Disgusting Sun Topic Fatties Should be denied IVF!
- Thread starter Fattyfattyboomboom
- Start date
Taz
Spam Hunter
I'm trying very hard to resist getting too involved in this debate. No one NEEDS to have a child. If you think you need a baby then there is something missing from your life. I baby/child is it's own personn and the job of the parent is simply to nurture it til he/she is old enough to go out into the world on their own. If there is something lacking in a persons life I really don't see how a baby will fill that gap. A baby should be the cherry on the top of the cake, not the flour that is needed to make it.
I'm sorry if that seems harsh but I feel that if you think you 'need' a baby you are not making the most of the life you have
I'm sorry if that seems harsh but I feel that if you think you 'need' a baby you are not making the most of the life you have
Daisy_Doo_Dah
Boo!
I agree wholeheartedly with this comment!! I think if you "need" a baby in your life then ultimately it is to replace something that is missing already if that makes sense.
We don't feel like we need a child, moreover we would like to have one.
We have always said that if the time comes that we 100% can't have children then you know what, we have more than some people, we have each other! Soppy but true
I used to work in an IVF clinic and we did not treat women with a BMI over 35.
This was an evidence-based decision, due to the fact that research shows treatment is very likely to be unsuccessful in these ladies. We also did not treat anyone with a BMI of less than 18.5 for the same reason.
Also pregnancy is riskier in people outside these BMI perameters for both mum and baby and we want the best possible outcome for everybody.
However I am happy to say that where I worked nobody was judgemental of these women and they were supported to lose or gain weight to a BMI which would maximise their chances of success.
The policy was applied sensitively and I can remember at least one lady who didn't quite get down into the 35s and below but was treated slightly above as she had lost a significant amount of weight and all the other clinical markers were hopeful of a good outcome.
I wish that people would be kinder - there is no need to judge anyone on their weight and infertility is a very difficult thing to deal with anyway.
Good luck to everyone here
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
This was an evidence-based decision, due to the fact that research shows treatment is very likely to be unsuccessful in these ladies. We also did not treat anyone with a BMI of less than 18.5 for the same reason.
Also pregnancy is riskier in people outside these BMI perameters for both mum and baby and we want the best possible outcome for everybody.
However I am happy to say that where I worked nobody was judgemental of these women and they were supported to lose or gain weight to a BMI which would maximise their chances of success.
The policy was applied sensitively and I can remember at least one lady who didn't quite get down into the 35s and below but was treated slightly above as she had lost a significant amount of weight and all the other clinical markers were hopeful of a good outcome.
I wish that people would be kinder - there is no need to judge anyone on their weight and infertility is a very difficult thing to deal with anyway.
Good luck to everyone here
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hey! Fattyfattyboomboom I read the first few and then your fantastic response! Well done you! It's amazing how many ignorant people are out there! I am so glad I am not one of them! Sure, I probably have opinions that not everyone would agree with but I like to think I would put my point across respectfully and not in the manner some of those ignorant posters on the Sun site.
zenabob2105
Silver Member
Although i don't have fertility problems, I have 2 lovely children,in April of this year I was donating my eggs to a friend that has, when I went to the hospital for the initial test etc., was told was obese, think my BMI was 33, and was told it was very close to the BMI 35, which was the biggest they would accept and they were undecided if they could do the procedure.
But I also think they have restrictions on age, as my friend turned 40 during the cycle and was afraid they would'nt continue.
Anyway it was the turning point for me, I lost a stone before the procedure, so was only classed as overweight, and now she is pregnant with twins....:girlpower::talk017:
zenabob2105
Silver Member
I think this is what makes people "want or need" to have a baby as people are saying they feel this way, then try and try, get test done and discover they have fertility problems, and that without IVF they won't as Charisma says "have one at some point in there life."
but as with most others if someone is obese and that is the ONLY reason they can't conceive, then weight should be lost before IVF is considered.
sm1ler
Full Member
Amen!! I am not religious at all but i TOTALLY AGREE WITH THIS STATEMENT!!! Glad im not the only one that thinks that Claire if the woman is totally healthy (apart from overweight) and fertile why should she have to loose to get IVF, its the guy with the problem and her loosing weight wont change that.
sm1ler
Full Member
very well said and ITA! i fink bmi 35 is ok but some places want 30 or less and thats hard.
sm1ler
Full Member
great story, brought a tear to my eye :tear_drop:
sm1ler
Full Member
OMG i just read this and i have no words to explain how it made me feel. Pure ignorance is all i can say, its not all black and white as they make it seem....
slimmerkay
Silver Member
I was just looking at the website again and saw this reply from Ausaender:
"I think the reason fat girls are unattractive to men is Nature's way to keep them from procreating.
Why mess with Nature?"
I would soooooo love to meet this guy face to face.
"I think the reason fat girls are unattractive to men is Nature's way to keep them from procreating.
Why mess with Nature?"
I would soooooo love to meet this guy face to face.
Claire1981
Is so very nearly there!
OMG THE CHEEK OF IT
X
X
Hmm. This is where I am with all this -
When we were told that our only 'significant' chance of being able to have a baby was through a type of IVF (ICSI for those who know what that means) we were keen to get started on the IVF route. My BMI at that point was about 32. Our reasons for IVF were three fold - 1) I have PCOS so have never had a regular cycle and have always suffered from several PCOS symptoms such as weight and excess hair. 2) My husband's sperm had poor motility (i.e they weren't good at swimming) and morphology (i.e they weren't the right shape) and 3) one of my tubes is blocked, therefore I only have 1 one working tube.
So, IVF looked like a ray of light in an otherwise cloudy atmosphere. At BMI 32 though they wouldn't even consider me for the NHS funded IVF. In my area you get ONE NHS IVF treatment. In other areas you get THREE. In some areas a BMI of 32 is accepted, in others, like mine, it isn't. It is a lottery of judgement.
Now some people may wonder what the point of going down a road often filled with heartache really achieves. After all IVF only has a roughly 25% success rate. If you know you only have 1 chance because you can't afford the £4500 for each other try then why put yourself through that? Well, for me and my husband, having children was always a part of life we desperately wanted. Many of you say it isn't a 'right' to have children - whilst I agree partly with this I do believe it is everyone's right to be able to try to have children if they desire it and IF they can be good parents to that child.
Not so long ago the amazing technologies used in fertility clinics nowadays didn't exist. Had we lived 50 years ago we would have simply been one of those couples who had to accept that children and grandchildren weren't on the horizon. However, we don't live in that time anymore. We live in a country where every day there are people who do know how to fix this problem, so shouldn't there be the opportunity for it to be fixed if it can be?
Now I accept that in the grand scheme of things, if, say, the government had to chose to spend £10, 000 on either new fertility treatment or new cancer treatment that the cancer treatment would be more appropriate. However, much money on the NHS is spent of not just saving lives but also on improving the quality of people's lives. For example eczema treatment, you may have eczema, it won't kill you, but if you have the right creams your life would be a lot happier. It's a similar principle with infertility. You don't NEED in a life threatening sense the fertility treatment, but if a child is something you have deeply desired and you know you can provide a loving environment for that child then your life will be improved by it.
So, we have the great technology in the this country to be able to improve people's lives by helping them conceive, not just IVF but there are several different types of fertility help, simple ones like drugs and obviously invasive ones like operations to try to fix internal damage, etc.
The problem here is that someone has decided to step forward and say that whilst the technology is there, not everyone who wants it deserves it. I can understand the medical reasons for over (or under) weight people being denied the treatment and I think that on paper that sounds fair.... However... it draws a thick black line and tells everyone over that line to go home. It doesn't allow for various factors. For example, we knew 2 of the 3 problems we were facing had nothing to do with my weight. I could be size 0 and my husband's sperm wouldn't be any better from it. I admit that my PCOS is intertwined with my weight and I do believe that controlling my weight is the key to controlling my PCOS. Was I offered any help to control my weight though? Was I explained the affects of PCOS or given any real help to deal with it? No, I was told 'just lose weight'.
So anyway, I did go home and I did lose weight and I got my BMI to 29.9 (!!!). The ironic conclusion to that story is that I then fell pregnant naturally.....!
However I do believe that each and every case should be judged on its own merits. The waiting list for IVF is VERY long, three years in some areas. Imagine how much weight you could lose in that time. They won't put you on the list at all though until they like your BMI. I agree that for most people, if they desire a child enough to go through significantly involved fertility treatment then they must care enough to get their bodies into the best shape they can. This applies to anyone planning on becoming parents in fact. I believe if a couple can show that they are preparing for the life long journey of being a parent, for example trying to lose weight, give up smoking, become financially secure etc etc, then they ought to be given a fair go. An obese lady could fall pregnant at her first attempt at IVF whilst a very slim lady might take 15 attempts (I know this as I know a lady who was perfectly healthy and thin and did take 15 attempts to get pg).
As for the cost of the pregnancy on the NHS... well a friend of mine recently had a baby, she was/is a very healthy weight. And she was low risk, it was her second. However she had a breech baby and needed several (8 I believe) scans and nearly ended up with a C-section but luckily at the eleventh hour the baby turned. So a perfectly healthy woman can end up costing the NHS loads on the birth anyway....
Emerald
X
When we were told that our only 'significant' chance of being able to have a baby was through a type of IVF (ICSI for those who know what that means) we were keen to get started on the IVF route. My BMI at that point was about 32. Our reasons for IVF were three fold - 1) I have PCOS so have never had a regular cycle and have always suffered from several PCOS symptoms such as weight and excess hair. 2) My husband's sperm had poor motility (i.e they weren't good at swimming) and morphology (i.e they weren't the right shape) and 3) one of my tubes is blocked, therefore I only have 1 one working tube.
So, IVF looked like a ray of light in an otherwise cloudy atmosphere. At BMI 32 though they wouldn't even consider me for the NHS funded IVF. In my area you get ONE NHS IVF treatment. In other areas you get THREE. In some areas a BMI of 32 is accepted, in others, like mine, it isn't. It is a lottery of judgement.
Now some people may wonder what the point of going down a road often filled with heartache really achieves. After all IVF only has a roughly 25% success rate. If you know you only have 1 chance because you can't afford the £4500 for each other try then why put yourself through that? Well, for me and my husband, having children was always a part of life we desperately wanted. Many of you say it isn't a 'right' to have children - whilst I agree partly with this I do believe it is everyone's right to be able to try to have children if they desire it and IF they can be good parents to that child.
Not so long ago the amazing technologies used in fertility clinics nowadays didn't exist. Had we lived 50 years ago we would have simply been one of those couples who had to accept that children and grandchildren weren't on the horizon. However, we don't live in that time anymore. We live in a country where every day there are people who do know how to fix this problem, so shouldn't there be the opportunity for it to be fixed if it can be?
Now I accept that in the grand scheme of things, if, say, the government had to chose to spend £10, 000 on either new fertility treatment or new cancer treatment that the cancer treatment would be more appropriate. However, much money on the NHS is spent of not just saving lives but also on improving the quality of people's lives. For example eczema treatment, you may have eczema, it won't kill you, but if you have the right creams your life would be a lot happier. It's a similar principle with infertility. You don't NEED in a life threatening sense the fertility treatment, but if a child is something you have deeply desired and you know you can provide a loving environment for that child then your life will be improved by it.
So, we have the great technology in the this country to be able to improve people's lives by helping them conceive, not just IVF but there are several different types of fertility help, simple ones like drugs and obviously invasive ones like operations to try to fix internal damage, etc.
The problem here is that someone has decided to step forward and say that whilst the technology is there, not everyone who wants it deserves it. I can understand the medical reasons for over (or under) weight people being denied the treatment and I think that on paper that sounds fair.... However... it draws a thick black line and tells everyone over that line to go home. It doesn't allow for various factors. For example, we knew 2 of the 3 problems we were facing had nothing to do with my weight. I could be size 0 and my husband's sperm wouldn't be any better from it. I admit that my PCOS is intertwined with my weight and I do believe that controlling my weight is the key to controlling my PCOS. Was I offered any help to control my weight though? Was I explained the affects of PCOS or given any real help to deal with it? No, I was told 'just lose weight'.
So anyway, I did go home and I did lose weight and I got my BMI to 29.9 (!!!). The ironic conclusion to that story is that I then fell pregnant naturally.....!
However I do believe that each and every case should be judged on its own merits. The waiting list for IVF is VERY long, three years in some areas. Imagine how much weight you could lose in that time. They won't put you on the list at all though until they like your BMI.
I agree that for most people, if they desire a child enough to go through significantly involved fertility treatment then they must care enough to get their bodies into the best shape they can. This applies to anyone planning on becoming parents in fact. I believe if a couple can show that they are preparing for the life long journey of being a parent, for example trying to lose weight, give up smoking, become financially secure etc etc, then they ought to be given a fair go. An obese lady could fall pregnant at her first attempt at IVF whilst a very slim lady might take 15 attempts (I know this as I know a lady who was perfectly healthy and thin and did take 15 attempts to get pg).As for the cost of the pregnancy on the NHS... well a friend of mine recently had a baby, she was/is a very healthy weight. And she was low risk, it was her second. However she had a breech baby and needed several (8 I believe) scans and nearly ended up with a C-section but luckily at the eleventh hour the baby turned. So a perfectly healthy woman can end up costing the NHS loads on the birth anyway....
Emerald
X
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