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First ever gain

Oh dear...

Week 3 management and I have had my first gain of 2.2lbs.
I was a little shocked to finally see the scales go up after such a long time - but I think i am ok with it.

For starters I have been so caught up in the food side of things that my water intake has dribbled away to nothing (eek) so currently my rings which kept flying off my fingers a week ago - are stuck in little furrows where my hands are all puffy! So as of today - my little postit is stuck back on my monitor at work so I can mark off my water intake throughout the day (something I onyl stopped doing this week!)

Also, I made some homemade bread for a dinner party the night before weigh in ..... you know the rest..... it was only one slice, but I think that made a bi difference on the scales.

All sounds pretty reasonable doesn't it - until I fess up to the 2 thick slices of homemade bread toasted with butter and homemade srtawberry jam that I rebelliously troffed last night after weigh in.
Whoops. So weight this morning is even worse. BAD GIRL! It stops there and everything is fine today. Water chart ... check. Healthy food only ... check. No more bread.... (awwwww thats not fair....) check!!! No more baking...... definately check.

Chunkychicken is back on track as of ..... NOW!

By the way - does anyone know how long it takes roughly for your glycogen stores to re-fill if you follow the programme strictly? At the moment the fluctuations are insane - one slice of bread seems to equal 2.2lb gain. I know this doesn't happen in the "real world" once your glycogen is full and you are back to "normal" - I assume this must be around week 8 or so as this is when you add in the trigger weeks - but does anyone actually know ?

Many thanks
Naughty Chicken.
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chicken on a mission

Restarting to lose 4stone
Right then my fellow chicken :D

Have you been keeping up with your thought records. It's time to see this a positive and make the most of it.

You are doing fabulously to have recognised the issues with water and put in place a strategy to help you. You now ned to do the same regarding the food.

What were you feeling when you had your blip, were you are to put some time between the want and the have to allow you ti think it through or did it all happen so fast you only realised what had happened afterwards.

This is a fantastic oportunity for you to work on a few issues so go for it :D


Serial Foodie!
S: 19st7lb C: 18st2lb G: 9st7lb BMI: 49.6 Loss: 1st5lb(6.96%)
Hiya Chicken. I have no idea about how long it takes the stores to fill up but the other chicken makes a good suggestion. For me, I just wanted to say U have done incredibly well losing so much weight and i think its great u r being realistic about why u gained this week. I hope the rest of management goes smoothly for you. xxx
Dear Laura (won't call you chunky, even if that's how you feel after a 2.2lb weight gain! LOL!)

Totally agree with Chicken on a Mission - very, very good advice.

Second piece of advice from me - the scales will fluctuate. In Route to Management, the swing has been at least 7lbs but on my LLC's it's down to a 3lb swing. In spite of feeling like a big fat failure, my LLC says to be holding this weight is GOOD, REALLY GOOD!

I want to reassure you that a slice of bread, or two, with or without jam, will NOT make you put on loads of weight. HOWEVER, what might make the difference is whether the bread and jam develops into a loaf of bread and so on and so on and so on. You get the picture! If you can nip it in the bud, I promise you it will be ok. It's what happens NOW, after the bread. I speak from experience.

Please don't beat yourself up - it's an opportunity to learn! LOL! But, joking aside, it really is and it will give you insight.

Big kiss!

Love Mrs Lxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hello all and thank you all for your lovely replies.

My fellow chicken.... You are totally right. I have been doing "informal" thought records in my head - but think it is time I do them a bit more formally (also so I can look back at them instead of trying to remember what I did last time).

The answer to the bread thing was that at the party I was in adaptive child mode, I had made the bread, my friends said it was so delicious and that it was a crime I couldn't have any... after all how many calories are in bread???? So I just caved in. My mistake good and proper and I know better. I knew it would affect the WI and at that point I didn't care. The difference is that in future I will know that until my glygogen stores are replenished and I am a LOT further down the road that I cannot play hard and fast with the rules without getting my arse spanked by the scales !!!

Last night with the additional toast/butter/jam it was a rebellious up yours to the LL journey. It was childish it was stupid, it felt GREAT. I am not feeling in the least bit guilty at the moment because it was nothing but a blip. I don't feel the need to eat anything more and in a way it was cleansing to have something I really wanted for myself and that is that. I know it is not on the programme, I know it affected my weight, i know I shouldn't have done it, but after nearly 7 months on the programme I needed a "feck it" moment. I thoroughly enjoyed it and it is out of my system.

So what have a learnt??

I need to be more assertive about what I need and what I want regardless of whether people I care about understand at the time.

on the flip side...

Denying yourself anything and everything you want/need/crave for over 1/2 a year makes Laura a dull girl. Sometimes just letting your hair down once CAN cleanse the system and be exactly what you need. I don't advocate anyone else following my school of thought - but ... just this once... I was right. I FEEL better and refocused.

I bet no one at all understands what I am talking about here - but that is the kicker... it doesn't matter.... this is my journey and the best thing about LL that I am learning (still a work in practice ... see first slice of bread reasoning for this) is that my life is unique to me and after years of people pleasing and allowing others to run my life for me, I am taking back control... only I know what I need - sometimes no one else will understand or agree. AND THAT IS OK.

By jove I think I am making progress. (real progress not just following the prorgamme like a blind sheep!)

Thanks guys
Dear Laura

Everything you say makes PERFECT sense. Sorry if I sounded harsh????

One thing that has helped me enormously is my LLC saying don't let a blip become a trend. When I put on weight for two weeks running, her words made sense.

The other thing is that LL is ALL about accessing your adult and you will make the programme work for you. Remember, many (including myself) have fallen long, long, long before you.

Big kiss.

Mrs Lxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hi Laura, I have quite a few thoughts about glycogen! First, here is a reply I got from LL HQ when I asked about it:

This is really quite individual, glycogen stores can be in continuous flux and energy requirements are different for different people. It would also depend very much upon what you choose to eat and the amounts that you eat during Route to Management, but it is also dependent upon how active you are. To speak very generally, your glycogen stores could start to replenish slightly from the very beginning of the Route to Management, but only very gradually, and this is part of the reason for reintroducing carbohydrate foods very gradually, to avoid the sudden storage of glycogen and the water associated with this. From around week 3 or 4 of the management programme slightly more carbohydrate is introduced in the form of fruit and then in week 5 starchy vegetables are introduced and these are higher in carbohydrate than other choices and so most people are probably more likely to start to replenish glycogen at this stage, and will probably continue to increase throughout the weeks.

As with everything there are no hard and fast rules as everybody is completely different.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any further queries.
Kind regards

I have had a gain over the last 2 days as I have eaten some high GI carbs after not eating anything other than very low GI for a while. Here is what I ate (confession): 2 roast potatoes, 1 yorkshire pudding, 2 cookies, 2 shortbread biscuits, 2 packs of mini pringles, 1 small slice of cake. And no, I didn't eat them all at once! They were spread over 2 days and I really enjoyed eating them! Now I estimate that adds up to about 1500 calories. Given that you have to overeat by 3500 calories to gain a pound of fat, I think the fact that my scales show 4 lbs higher:eek: this morning than on Tuesday has something to do with glycogen. I am by no means an expert in nutrition so what I think is not necessarily correct but here goes:

At the start of this week I reckon my glycogen was pretty much depleted and I was eating in a way that the Food Doctor eating plan advocates, eating low GI little and often to give your body fuel as it needs it from what you've just eaten rather than what you have stored as glycogen solution. So when I stuffed some high GI food in, my body released a load of insulin into my blood to sort out the big sugar load and converted it to glycogen, which, as we've been told, is held in 4 times its weight in water. So although my first instinct is to panic and think,"I'm rubbish at this; I can't control my eating; I'll get fat again...etc" I know in my head that this blip is just that and it doesn't mean much unless I let it. I've got to think rationally and face why I went down the high GI road (basically I was tired and there was nobody around to see me when I ate the crisps and cookies!). Then I hope I will learn from this episode of "off-piste" eating (love that phrase Mrs L!) and get back to where I was. I think glycogen does fluctuate a lot if you are eating a low GI diet so anything high GI will show up on the scales in a disproportionate way.

Just seen your last post and can really relate to your enjoyment of the bread! The difficulty I experience when I let my hair down is ithat it can start me off on a craving for cakes and biscuits, so I know I need to be careful. It is lovely having a piece of toast and butter after so long though, isn't it?! Off to have a salad now...
Just remembered I also ate 2 small bars of chocolate last night - I had totally wiped that from my mind!! So that's another 500 calories... It was delicious but an unwise choice! Thought I'd better make the confession a complete one...(part of the learning process)


Gold Member
S: 12st7.0lb C: 11st5.0lb G: 10st0lb BMI: 26.5 Loss: 1st2lb(9.14%)
Hi Laura x

Ok as you know I am at the end of my week 3 management, This morning I had gone up by 3lbs as last night I went out with OH and friends for a meal and had a rump steak and salad, my first red meat in 12 weeks, It was fabulous and I ate it all, shouldnt of done but I did, also yesterday I had a major protein binge, late afternoon I just ate some large prawns with vinegar and pepper, a slice of ham and 2 small cooked chicken pieces which where sundried tomato and basil flavoured. OOps!

An hour before we went out my daughter was cooking tuna & pasta for herself and sister, cooked too much and there I was eating what was left in the pan, Now Pasta, I am not a great lover of it so to me it is not a trigger food, but it is high in carbs, and what with loads of fruit yesterday it is not suprising a gain of 3lbs from yesterday and whilst its confession time I also had 3 glasses of red wine last night as well.

I have just realised ho important it is to write down what you eat a day, as I am typing this I cannot believe how much I ate yesterday, but in my mind I thought it wasnt that bad, how wrong was I.

I have slight guilt now, but today I dont feel hungry.

And I must try to drink water again as I just dont drink it at all now.!

I love you people so much!!!!
I have never felt so supported as I do on this forum it is a great feeling - so thank you all so much!

Mrs L ... no I didn't hink for one second you were being anywhere near harsh - so please don't read my response as a knee jerk reaction to something you said. I simply started to respond to everyone's posts with the "correct" response (adaptive child adaptation of what I SHOULD be thinking feeling about my blip) and realised I felt exactly the opposite and I wasn't in child mode at all. This was actually Laura saying - nope I don't feel guilty, I feel BETTER. So I thought I would share my thoughts with you all....

Goombagirl - thanks for sharing that email - it all makes some sort of sense. I realise that everyone will be different but I am (perhaps wrongly) trying to look ahead as always to see when things in weight fluctuation land will be more normal. I.e. any punishments on the scale will fit the crime. Like you said we are all getting spanked visciously at the moment - what you have eaten "off piste" (PMSL Mrs L) is by no means worthy of a 4lb spanking!!!

I have to keep reassessing my thinking around this... am I trying to find out this information so that in future I can be naughty with my eating and not get such punishment as I am now? Or is it simply that the mad fluctuations are making me very jittery and nervous and I long for a more laid-back approach to food (i.e. not stressing about every little mouthful and hopping on and off the scales 20 times a day) ??? I think the sad answer is, a little bit of both possibly 25% vs 75% respectively. So I guess that needs more work but for now - I will continue with the bunny in the headlights look every time I open the fridge or pass the scales. I am sure it will all calm down in the end.

All in all, I think that we will all will find our own path.
The most amazing this about all this - is that for the first time in 10 years I actually am PAYING ATTENTION. I have been sitting back all these years thinking that being overweight "happened to me" and I was in permanent victim mode about that.
At least now (bumpy road or not) I completely see that what I do / eat affects me and no one else is involved at all.
My responsibility - therefore within my control.

And best of all - no more secret eating. 3 weeks now I have eaten everything that has past my lips in plain sight of others. It is a total revelation.

Thanks everyone
Oh and another thing -

Sun you are totally right - I have been keeping a little diary of what i am eating (absolutely everything down to salad dressing etc) and it helps so much.
I also calorie count sometimes too, just to get some sort of normal perspective as to what I am eating. After being on packs for so long, some days I feel like I have eaten a mountain of food and when I tot it all up - I am amazed how little it comes to.
Also it reminds me how some foods are just not worth it. Like the aforementioned cursed bread - it is homemade, dense heavy white bread - easily over 100 cals a slice plus butter and jam.... eeeeek
I could have had my protein meal twice over for that many calories.

Anyway I am off home for the weekend now
love you all to bits

chicken on a mission

Restarting to lose 4stone
Do you know what Laura, I think that little blip has done you the world of good. Just look at what you have learnt about yourself. :D

In my experience I am excellent doing the diet. I will do the diet with no blips at all this time round just like I did on LL last time around. How do I do it and find it so easy? I am in adaptive child the whole time.

What I haven't learnt to do is change out of adaptive child mode so after a while the rebelious child takes over but only when some kind of a value judgement is required.

Please please please don't make the mistake I did. Go right through the management programme to help you back into the world of food and then continue to go and get weighed when you have completed the programme.

I did neither and bunged 4 stone back on.

Weirdly enough I don't see that as a problem because I am back in adaptive child mode again :rolleyes:

I wish I had the money to go back to LL but I quite simply can't and need to figure things out as best I can for myself.


Taking it Day by Day
I just want to say a quick thank you all for your honesty and your inspirational posts!! You are all going through incredible learning curves at the moment.

I am just at the start of management but as I have been struggling for the last couple of weeks on development and have had ups and downs, I had to deal with quite a lot of the issues prematurely, but in a way I think it has helped me to prepare myself for eating properly again. like you Laura, this is probably the first time i am paying proper attention to what is happening. As I have always been big (and I also felt like this just happened to me) it is literally relearning everything about being around food and I am so grateful for all the tools LL has given me to do this. I love the food and mood diary, it's a great little helper. Have a nice weekend!!!!


Gone fishing
By the way - does anyone know how long it takes roughly for your glycogen stores to re-fill if you follow the programme strictly? At the moment the fluctuations are insane - one slice of bread seems to equal 2.2lb gain.
I remember a gain of 2lbs when I first had a slice of bread. Cor...wasn't I upset. Especially as it was in the 'carefully formulated' plan on Cambridge. It settled though.

I know this doesn't happen in the "real world" once your glycogen is full and you are back to "normal"
I do find I have odd fluctuations in weight with certain foods, even now. It settles down though even if I carry on eating them each day.
Or is it simply that the mad fluctuations are making me very jittery and nervous and I long for a more laid-back approach to food (i.e. not stressing about every little mouthful and hopping on and off the scales 20 times a day) ??? I think the sad answer is, a little bit of both possibly 25% vs 75% respectively. So I guess that needs more work but for now - I will continue with the bunny in the headlights look every time I open the fridge or pass the scales. I am sure it will all calm down in the end.
Oh goodness yes. I remember feeling exactly the same. I was so scared. Scared of not being able to eat normally, scared of eating anyway and gaining, running between knowing I could do this and thinking that I couldn't possibly manage.

To be honest, in hindsight I'm pleased I took it all so seriously for so long. People might have laughed at me, but it's important to get it right isn't it. There's plenty of time to relax when you feel more confident. That's what I thought anyway.

You sound like you are doing just grand:cool:
Thank you all again for your support. I knew when I started managment that everyone said "the hard work starts here" but I think in some flipant way somewhere inside I didn't think that would apply to me. In some cocky newly found LL confidence way I thought I would sail through..... In some ways I have done better than I hoped and in others ... well the egg is still running down my face!!!

Chicken - I understand what you mean about getting stuck in adaptive child mode.. and I think this blip was me finally breaking free of that. Perhaps what I have learnt is that i need to be able to trust MYSELF in the real world with food because no matter how long after management I continue to go to WI's at some point I need to take control back. There will not always be someone telling me what to do. Ok this time... I didn't do great. I ate something off plan and it affected my weight. But it didn't start an almighty "kid in a sweetshop" stampede of bingeing - so maybe I am more "trustworthy" around food than I give myself credit for???

Thanks again everyone for your replies and support.
I am having a great day today as the sun is shining brightly in Manchester for once! Tonights dinner is already in the slowcooker and all is well in the world.

hope everyone is having as good a day as I am
Love Laura


Gold Member
S: 12st7.0lb C: 11st5.0lb G: 10st0lb BMI: 26.5 Loss: 1st2lb(9.14%)
aww god, I feel I've eaten too much again, whats wrong with me, if its not too much protein its fruit and sugar free jellies, I have to do some serious thought records, nip this in the bud before its too late.

Today breakfast, 1 lemon LL bar made into biscuits,
snack, small plastic cup of sugar free jelly with some raspberries & 3 tbsps mullerlite yoghurt
lunch, LL chocolate shake made into muffin with more raspberries
!!!naughty snack 1/2 pack prawns with vinegar and pepper!!!!
dinner chicken breast stuffed with tomato basil and mixed leaf salad, jelly, peaches & 3 tbsps yoghurt
!!!naughty snack other 1/2 of prawns with vinegar and pepper!!!

how many calories do you thin that is?

:( :(

sorry to hijack your thread Laura

sun x
Sun - don't worry about "hijacking" the thread. Its for everyone!
From what you have said you have eaten - (and depending what week you are on - I am guessing 4?) then the only thing you have done that could be considered "off piste" was the extra protein portion in the prawns.
Guestimating your calories ... although not sure how helpful that will be to you, but as you asked...

Lemon bar = (not sure exactly as I don't eat them) = 150cals
Sugar free jelly = 10-15cals not sure what brand you have
Rasberries = 10 cals
muller lite = 51 cals for 1/2 pot
Choc pack = 125cals
Rasberries = 10cals
Prawns whole pack (don't know how much in the pack) but 100g = 106cals
Chicken breast = 200g = 162cals
Tomato stuffing = so small hard to work out = 10
Mixed leaf salad = guess 20cals
Jelly = 10 to 15cals
Peaches = (assuming canned) = 60 cals (but this is a biggish portion)
More yoghurt = (?muller lite) = 51cals

So totting all that up and bearing in mind that a lot of this is guessing..

Total = 785 cals
So as you can see dear Sun - you are stressing over nothing.
Depending on what week you are on - you may even be eating too little.
Keep your water up and remember you can have your veg snack too - there is a lot of fruit in your days eating which with the natural sugars may be making your blood sugar rise and fall a bit too much. You could try adding in a little more variety of veg to see if that balances you out a bit.
Above all, try not to panic (I know I have no room to talk... but it is one thing giving good advice and quite another to apply it to yourself LOL) and listen to your body as well as the LL book. If you keep going to the fridge for a bit more again and again, chances are you are either hungry and therefore need to make your mealtimes more substantial, or suffering from the sugar rollercoaster. I know that muller lite does this to me as the sugar content is quite high (as do grapes).
I hope this helps a little Sun.
Remember, we can't all live on 500 cals a day forever, you are now out of ketosis and therefore your body needs more input. I know we have to be careful to balance whilst we are re-filling our glycogen but at some point we need to accept that eating is ok and not something to be scared of.
Take care and I hope you have a nice day

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