use your ketones efficiently, then you'll have no excess ketones on the stix at all.

Also, some people get a pink recording if they eat loads of fat as the ketostix don't know the difference between stored fat and dietary fat."

It is of course entirely up to you how you choose to do the diet and we all have to find ways in which we make it work for us, but I think it's important to clear up confusion. You don't lose weight purely because your body is in ketosis, you lose weight because of the massive calorie deficit. Ketosis is good because it means that you burn fat rather than lean muscle, and in some people it reduces hunger.

I think the reason that people are replying is because the people who have done the diet and found the easiest ways, want to help you. In eating carbs, that are not perfectly balanced in a complete product, you will be encouraging more cravings. This diet is hard enough without having cravings. If you get into it, 3 products, no more, it's surprisingly easy :)
 
Also just noticed your bit about putting the weight back on. There is no evidence to suggest that people on a VLCD will put on weight any more quickly. I can see why you are worried, but you follow the diet up through stages and wasn't sure if you knew this. You can do TS until you reach a healthy BMI and then increase packs and food until you get to a level of carbs whereby you don't put on weight readily. I can completely understand not wanting to distance yourself from food completely. However, that is exactly WHY people do TS. The people who choose TS do so because they want to break their addiction to food and then, when they're in a healthier place, they can deal with it again. Perhaps one of the other levels would be more suited to you, like WS. On Cambrige, we used to talk about average weight loss on the equivalent programme. Adding a meal of 200 cals every day on average produced a loss of about 12lbs per month. Adding no meal the average was 14lbs. It's negligible. You get to eat, but you control carbs and still get your 3 products.
 
I'd agree with Watergirl id think its unlikley you'd remain in ketosis after eating bread and the ketostix are notoriously unreliable. Stick to 'safe' foods if you have to eat
 
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thanks guys - thats really informative.

Re "why you lose weight" - absolutely agree. Why on earth people suggest having snacks like pork scratchings which are crazy high in calories I don't know...they're certainly not "safe" snacks.

Ketosis and bread:
Bread is a source of carbs (a high source certainly!). If you eat more than a certain amount of any carbs then you will come out of ketosis. However.....the amount I was talking about was around 50% of what is in a standard Exante bar, so you may as well ask yourself why you think you'd remain in ketosis when you eat a bar....

Ketosis and ketostix - One thing I have seen is that when they get a bit old they get very unreliable (I have 2 packs but until recently had only opened on. Then checked myself with one from each). Plus you *know* if you're in ketosis as there's no way I could eat 600 calories per day without whining normally!! Do I think I'm still in ketosis? Yes. I'm pretty sure I've not come out since I started this 6 weeks ago. Do I think I've had days where I haven't lost weight as fast as I might - well, yes to be honest. But you know what - I haven't slipped once on alcohol, high carb foods or sugary treats so it is working for me and my weightloss is fairly stable. What I would like to do is understand the exact process going on as that education will help me when I go back to food properly (in particular when I decide to come out of ketosis)

The most interesting idea for me was that 3 packs only reduces the amount of cravings you have. The biggest problem I have is not so much being hungry but craving solid food I can chew! Liquid meals get me down a bit at times and whilst I've not yet given into temptation on the spot, it does help me to plan "on this day I will have a meal instead"

Re gaining weight again - all valid points that I don't disagree with. I'm doing TS because I wanted to break my habits of rewarding myself with food, largely, and the habit of "eating for taste". I've always been reasonably clued up about food and nutrition but I really didn't appreciate the role carbohydrates play until actually doing this diet.
 
thanks guys - thats really informative.

Re "why you lose weight" - absolutely agree. Why on earth people suggest having snacks like pork scratchings which are crazy high in calories I don't know...they're certainly not "safe" snacks.

No one on Exante would suggest having pork scratchings as a snack :)
 
On Atkins if I remember rightly "Pure" pork scratchings, by "pure" I mean with no rusk/dextrose etc were totally fine to eat and still lose weight because of the low carb. As you said though they are notoriously high in calories which on the Atkins is not so important... BUT on Atkins you can't usually expect to lose on average a stone a month...On a Very Low Calorie diet however we do expect to lose a stone a month because we are very low cal and low carb.

For exante to work, its a mixture of the low cal and low carb. Hence even when we add a meal even that has to be counted in cals.
 
Starlight said:
I think you've really decided to just do your own diet using Exante packs as a basis. It seems you've really pretty much made your mind up on that. I hope it continues to work for you

I certainly wouldn't recommend that anyone doing any VLCD starts eating things like bread though

The thought of attempting bread whilst on TS/TFR makes me queezy!! I would defiantly have some serious mental battles with myself if I had bread right now :0)
 
Yeah fair enough

for me it was a good exercise because bread has been the one thing I really craved but couldn't have. So letting myself within strict parameters and then realising it wasn't really that great was good for me. I'd rather have had a massive bowl of spinach!
 
Maybe you should change your username to Popeye now in light of the spinach??? hehehe xx
 
Lol good plan!

Btw edited my post on modifications as I don't think my approach is for everyone. I think I've also given the wrong impression as I'm 100% TS most of the time but twice a week allowing myself a bit of controlled freedom keeps me on the straight and narrow.

I also haven't made up my mind - hence asking for advice. I do like to make my own mind up tho and like to look at all angles. Apologies if its annoying!
 
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