failure is not an option.

Discussion in 'General Weight Loss Discussion' started by jane, 14 April 2007 Social URL.

  1. jane

    jane Opinionated

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    I know that most of us regain some/all/more weight than we lose after dieting.

    I know that it doesn't have to be that way.

    Please,Can anyone tell me the answers to the following questions?

    1. what proportion of people regain after a loss of more than a stone or 2/

    2.Are the proportion the same regardless of diet used & rate of loss.

    3.what evidence is there that doing
    A] the 'head work' (during & after weight loss)as well as
    B]graduated reintroduction of food as goal eight approaches makes any difference to the liklihood of successfully maintaining?

    And by golly I hope that there is evidence,more than anecdotal,that learning what you did wrong,avoiding those behaviours,learning better ones & constant vigilance does help.
    All these I can,will,AM doing.Throw in a spadeful of determination -what more can I add.

    I'm not 1/2 way thee yet,but I'm loving what's happening ,to me(& the family-there are little knock-on effects I can perceive already). Anything I can do to reduce the risk of stepping on a snake & returning to square one I will do,(provided it's not dangerous or illegal!)
     
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  3. jane

    jane Opinionated

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    crikey! I thought someone would have some info on these thoughts.:cry:
     
  4. Happe

    Happe escaping the fat

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    Yeah come on people, we need answers!!
     
  5. MissPiggyFi

    MissPiggyFi somebody shrink me

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    I'm hesitant to answer as I'm sceptical myself- having lost weight with cd last year and regained it all and some :sigh:

    I believe the percentage of people who regain their weight within 5 years is about 90%. Depressing!

    How dieting can damage your health - Advice & Information | Hospital guide | Health services | Insurance – MSN Health & Wellbeing UK
    I read this earlier and it made me wonder why I bother!!

    But there are so many people on this site who are managing to maintain their weight- we just have to face the fact that this is a life-long commitment :(

    Come on maintainers..... cheer us up!!!
     
  6. GreenDayJen

    GreenDayJen Full Member

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    that's the problem. all the stats tell you that most dieters put their weight back on. i'd be interested to know what the percentage of people the regain on vlcds is though. does anyone know? thing is, the most important thing is to make sure you're not one of them isn't it?! xx
     
  7. jane

    jane Opinionated

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    dear miss piggy, Such a shame you put it back on again,but thanks for taking the time to answer & giving me the link--am off there now to read it up.
     
  8. jane

    jane Opinionated

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    Absolutely!
    That's what i'm worrying about now ,even though I'm not quite 1/2 way down!
    but boy am I feeling better already-all the more reason not to slide back again.
     
  9. fighting flab

    fighting flab Full Member

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    I'm with you jane,
    I'd love to know. I'm not half way there yet either but I'm determined...but...I've lost weight before (just healthy diet no particular plan) and put it all back on with interest :sigh:

    This time I did Lipotrim for 6 weeks and lost just over 2 stone...then went straight onto Slimming World. Don't get me wrong - I have loads more to lose and if I'd had more will power I would have stuck longer on Lipotrim. But I'm happier with SW. My friend did L at the same time and stopped about a week before I did. However, she was at goal when she stopped and didn't think she needed to join a slimming club...she has put nearly a stone on in a month :eek: The danger seems to be when people stop checking their weight. My friend said she's been too afraid to check her weight since she stopped L.

    I agree with GreenDayJen, we've all got to make sure we are not the ones that put the weight back on. I'm enjoying attending the SW group at the moment...but then I'm only in my 3rd week and the novelty may wear off! I think regular attendance will mean (even when I eventually reach my target weight :bliss:) that I am forced to regularly look at my weight and will get an early warning if things are going wrong. That's my long term plan anyway.

    Sorry for the long post, love ff x
     
  10. canireallydothis!!

    canireallydothis!! Gold Member

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    Hey Jane, Strong thoughts, and questions that many cant answer, including me!

    KD would be a great person to look at this one, shes taking a break at the moment but should be back soon, I may give MD a shout as she has some good views on maintence.

    Thing is I feel very new to this section, I have maintained, well, except for the odd couple of lb since November last year, I dont actually really feel qualified to give my thoughts!!!


    Please,Can anyone tell me the answers to the following questions?

    1. what proportion of people regain after a loss of more than a stone or 2/


    Not sure, but its up to 80% I think

    2.Are the proportion the same regardless of diet used & rate of loss.

    Funnily enough, yes, that I do know

    3.what evidence is there that doing
    A] the 'head work' (during & after weight loss)


    Not sure, I do my own head work really, and use people on here too, I will maintain though, may have a few ups n doons but I will
    as well as
    B]graduated reintroduction of food as goal eight approaches makes any difference to the liklihood of successfully maintaining?

    IMO (and only mine!) It stops rapid weight regain, and slowly introduces food to a level where you should know how many cals you need to keep steady, rather than stopping, gaining and going straight back to eating too much.


    I'm not 1/2 way thee yet,but I'm loving what's happening ,to me(& the family-there are little knock-on effects I can perceive already). Anything I can do to reduce the risk of stepping on a snake & returning to square one I will do,(provided it's not dangerous or illegal!)

    To me Jane, the fact you think about this means that some of the battle has been won x
    __________________


     
  11. KD

    KD Gone fishing

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    Teehee. Thanks for the vote of confidence Vicky;)

    What does it matter? I don't care if they've research 1 million people and they all put that weight back on. I'm not them. You're not them. We are individuals who make our own choices.
    Personally, I would expect there to be a higher 'failure' rate amongst VLCDers. Not because of the diet though, but because most people who embark on a vlcd tend to have more eating disorders. There again, this could be balanced out by the fact they usually know what it's like to be very overweight, rather than the slight annoyance of being just a few pound over and that could be sufficient motivation to keep at goal.
    Maybe there's no evidence. Don't know....but it doesn't really matter. Like the first question, we are individuals with our own problems and we have to work out what works for ourselves.

    For me, I had to do the head work. I had to treat it like any other 'illness'. Work out what was making me put on weight, then cure myself;) I had tried every other diet and put the weight back on. Had to try something different this time and the only thing I hadn't done before was the head work.
    I think this is really important. On a VLCD we lose a fair amount of glycogen, which will quickly return. It's not so likely that you will maintain your weight when you introduce more carbs into your diet, unless you are still on low enough calories to continue to lose.

    Beside that....VLCD's by their very nature include little to no food. You need that time to teach your body about healthy food. What it needs and what it doesn't need. You can do this with a more traditional diet as you go along, but with a VLCD it comes later.

    I hate the phrase 'learning to eat healthily'. People accuse the vlcd dieters of not doing that. We all know about healthy eating. Well, most of us do. We don't need to learn about it, but it's still a good time to put it into practice in a controlled way. Stops the 'diet on' 'diet off' mentality.

    I was going to keep this short. Whoops.
     
  12. GreenDayJen

    GreenDayJen Full Member

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    like that was ever gonna happen...;) :)
     
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  13. KD

    KD Gone fishing

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    Thank you for that Jen;) I am working on it. Didn't do well on that message.

    Will go back under my rock
     
  14. GreenDayJen

    GreenDayJen Full Member

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    any nice food under that rock? i am starving marvin! x
     
  15. jane

    jane Opinionated

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    Thanks vicky & K-d for your thoughts. you have the experience that counts.

    You both seem to feel along the same lines as Green daygen.
    'what does it matter about population statistics,as long as I/we can beat them & maintain our weight.

    Of course that's correct.

    Is the high relapse rate just down to returning to bad eating habits.intuitively it would seem to fit,but there mat be more to it than that.

    on the other hand,if we can relearn how what/much to eat does that alter the future?

    Soneone(?K_D) said theres more to it than knowing what to eat, & how true that is.

    If the failure rates are up to 80% assuggested above then whyaren't WW,CD & the like concentrating all their efforts into undertanding & tackling this.Conspiracy merchants would say because they can make more money by having us coming back again & again.But that doesn't really make sense as the company that wants to generate real money would demonstrate their low regain rates.

    sorry,thinking out loud-must be becoming more like M_D & unable to keep it brief.(no,only kidding,always been long winded)
     
  16. KD

    KD Gone fishing

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    Probably because it's just too big a job. If the top scientists can't do it.........

    Besides...that's not their business.

    But manufacturers don't work like that either. Things are made to last. It's not in their best interests.
     
    Last edited: 16 April 2007
  17. KD

    KD Gone fishing

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    BTW, there's a very interesting, though heavy article here:

    Long-term weight loss maintenance -- Wing and Phelan 82 (1): 222S -- American Journal of Clinical Nutrition

    Many facts and figures to chew over, but if you want the reduced version, it goes like this:

    20% of peole manage to maintain over time.

    They found 6 key strategies for long term success

    1) Exercise
    2) eating a diet that is low in calories and fat.
    3) eating breakfast.
    4) self-monitoring weight on a regular basis - I've heard this is daily...which I do:)
    5) maintaining a consistent eating pattern - More people maintained over the long term when they didn't eat more at weekends or holiday time...and then cut back
    6) catching "slips" before they turn into larger regains.

    They also found that you were more likely to maintain if you had lost weight because of a medical event (warning of heart attack etc).

    These findings came from the National Weight Control Registry

    Oh and they also decided that you were more likely to keep the weight off if you could maintain for 2 years after reaching goal.
    And lastly, most people who put on some weight in the first year after the diet' didn't manage to get back to that goal weight.
     
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  19. canireallydothis!!

    canireallydothis!! Gold Member

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    scary stuff tbh, but I like it funnily enough, makes me not get complacent x
     
  20. Eclipse

    Eclipse Gold Member

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    10 years ago I first did Lipotrim. I never, ever put all the weight back on. I did gain a few pounds, never more than 7, and have done LT a couple of times since to get down lower. I fully intended originally to do this in "stages" and when I was ready for the next stage I did LT again. Originally at my heaviest I was 18st 11lbs, and now I am 10st 5lbs. I have not gone over 11st 2lbs for the past 2 years. I am currently trying to lose a little more, to get to about 10 stone, which will give me a BMI of 21ish.

    Hope this helps. And well done on thinking ahead, and even weller doner for your great weight loss so far Jane!!!
     
  21. jane

    jane Opinionated

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    Thanks eclipse.
    In order to keep your self so close to goal what preventative or early warning measures did you take?

    ps well done on beating the statistics & keeping in your goal range for so long.
    Karion didn't include data on relapse so far on,but if the prognosis improves at 2yrs,then 10 yrs has to be a good indicator of long term relearning &success.Do you feel secure that you won't regain now ?
     
  22. jane

    jane Opinionated

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    Oh Karion I did a really long thoughful reply to your info this am,but just as I finished it, my internet failed & it all got lost.
    Nevertheless, I want to say thanks for the info you've given on this thread.

    Noewhy should that be?
    Biochemically/physiologically it's nonsense,so motivation must be the key.As it is all the way through
    Strangely ,I wasn't surprised when I saw your post on this.
    There's no doubt in my mind that ,for me,eternal vigilance will have to be my watchword.Actually = 2 words but so what...

    I'd like ,respectfully, to disagree here.the entire arguement being hypothetical ,of course ,as it's all pie-in-the-sky anway.
    In the end,of course,any company thathad a diet that guarenteed no weight gain at the end,would put itself out of busuness.
    But in the west as we have it at present, we have a weight problem in epidemic.Anyone that could, say, double the success at maintainance would stand to make squillions. It isn't against the companies best interests to have people succeed-not as long as there are milions more faties in need of help.My guess is that they are looking into it,but not making big noises about results for fear of putting punters off.
    Guarenteed failure isn't the best way to open wallets!
     
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