Something I never understood about EE syns.
- Thread starter papercrane
- Start date
jaylou
Gold Member
Oooh, sorry I tried to help :sigh:
Thing is, I don't think SW will change things. It's something we'll have to put up with. I'll continue to syn my chicken chow mein at the lower syn value and I guess those who eat sushi will have to do the same.
Unless, of course, they "tweak" but then that's a whole other topic.
Thing is, I don't think SW will change things. It's something we'll have to put up with. I'll continue to syn my chicken chow mein at the lower syn value and I guess those who eat sushi will have to do the same.
Unless, of course, they "tweak" but then that's a whole other topic.
hatwell
Full Member
The syns for the sushi I eat are the same for green and extra easy, that's the thing that doesn't make sense to me. Surely they should be more on green!
Anyway I just didn't think eating a small amount for a HexB was considered a tweak, I've seen people post on here that the official line was that if you go under your Hex then you don't have to syn (unless it's one of the ones where you have to eat x AND scan bran to get the full Hex.)
Anyway I just didn't think eating a small amount for a HexB was considered a tweak, I've seen people post on here that the official line was that if you go under your Hex then you don't have to syn (unless it's one of the ones where you have to eat x AND scan bran to get the full Hex.)
kingleds
Gold Member
I actually think it would be more of a tweak that splitting a HEX because you have no idea how the fish has its been cooked, whether fat has been used to cook it etc - bear in mind that the Fish can only be used as a HEX if you cook it without fat, and if you do use fat you have to count the syns in the fat as well as those.
I do accept that its unlikely that there will be alot of fat in sushi but the principle stays the same with any processed food. You have no control over how its cooked, so it will have a syn value, and SW have spent loads of time & money researching all this stuff - so they are likely to be right!
I do accept that its unlikely that there will be alot of fat in sushi but the principle stays the same with any processed food. You have no control over how its cooked, so it will have a syn value, and SW have spent loads of time & money researching all this stuff - so they are likely to be right!
papercrane
Lost in the harbor
Not if the fish is raw..!
Mm, our money
. I still maintain that Pret's sushi shouldn't logically be 5 syns on EE, unless the fish content is completely negligible (which is possible, I suppose).
kingleds
Gold Member
I love how you missed out the bit where I said I accept there is unlikely to be a lot of fat in sushi!!!
I do get where you are coming from - and I know I probably sounded a little militant, I'm just going by what is logical to me thats all. You have no control over the ingredients, and neither do SW, so they are probably just being cautious and I'd prefer it that way personally.
Think about it this way - if they suddenly said all sushi which was 5 sysn, is now 1.5 syns on EE, you eat loads of it (but still within your syns), and gained weight you would be mighty annoyed with them....
I do get where you are coming from - and I know I probably sounded a little militant, I'm just going by what is logical to me thats all. You have no control over the ingredients, and neither do SW, so they are probably just being cautious and I'd prefer it that way personally.
Think about it this way - if they suddenly said all sushi which was 5 sysn, is now 1.5 syns on EE, you eat loads of it (but still within your syns), and gained weight you would be mighty annoyed with them....
jaylou
Gold Member
Yes, that's the thing! It shouldn't. Just as chicken chow mein shouldn't be the same syns as it is on a green day but it is.
Them's the SW rules. And if we didn't have rules, where would we be????? (As per the pub landlord......)
When EE first came out they decreed that the EE syn value would be the lower of the red or green values.
I'm not sure if anyone has ever emailed head office. May be worth a shot if you really want the definitive answer.
Them's the SW rules. And if we didn't have rules, where would we be????? (As per the pub landlord......)
When EE first came out they decreed that the EE syn value would be the lower of the red or green values.
I'm not sure if anyone has ever emailed head office. May be worth a shot if you really want the definitive answer.
BritMumInCanada
Gold Member
you are forgetting that regardless of the item having both green and original foods in it, that the syns calculator still looks at the full nutritional information in the product, so the syns calculation won't be far off being accurate.
Okay the advice is that you take the lower syn value and that is because it is not working out the syns from just the nutritional information for the rice for instance, it is giving you the allowance for the whole item from it's full nutritional information. If that makes sense.
Sushi is never going to be completely free, as it very often has oil, mirin or sugar, wasabi and seeds etc and some packs even have mayonnaise, the horseradish sauce you usually get with them, contains sunflower oil and cornflour. Unless of course you make the sushi yourself and skip all those ingredients out.
Just looking at this pack for instance:
http://www.tesco.com/superstore/xpi/7/xpi63594847.htm
it comes out as 4.5 syns for the pack when you select an extra easy day, and rice and salmon as your free foods (as they are the main 2 first ingredients listed) and then put in all the nutritional information, and I can pretty much see where those syns are coming from. It has all these items in it which are syns:
oil, cornflour, wasabi, seeds, sugar.
That to me is your 4.5 syns there and then.
then if you look at the nutritional information. There is 7.3g of fat.
The syn calculation seems pretty accurate to me.
Okay the advice is that you take the lower syn value and that is because it is not working out the syns from just the nutritional information for the rice for instance, it is giving you the allowance for the whole item from it's full nutritional information. If that makes sense.
Sushi is never going to be completely free, as it very often has oil, mirin or sugar, wasabi and seeds etc and some packs even have mayonnaise, the horseradish sauce you usually get with them, contains sunflower oil and cornflour. Unless of course you make the sushi yourself and skip all those ingredients out.
Just looking at this pack for instance:
http://www.tesco.com/superstore/xpi/7/xpi63594847.htm
it comes out as 4.5 syns for the pack when you select an extra easy day, and rice and salmon as your free foods (as they are the main 2 first ingredients listed) and then put in all the nutritional information, and I can pretty much see where those syns are coming from. It has all these items in it which are syns:
oil, cornflour, wasabi, seeds, sugar.
That to me is your 4.5 syns there and then.
then if you look at the nutritional information. There is 7.3g of fat.
The syn calculation seems pretty accurate to me.
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papercrane
Lost in the harbor
Well, we were talking about sushi...!!
BritMum - Yep, OK, I'm fully aware of the other ingredients in sushi. Let's talk hypothetically then.
Imagine you could buy from Sainsbury's a pot consisting of (free) boiled rice and their (free) chicken tikka breast chunks. With no oil or dressing or added ingredients or anything. The nutrition information would look something like this:
Rice (150g made-up weight): 222cal, 50g carb, 0.4g fat, protein 2.6. Syns Calculator says: FREE (on green and EE)
Chicken (70g portion): 90cal, 2.0 carb, 1.3 fat, protein 17.4. Syns Calculator says: FREE (on original and EE)
Total (220g): 312cal, 52g carb, 1.7g fat, 20g protein. Syns Calculator says: 9.5 SYNS Original, 4 SYNS Green or Extra Easy (NB I did enter BOTH free foods into the calculator)
But if I was doing Extra Easy I would be completely within the plan to buy those two products and eat them together as FREE food, consisting 2/3 of a meal. Conceivably if I had that at lunch time I could have a portion of fruit afterwards which would make up my 1/3 superfree.
Do you understand what I'm getting at?
I'm sorry I even bought this up now, it's just making me cross which is the opposite reason I joined here, haha.
I've emailed SW, shall see if they reply.
Matt
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jaylou
Gold Member
^^^ Exactly papercrane.
The calculator only allows ONE free food allowance to be entered. What if there are more than one free foods in a product?
I don't get it either.
However, I am one to follow rather than question rules. Well, I question but then I conclude that it is the way it is, and that's the rules, and I follow them!
The calculator only allows ONE free food allowance to be entered. What if there are more than one free foods in a product?
I don't get it either.
However, I am one to follow rather than question rules. Well, I question but then I conclude that it is the way it is, and that's the rules, and I follow them!
papercrane
Lost in the harbor
Yes, so do I at the end of the day. Also, it encourages me to cook for myself which is only a good thing
. I just like SW for it's logic (on the whole) - things are easily quantifiable and make sense - that's why this has bugged me ever since I first tried EE last time I was at SW! x
autumnflower
Full Member
I just thought it was because that 'protein' meats and that have a lower syn value on green than carbohydrate products have on red, hence the large disparaty between different foods.
Also, EE just came off the back of Red and Green, and going round changing all the syn values would take a LOT of time and effort to re-value all foods syns values, reprint all the books, give every member an updated intro guide ect. It just makes it easier to say 'choose the lowest syn value'
Also, I think that introducing EE made it easier to have main meals, and by not changing syn values for ready made foods makes it less tempting to over eat on processed foods, which isn't really what SW is about.
Also, EE just came off the back of Red and Green, and going round changing all the syn values would take a LOT of time and effort to re-value all foods syns values, reprint all the books, give every member an updated intro guide ect. It just makes it easier to say 'choose the lowest syn value'
Also, I think that introducing EE made it easier to have main meals, and by not changing syn values for ready made foods makes it less tempting to over eat on processed foods, which isn't really what SW is about.
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papercrane
Lost in the harbor
PS. I just want to reiterate I am very aware how petty I am being and how few products this would actually affect. I don't want to cause any animosity, I've been really inspired by this forum over my few days as a member, and previously as a lurker! (And I am still most glad to have returned to SW and can't wait to undo the damage I did last year...) x
jaylou
Gold Member
I don't think you are being petty. You raise a valid point and it's one that has been discussed (and not really resolved) before.
Long and short of it, if a food has red and green free foods in it, then the value for EE should be lower than the red or green value (if logic were being applied)
I see why SW have not done this though and it is far simpler to just take the lowest syn value but there is a point to be made and hopefully SW will answer. Although their answers in the past have usually been somewhat "woolly"!!
Long and short of it, if a food has red and green free foods in it, then the value for EE should be lower than the red or green value (if logic were being applied)
I see why SW have not done this though and it is far simpler to just take the lowest syn value but there is a point to be made and hopefully SW will answer. Although their answers in the past have usually been somewhat "woolly"!!
papercrane
Lost in the harbor
Ha, thanks guys. I was worried it sounded like I was picking a fight or just hated Slimming World...!
BritMumInCanada
Gold Member
actually the syns calculator allows you to select a green and an original food if you select an extra easy day and looks at the full nutritional information it doesn't just take in to account 1 food i.e green or original.
papercrane
Lost in the harbor
<facepalm>
No, I added the nutritional info together and fed that into the Extra Easy calculator, telling it to account for the rice and chicken both!
No, I added the nutritional info together and fed that into the Extra Easy calculator, telling it to account for the rice and chicken both!
BritMumInCanada
Gold Member
But, the sushi pack gives the nutritional information for the FULL ingredients and that is what you are putting into the calculator, so it is still working it out exactly as your example above, you are just not splitting up the nutritional information and just inputting it for the rice and not getting an allowance for the fish, you are getting an allowance for both.
If you were to split the sushi pack into nutritional information for the rice and nutritional information for the fish and input them seperately. The syn value will still most likely be the same.
With the ingredients I posted above which come in a sushi pack which are not free. I can't see how it would ever be lower than the syn value it comes out as.
It will be interesting to see if slimming world get back to you and how they explain it.
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