Cambridge VS Atkins ALCOHOL

Discussion in 'Cambridge Weight Plan' started by slimbydecember, 18 February 2008 Social URL.

  1. slimbydecember

    slimbydecember Member

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    Hi I wonder if someone can clear something up for me?

    When on the Atkins diet you lose weight rapidly as you are in ketosis, this is the same on the cambridge diet.

    The only difference is you are allowed to introduce alcohol on the atkins diet starting with gin.

    Why is this so dangerous on the Cambridge diet but not Atkins if you are in Ketosis on both?

    Also, I keep seeing people say how dangerous it is to your kidneys if you drink on Cambridge although if you go onto the NHS website and type in Ketosis it says it is very dangerous to your liver and kidneys to be in Ketosis for more than 14 days regardless on whether you drink or not.
     
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  3. spooky

    spooky Banned

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  4. slimbydecember

    slimbydecember Member

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    Hi

    I have already read that. What i'm asking is why do these dangers apply only on Cambridge.

    It doesn't have the dangers of ketosis and alcohol on the atkins diet even though you are in ketosis on atkins and you are allowed to introduce alcohol.
     
  5. mummypower

    mummypower Just call me Anne x

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    I would think simply because you are consuming food on atkins that alcohol consumption is safer?
     
  6. justabrat

    justabrat Member

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    I need to lose at least 8 more stones so does this mean if I stay on the diet for this long I will damage my kidney and liver?

    I don't want to risk ketosis for longer than 2 weeks if thats the case!:eek:
     
  7. loobyloo85

    loobyloo85 Louise

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    I think it is because on CD your body only goes into mild ketosis which doesnt pose a threat to your organs!
    ketosis is a process which diabetics can slip into if not monitoring insulin properly and this is the dangerous phase of ketosis as they slip into deep ketosis which is why we diabetics monitor ourselves with the ketostix.

    If it posed a threat to your organs the CD product simply wouldnt be sold in this country but the sheer fact it has been sold for all these years obviously proves that it is safe if done properly.

    Like i said before it is not the same ketosis that we diabetics can slip into. it is only mild!

    Please someone correct me if im wrong but i am sure ketosis for diabetics is different to the ketosis you go into whilst on the diet so i wouldnt worry too much!

    Being overweight poses more risk to your organs i would of thought!!
     
  8. icemoose

    icemoose The Diet Guy

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    Hiya.

    Ok firstly the ketosis that Cambridge Diet puts your in is a benign dietary ketosis, it is different from diabetic ketoacidosis. If you need confirmation or reassurance over this then ask your GP as he/she is your primary source of clinical knowledge.

    In terms of why you can or can't drink on Atkins I can't say, I only have official guidance from Cambridge and that says that when in a ketotic state you shouldn't drink alcohol for reasons stated by Linda in her original post.

    I would also say of course that if you want to lose weight then ideally you would avoid alcohol as it is a high calorie liquid!!

    Mike
     
  9. shinyhappyperson

    shinyhappyperson Silver Member

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    A friend of mine did Atkins recently, was in ketosis, but decided to go for a blow-out meal with fine wine, etc.

    It hit her like a hammer - she was violently ill, passed out and we had to carry her home.

    I wouldn't recommend alcohol on either of the diets (more's the pity ;))
     
  10. letmeout

    letmeout Silver Member

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    I don't feel I need any alcohol so far on this diet. I'm not a big drinker at all but I feel a natral high, very relaxed and have a sense of contentment which is not unlike the feeling I get after a few beverages!
    Marie Anne
     
  11. Dancing

    Dancing Gold Member

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    my understanding of the alcohol and ketosis thing is that it is because on a vlcd like cambridge you do not replenish your glycogen stores to significant levels. Your brain's major source of energy is glycogen. Therefore the small amount of glycogen we produce from our packs is used mostly by our brain. There is something about that small amount of glycogen, it being the brain's main source of energy, the effect of alcohol on the liver when in mild ketosis that is behind it all (I can never remember the detail of things after a few months).

    Anyway, with Atkins a person can eat loads of fatty foods as well as protein. Therefore, the individual is constantly restocking their glycogen (fat that is not immediately absorbed by the body is converted to glycogen and stored by the body).

    That is why you are advised to avoid alcohol on vlcd but not on Atkins - because on Atkins the amount of fat you are eating gives you a higher level of glycogen stores in the body
     
  12. april

    april Member

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    As I understand it you shouldn't drink alcohol while you're in ketosis regardless of which low carb diet you are following. Are you sure fat converts to glycogen? I didn't think that was possible; surely if that happened then we could never be in ketosis?
     
  13. Dancing

    Dancing Gold Member

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    thanks April - I said my memory goes a bit hazy ... I got it backwards (unused glycogen is converted to fat, not the other way around) Doh!!:

    The body's principal source of energy. All sugars and starches that we consume are carbohydrates. Examples include table sugar, whole grains, pasta, fruit, popcorn, vegetables and more. Carbs can be classified into two types, simple and complex. Simple carbs are sugars and complex carbs are primarily starches.
    Carbohydrates are transformed by the body into one substance, glucose. Glucose is a form of sugar that is carried in the blood and transported to the cells for energy. Any glucose not used by the cells is converted into glycogen that is stored in the muscles and liver. The body's glycogen storage capacity is limited, so any unused glucose is converted to fat.


    I learnt this while studying (and then obviously mixed it up in my head!) but a quick google came up with the above from this website: Basic components of food

    will have a rethink about the alcohol and ketosis thing .... apologies for getting it wrong
     
  14. Lovelyjoolz

    Lovelyjoolz Loving Life!

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    At the end of the day, i won't drink on the diet because I've already learned the hard way how bad it can be.

    Last July I had a party to go to and thought it would be OK, as long as I had something to eat at the party to soak up the alcohol - boy was I wrong!!!

    Despite filling my face with all the stodge i could find (potato salad, white bread rolls, couscous and rice salad) the wine hit me really hard, really quickly. After just four glasses I literally could not see straight. It was very, very scary, I have never been that drunk in my life. And to make it worse - I had the worse ever hangover the next day too, I very rarely suffer from hangovers.

    I'm never drinking on this diet again!!
     
  15. Dancing

    Dancing Gold Member

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    yes, definitely best to avoid it.
     
  16. SoonToBeGorgeous

    SoonToBeGorgeous Loving the Cambridge Diet

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    Diabetic ketosis is a dangerous condition.

    Ketosis which occurs with both Atkins, CD. LL and Lipotrim is not dangerous at all.

    I have been on CD coming up 7 months (on 24th February). I have a blood test every four weeks due to taking toxic DMARDs for my RA.
    In 8 stones of weight loss and in 7 months my blood tests have remained perfect throughout.

    If CD ketosis were dangerous I shouldn't be here now!

     
  17. Dancing

    Dancing Gold Member

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    ??she isn't saying cambridge ketosis is dangerous she is saying alcohol when in ketosis is dangerous
     
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  19. SoonToBeGorgeous

    SoonToBeGorgeous Loving the Cambridge Diet

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    Yes I know that!

    One of the subsequent posts mentioned CD being dangerous over 14 days duration.

    Alcohol when in ketosis is dangerous since the alcohol goes straight into the bloodstream - due to lack of food - the result is that you would get very drunk very fast and have the mother and father of all hangovers the next day!


     
  20. slimbydecember

    slimbydecember Member

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    Taken from NHS website

    This was taken from the NHS Direct website

    Ketosis - Definition

    Ketosis is a process in which your body converts fats into energy. During the conversion, ketones are produced as a by-product. Ketones can give your breath a sweet, fruity smell that may be mistaken for alcohol.
    Your body normally uses glucose to meet its energy needs. Glucose comes from the carbohydrate in your diet. A healthy, balanced diet should provide you with all the glucose your body needs, so that ketosis does not take place. However, if your body does not have enough glucose, perhaps because your diet is very low in carbohydrates or you are starving yourself, it will begin ketosis to obtain energy from its stored fats instead. As a result of this, the ketone levels in your blood will rise. Prolonged severe ketosis can be dangerous as it can change the acidity of your blood, which may eventually lead to serious damage to your liver and kidneys.
    Recently, diets that recommend you eat lots of protein and very little carbohydrate have become popular. These high protein-low carbohydrate diets - known as ketogenic diets - are intended to work by forcing your body to begin ketosis to burn fats and create quick weight loss. Because long periods of ketosis can be dangerous to your kidneys and liver, ketogenic diets are never recommended by health professionals for more than short-term use, typically no longer than 14 days. Many nutritionists warn their patients - especially women in the early stages of pregnancy - against following them at all.
    Ketoacidosis in diabetics
    If you are diabetic and you fail to have your injections of insulin for a prolonged period, you can experience ketoacidosis.
    The lack of insulin means that your body cannot use glucose in your blood to create energy and ketosis occurs. The resulting high blood glucose levels also leads to dehydration as your body attempts to remove excess glucose (i.e. you to pass more urine). This in turn affects the level of electrolytes in your body.
    If left untreated, your body will release so many ketones into your blood that your blood will quickly become dangerously acidic and together with an unbalanced electrolyte levels and dehydration, untreated diabetic ketoacidosis can lead to coma and death.

    Here is the link to the website too Ketosis Definition - Health encyclopaedia - NHS Direct
     
  21. sumayyah

    sumayyah please try again

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    well the phrase prolonged SEVERE ketosis is the key there
    the obesity clinics here ( run by consultants and dietitians ) recommend cambridge for their morbidly obese patients ( i started super morbidly obese )
    and pregnant women are told NOT to diet in any form as growing a baby you need to be eating your 2000 cals a day to keep up
     
  22. Becky1983

    Becky1983 Full Member

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    Hi Guys,

    Im a little confused by this thread, Glucose(broken down carbs) is stored in the liver as glycogen, when blood sugar is low the hormone glucagon is released to allow the liver to convert the glycogen back into glucose.

    On any diet that puts you into Ketosis, as soon as you begin fasting you use up your glycogen stores firstly then once this has gone you strart to burn fat and ketones are produced. The brain can only use ketones and glucose for energy and that is why ketones are produced as an alernative energy source.

    Also as mentioned diabetic ketoacidosis is very dangerous but through a different cause.

    Ok, so when you drink alcohol it it binds to any glucose in your blood dropping your blood sugar through your boots. As you know the packs still contain a small amount of carbs, but the problem is your blood sugar will be low anyhow through the diet, you also have no glycogen stores in the liver. So basically you can cause your blood sugar to drop even lower. Not Good and quite dangerous. Ever wondered why people get the muchies after a night on the booze.

    The same can happen on Atkins so wouldnt recommend it on that in the initial stages, but as you progress and add food the side effects would be less.

    I am a med student and we learnt all about metabolism etc, so this info is correct and I hope it helps to clear things up a little.x
     
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