Common SW misconceptions put right.

[KittyD]

Thanks Welshtigger!

 

[Pommette]

Yes, If you have a pound of fat and a pound of muscle, they both weigh a pound. But volume wise you get much more fat to the pound than you do muscle. About 2 handfuls of muscle weigh a pound but 4 handfuls of fat weigh a pound. So volume wise it does weigh more. I think that's what people mean when they say that.

We had the discussion about fat and muscle quite some time ago on this thread. What goes round comes around - as they say.

It's all to do with volume and density - and I don't mean in the brain!
The volume isn't quite as much as what you've quoted above.

SCIENTIFIC FACT: By VOLUME, muscle does weight more than fat.
DENSITY - Muscle density is 1.06 g/ml and fat density is approx. 0.9 g/ml. Thus, one litre of muscle would weight 1.06 kg and one litre of fat would weight 0.9 kg.
In other words, muscle is about 18% more dense than fat.

 

[AnnaFaraday]

Oops, didn't read this before I replied! Just saw the bit about toast and laughed ? x so it's pretty much the same as what I said

Sent from my iPhone using MiniMins

I know - when you actually think about it, it is funny. But I have heard consultants say this, so I suppose people can't be blamed for believing it.

(Of course, if it were true, it would be the scientific breakthrough of the century!)

 

[KittyD]

We had the discussion about fat and muscle quite some time ago on this thread. What goes round comes around - as they say.

It's all to do with volume and density - and I don't mean in the brain!
The volume isn't quite as much as what you've quoted above.

Yes, I thought I was probably wrong on the actual volume but I just wanted to try and get the point over. I had a discussion with someone at work the other day and they were saying "No, obviously a pound of fat weighs the same as a pound of muscle!" and just didn't get what I was trying to say. I ended up comparing it to a pound of Iron weighing the same as a pound of feathers, and then my colleague understood what I was saying.

 

[Shrimpy]

A pound of Iron and a pound of feathers DO weigh the same. Weight or rather mass, is how MUCH of something there is in grams or kilograms. However a pound of iron occupies much less space than a pound of feathers, by VOLUME (the amount of space something takes up0, a lb of feathers is much bigger. This is because feathers are less dense (so each feather weighs less per cubic centimeter).

It is the same with fat and muscle. Fat is like the feathers and muscle is like the lead.

 

[KittyD]

A pound of Iron and a pound of feathers DO weigh the same. Weight or rather mass, is how MUCH of something there is in grams or kilograms. However a pound of iron occupies much less space than a pound of feathers, by VOLUME (the amount of space something takes up0, a lb of feathers is much bigger. This is because feathers are less dense (so each feather weighs less per cubic centimeter).

It is the same with fat and muscle. Fat is like the feathers and muscle is like the lead.

Yes, I know, thats what I was trying to say. A pound of anything weighs the same as a pound of anything else, but obviously you get a lot more feathers to the pound than you do iron

 

[vickidyers]

loving the fat/muscle arguement here, I've read all the way through the thread and I agree woth most... per volume muscle weighs more that fat, thats why BMI charts state at the bottom 'not suitable for persons with a high muscle mass'
My other half (rather annoyingly!!) is 5'11 and weighs 15 stone which puts him on the verge of being obese, yet he has a 32" waist - hardy what I would call obese! The reason is simply because he is 5'11" of muscle (and rather yummy in my opinion!!!).
The BMI is a guideline and as with a lot of the comments on this thread needs common sense applied!

 

[Sassia]

Ha ha! This made me chuckle! A piece of bread cannot physically increase in calories! Maybe it's to do with the mass of the bread decreasing when it's toasted!! How bizarre!! Lol

Sent from my iPhone using MiniMins

That's why I put gain in quotes

It makes sense for it to be because it dries out, so weighs less and the weight is all bread and no water.

 

[Gembear]

I'm still a relative newbie - can anyone explain why you're not allowed to mash your fruit :S

 

[hellcats]

My consultant says if you are going to eat a banana on toast, then you can mash the banana on the toast but if you were to mash the banana in a smoothie with strawberries then you would get more fruit than you would normally sit down and eat (she has never seen me eat a kilo of strawberries lol).
Hope that is helpful.

 

[Rachella]

My consultant says if you are going to eat a banana on toast, then you can mash the banana on the toast but if you were to mash the banana in a smoothie with strawberries then you would get more fruit than you would normally sit down and eat (she has never seen me eat a kilo of strawberries lol).
Hope that is helpful.

This is something I sort of disagree with to some extent - I really like apple puree with sweetner (by stewing a cooking apple on the hob) - I wouldnt syn this whereas I know strictly speaking I should.

As fruit is a free food you could eat 5 apples a day if you wanted to and nobody can stop you but if you stew the 5 apples and eat them you have to syn them...

the only explanation I've been given by the SW consultant is that you would typically eat more puree or mashed up fruit... not sure if that's a robust enough answer for me!

 

[shineykat]

This is something I sort of disagree with to some extent - I really like apple puree with sweetner (by stewing a cooking apple on the hob) - I wouldnt syn this whereas I know strictly speaking I should.

As fruit is a free food you could eat 5 apples a day if you wanted to and nobody can stop you but if you stew the 5 apples and eat them you have to syn them...

the only explanation I've been given by the SW consultant is that you would typically eat more puree or mashed up fruit... not sure if that's a robust enough answer for me!

Hmm well I've heard that scientifically, the reason why fruit is free and mashed/puréed is not, is that in a whole piece of fruit it takes the body the same or more calories to break down and digest the roughage than it does in liquidised form (obviously)
Imagine how much easier it is for your body to absorb all the nutrients of puréed food, without working to digest all the solid pieces.
Anyway the way I look at it is a smoothie now and again doesn't do me any harm.

 

[dribbler]

If you take a slice of bread and toast it, the two will have the same amount of calories.

However, a slice of toast weighs less than a slice of bread as you will have evaporated some of the water content in the toasting process - toast is lighter than bread. So weight for weight, toast does have more calories than fresh bread.

But that is not because it has "gained" calories.

I think that the extra calories comes from carbs being turned into sugar, its the chemical process causing the change not the density which make is more calorific....I think, (I wouldn't imagine there was much in it though!)

 

[Shrimpy]

How would toasting it turn the starch (a polymer of glucose) into glucose?! We use an enzyme in our mouth and small intestine to do this.

The density is the only logical answer.

 

[Pommette]

Hmm well I've heard that scientifically, the reason why fruit is free and mashed/puréed is not, is that in a whole piece of fruit it takes the body the same or more calories to break down and digest the roughage than it does in liquidised form (obviously)
Imagine how much easier it is for your body to absorb all the nutrients of puréed food, without working to digest all the solid pieces.
Anyway the way I look at it is a smoothie now and again doesn't do me any harm.

It's also do do with volume. It is extremely easy to eat 4 stewed apples as they shrink so much. But try eating 4 whole apples in one go!
Also you can easily drink the juice of 12 oranges very easily but try eating them at at once!
Smoothies won't do you any harm but you are drinking serious quantities of calories. And what do excess calories do? Make us put on weight.

How would toasting it turn the starch (a polymer of glucose) into glucose?! We use an enzyme in our mouth and small intestine to do this.

The density is the only logical answer.

Shrimpy you are so right - there is no way toasting can start the chemical reaction.

All carbohydrates are just complexs sugar!!!
All sugars (alcohol, glucose, sucrose, fructose etc) are just Carbon, Hydrogen and Oxygen and have the same chemical signature that is lots of CH2O . . . . with the number of carbon atoms varying
Methanol has 1 carbon atom, Alcohol 2 carbon atoms, Glucose 6 carbons etc.

 

[Shrimpy]

That's what I was saying, but burning it doesn't make it become sugar otherwise toast would taste very sweet, and it doesn't.

 

[dribbler]

I need to find the answer to the toast debate...its bugging me, lol.

I went online and googled and found this report on toast, lol.

Does Toasting Bread Change Its Nutritional Value? | LIVESTRONG.COM

​

 

[systema]

New here and to S.W. so read all the sticky threads this morning - ready to go now.

I have always cooked my porridge and fruit together and it is then blended - since going to the gym have had to stop doing this as I feel too full to do my class at 11am even though I ate it about 8am. If I eat "normal" porridge don't have this problem.
This turns on its head the theory of blended food going straight through you.

Use a Vitamix machine to do it so back to having to cook it in the micro and it does not taste as nice.

 

[Pommette]

I need to find the answer to the toast debate...its bugging me, lol.

I went online and googled and found this report on toast, lol.

Does Toasting Bread Change Its Nutritional Value? | LIVESTRONG.COM

This article says:

"As the bread gets heated, some of the moisture evaporates, so the slice of bread will weigh a little less after it has been toasted
. . . a slice of untoasted wheat bread has 65 kcal while a toasted slice has 64.9 kcal. That is only a slight difference. Both the untoasted and toasted slice of bread have 11.8g carbohydrate, 2.3g protein and 1g total fat."

So for our original discussion Quad Erat NOT Demonstrandum. This article seems to imply that the toast is actually less calories than the original slice of bread - which I don't quite understand although hubby (who is a chemist) says it is just burning the sugars. However, if it has the same carbs etc it has to have the same calories!!!

Grrr . . . the plot gets thicker Dribbler.

 

[ChezJacqueline]

Is that pic of the lb of fat for real? is that a really tiny mug its next too.

Another thing Why can you mush up and cook toms but are synd if you do same to an apple, they are both fruit technically

It has to do with volume. You are much more likely to "drink" 5 apples if they are blended where as to eat 5 apples is a gut busting act! It's all about getting full on the least amount of calories.