Self-Sabotage - HELP!

[Cerulean]

One thing I discovered about people in the last year is that they really don't think about you as much as you think they do. People may treat you more positively if you're skinny and wearing the shiny clothes and have freshly saloned hair, but it's also about creating a cycle of self care. I've seen men swoon over 20 stone bombshells with glossy hair and a lipstick pout that says 'I'm worth it' and pass over prettier girls in the 16s who were in a grubby top and greasy hair that said 'Don't even look at me'

I kept saying to my LLC all the way down through the weights that the weight was no longer what I was paying for. I've mentioned before on here, that the posts that bring me down the most on Minis are the ones when people say 'I only lost a lb - what's wrong with me?' I always feel like shouting - but what did you GAIN this week?! Did you notice that you can jump up the steps you always used to puff up, did you feel confident enough to be cheeky with the chap at the newsagent? Did you stand up for yourself in a meeting when normally you say nothing? I gained so much in self esteem and self control - how many diets have you honestly stuck to for more than a week before little cheats snuck in? How many diets lasted more than a month?

Whatever you feel yourself to be, Sez - and I'm not going to patronise you with beauty on the inside rubbish - you are a million times better than you were. Start first of all with the improvement in your health - I think in a lot of ways health is the foundation of beauty - if you're worrying or cranky you aren't smiling...looking after yourself is vital. Every day can be an ugly day if you let it be...it's the most dangerous trap of all - and as you've quite rightly recognised - if you feel like that you're not taking care of yourself.

I'd seriously ask your adult to have a word with that voice that says that you're not worth it (it's well intended - the voice wants to stop others from hurting by keeping you under their radar) - There's a Paul McKenna line from one of his CDs you can adapt where you thank the voice for protecting you from being hurt by others for so many years but now that you are taking control of your self esteem you would like to manage yourself in a more nurturing positive way.

I think you are coming very close to blossoming, Sarah...really and truly I do.

My thoughts on sabotage
Sabotage is protection from fear - there is a theory that the word came from a time during the Industrial Revolution in France when mill workers would throw their shoes (sabots) into the looms to stop them from working. They were doing damage to protect themselves from the fear of losing their livelihood. It's protection...you are trying to look after yourself - but in a non-productve way!

My thoughts on writing a new script
I can;t remember when I said it, but I gave a lot of thought to what iw anted to be on the other side of management and came down to the conclusions of what this article says.

I'll share the affirmation for my future that I started to build back then...it's a bit long but I needed to use certain words and be specific about some things. Now that my food choices have widened I am going to start to use it to see if it helps to control the binges.

My name is Sarah and I eat light, nourishing, quality meals when I am hungry. I enjoy rich food in appropriate portions on a daily basis without guilt and I am full of energy and light.
I am active in some way for at least an hour every day because I enjoy it!

Slimming down
One of the great things about abstinence is that I can go anywhere now and quite happily have just a pot of tea and a water and not feel deprived or like I should have ordered an entire meal! Even without food, LL adapted my behaviour into that of a sane, slim woman rather than an disciple of the Crazy Cake Queen! The binge behaviour is peculiar - but I separate it totally from my normal eating so that I don't confuse the two - eventually I am going to have to deal with healthy meals plus having just one slice of cake without running like a mad woman towards the nearest bakery. My ultimate goal is to be like I was after my Paul McKenna seminar - able to have a bar of chocolate in the house and help myself to the last chunk of it about 10 days after opening it because I was able to eat it a couple of pieces at a time when I felt like it. I want to have a biscuit tin that has biscuits in it that I don't empty at 10 o'clock at night because I thought that would make me feel better than a cup of chamomile tea and an early night.

I sort of have to pull all of this together - but I know I am heading in the right direction - I am not allowing my binges to scupper me - rather I understand that my Route to Management has to inevitable take me through some of them so that I can deal with them and come out the other side knowing that if I have them I can correct my behaviour afterwards, but also not to avoid the pain they are tying to smother, but look at what I was trying to hide with sugar and fat. They are cries for help - and in the old days I would just ignore them until the cries got louder.

 

[Mrs Lard]

Sarah

That's a great post, it really is.

Sez - not sure if this helps but one of the successful weight holders in my Management group said that she still has 'fat days' - not where she eats more but she just feels pretty...well, fat! Clothes can also be a trigger, I think.

The thing that struck me the most about this article is step four...

REINFORCE THE IMAGE DAILY… EVEN HOURLY

Read your written goal at least twice a day; once in the morning and once again at night. These are the times when your subconscious mind is most impressionable. An incredibly powerful technique is to write your written description on a goal card and carry it with you everywhere you go. Every time you put your hand in your pocket and touch the card, it will make you think about your new image. Every time you get a chance, pull out your card and read it, mentally picturing yourself as if you were already there.

Maybe that's what we need - an hourly reminder? I know it's intense but when it's tough...we need more (to support ourselves).

Take care everyone.

Big kiss.

Mrs L xxxx

 

[Sez]

Phew! This truly is such a strong thread. Such a huge amount of help and advice flowing to & from everyone here.

Cerulean, thank you. I so want to blossom and there are times when I think I am going to make it. Today I visited the hair dresser again, I sat in that chair, in front of that huge mirror and I FELT GOOD! Not fat, ugly or any other negative, make up on, hair being "sorted" and fairly new clothes made me feel good. Even the fact that my stylist is a young, very lovely slim blonde, with (it seems) a great personality too, I felt ok, I fit in now.

Mrs L, my self sabotage still happens and I beleive will continue to happen. As with you, my task will be to learn why and record all those thoughts and voices. I applaud the idea of an hourly re-affirmation of our goals. Developement for me continues to be very very hard, with those goals slipping further away, not in reality but in my mind.

My holiday and my inability to restrict my food has frightened me. My OH has said, and very sagely, that I MUST do RTM, whether I choose to join it now (I dont) or when I have lost the next 40lbs. He feels that this will be huge help to me when I do eat normally once again. From reading these posts, it seems that we indeed are as recovering alcoholics. Food will always be an issue to us, the drug that numbs the pain. We must must must look to those goals we started with, as often as we possibly can, re-adjust if necessary and focus on our futures.

I hope this blurb makes sense. I am not always as eloquent as I would like to be. Take care all. xx

 

[hopefilly]

Thank you all you wise and wonderful people for your posts you have no idea how much good you are all doing I find this thread so thought provoking it really is helping me to continue. love Mandy x.

 

[Mrs Lard]

Dear Sez (and everyone else reading this thread)

I want to say that's an amazing post; what I was going to write this morning was this - after making my husband toast and NOT having even a sniff (!) was that until and unless we think of ourselves as recovering addicts, the whole thing continues to be really, really hard.

A few times I have written (on my blog) that I feel like an addict - in recovery - but sometimes I lose my adult voice and go crazy. I am determined to understand the whole addiction cycle/psyche - something I hope will help me (and others).

Your hubby is right; RtM is a must for long-term success, however painful that process may be (and sadly, for me, it's proving to be shockingly and painfully hard).

We can do this! We really can.

Have a lovely Sunday.

Take care.

Mrs Lxxx

 

[AmandaJayne]

Thank you, everyone for your wonderful and sometimes, painfully honest posts on this difficult subject.

I have been struggling with powerful feelings of inadequacy recently. They have slowly grown back and taken hold over the past few weeks. At first when I became aware of these thoughts I banished them and blithely carried on with my life. However, these are powerful core beliefs and would not be stifled. They clung and tightened their grip and, despite my best efforts, began to make a difference to my outlook.

Mrs L's timely post on self-image and sabotage was a revelation and I printed it off to keep.

I have read about the four steps and am daunted about the first one "creating a new self-image". At the moment my current-self image is difficult (no, impossible) to look at, it is so terrible. However, if I want to change things I have to be brave and make a start.

I do believe that if I follow the steps then I will begin to see improvements very soon. I just have to be brave and take that first step! Wish me luck.

 

[Sez]

Thank you, everyone for your wonderful and sometimes, painfully honest posts on this difficult subject.

I have been struggling with powerful feelings of inadequacy recently. They have slowly grown back and taken hold over the past few weeks. At first when I became aware of these thoughts I banished them and blithely carried on with my life. However, these are powerful core beliefs and would not be stifled. They clung and tightened their grip and, despite my best efforts, began to make a difference to my outlook.

Mrs L's timely post on self-image and sabotage was a revelation and I printed it off to keep.

I have read about the four steps and am daunted about the first one "creating a new self-image". At the moment my current-self image is difficult (no, impossible) to look at, it is so terrible. However, if I want to change things I have to be brave and make a start.

I do believe that if I follow the steps then I will begin to see improvements very soon. I just have to be brave and take that first step! Wish me luck.

It seems to me that those of us who have carried this problem with us long term, and who are either within sight of the goalpost or even just past it, have a huge learning curve yet to follow.

This post from AJ was an enormos eyeopener to me, as in my ignorance I had thought that she (you, sorry AJ!) was over the self-image hurdle and striding forth. It just goes to show that being obese, causes more than just relativley short term (if dealt with) health issues, but can actually damage us far more than I personally had realised.

I have said before to Cerulean, that I have hung a lot of my long term issues on the fact that I was so overweight. Yes, I have 3 stone to go, but the problems have not disappeared or even shrunk. What has happened is that I am now able to see things in their own light, as it were. My emotional self sabotage comes, and it does often, when I allow these issues to take over my thoughts and behavior. Only this morning I went through the "I cant do this. Whats the point? Who cares anyway?" scenario. I ended up eating a bit of tuna and 4 slices of ham, before I managed to deal with that one.

I am curious to know if LL, after its early support for its clients, offers anything further once we have gone through RTM and beyond? If they cannot, and I can understand that perhaps they genuinely cant, do they have a referral mechanism by which they can advise their clients in need of further support, where to go? It might be something that we could suggest to LL HQ. (Do they read any of Minis I wonder?)

As has been said before, for many of us this has been a very long term or even lifelong problem. The emotions and feelings bound up with food and eating, using it as a comfort tool or security blanket, have taken a very long time to learn and for many cannot be "unlearned" in a few months.


As for the rest of today, I am off to have a strawberry shake, and sit in the garden sewing name labels on my sons new school uniform! The family have gone to the beach so I have a coupe of hours of peace and quiet!!! Yippee!! I have chance to gird my loins before MIL's BBQ later on tonight.........LOL!! Oh, and I have just done a god 1000 steps on my LTT, with another set planned for tonight!

 

[Mrs Lard]

Hello Everyone

Popping in and out today. Sending you love and hugs as I think that's what we all need right now.

I want to reassure you (if my LLC is anything to go by) that yes, LighterLife does indeed offer support beyond Route to Management. Route to Management is a 12 week programme BUT you take as long as you like to do it, redoing certain weeks if you need to. Then there is another monthly programme, which I think means you come in every four weeks for a check in, guage how you are doing, etc. After that, it's up to you to attend the meetings as and when you want to. But don't quote me on this!!

I wrote about three women on my blog who were celebrating a big anniversary with LighterLife; they are well and truly done with Management (as opposed to Route to Management). Management is for the rest of your life. And in that sense, Management is the beginning.

If a weekly meeting is what it takes to stay on track, so be it. If we went to Overeaters Anonymous, we would have the option of attending meetings EVERY DAY! And remember the addict's mantra - "A Day at a Time" and sometimes, days seem really really long when you are trying to stay away from the food. Well, that's what I have found. And other days just fly by and food isn't even on my radar. Incredible but true.

What I have found today is that even though I am almost (but not quite) five stone lighter than I was at the beginning of the year and definitely seven stone lighter than I was three years ago, some problems don't go away and the urge to eat has not gone away either.

I felt sad about that but then took myself off to bed with a cup of tea, just to try to stay calm.

Amanda - try to work out when those feelings started coming back. There may well be a trigger. You were so happy after your cruise - what has changed since then? You don't need to post here but it may help you. For those of us who have been big all of our adult lives, we are having to live in a completely different way. And we should not underestimate that.

I'll keep posting what I find. And believe me, I have done a lot of searching today!

Big kiss.

Mrs L xxxxx

 

[Cerulean]

There is a final stage to LL which is explained at the back of the green book - I even think once you have completed the entire programme that there is a place on the website (although have you noticed the rebuild for the pre Christmas joiners?) that you get a password for for ongoing support - but yes - LL offers lifelong support for everyone who completes the entire programme and the weekly sessions that your LLC offers are free. The RtM book also talks about 4 week returner slots if you need to shift some gained weight and (and I really don't agree with this) also continuing to use foodpacks at the rate of a pack a day (nice way for them to keep making money out of you when RtM should have taught you not to need processed food). But yes - there is support!

 

[Sez]

Thanks for these replies. (Note to self.... Read books properly in future!!)

 

[Mrs Lard]

Hello Everyone

Sorry for not posting for a while;Route to Management has been taking it out of me (not weight, sadly) and I am trying to find some answers to all the crazy crooked thinking (and subsequent behaviour) that has exploded since joining the Management group.

I've been reading A LOT of books about eating/losing weight/nutrition, etc and I'd like to run something by you all that I have come across.

There is a school of thought that certain foods (that would be our trigger foods!) - when eaten - set off a whole line of chemical reactions in our bodies that leave us craving more and more. Sugar is one of them. Wheat is another one when mixed with fat - so that would be bread, cakes, biscuits, pizza....you know, all our favourites.

If you look at what Overeaters Anonymous recommend, it's no white stuff - flour, sugar, refined carbs.

The argument goes (not necesarily from OA) that there is a PHYSICAL response that makes us want (strongly crave) these things; one is never enough yet one is too many, if you get what I mean. Some experts don't believe that any food should be off limits because if you eat intutitively, you'll know exactly what your body needs. I'm not sure where I stand right now because I am just trying to get to a place where I can eat "calmly" without all the voices shouting at me in my head and from the food around me.

Regardless of whether there is a strong chemical reaction or not, there has also been much work done on addictive behaviour and once the addict gives into a craving, it sets up a cycle of despair (the addict feels hopeless (for having weakened) and then the whole cycle starts all over again).

I have just emailed one author for permission to reproduce some of their words because they make such sense to me. As soon as I hear back, I will post on here.

I am not giving myself (or any of you) excuses but suffice to say, when you read around the subject, it does look and feel different. I have really started to see myself as an addict and what that means for me; I'm not getting my food decisions right, by any stretch of the imagination, but I am beginning to see where and how I have a choice and just how much back up I need to get through a day. Without adequate back up, I am not able to make good decisions; I see that now. And sometimes, I need back up for the back up.

So that's where I am, right now, with the thorny and painful subject of self-sabotage. I am beginning to understand that it happens as a result of many other things, smaller and less dramatic, adding up, over time, to tip me over the edge into self-sabotage territory.

Take care and hope some of this makes sense. It is very late, I realise! Doh!

Mrs Lxxxxxxx

 

[KD]

Hiya. Don't know whether you saw the thread I did about AD and food addiction? I did it over the school holidays, but it died a death as my threads tend to

You might like a read though. I found it fascinating.

Hang on. I'll see if I can find it.

 

[KD]

http://www.minimins.com/maintenance-diary/20603-karion-rambles-no-2-food-addiction-peptides.html

There's a fair amount to read there

The food addiction thing is towards the end I think.

 

[Mrs Lard]

Thanks, Karion; I shall print it off and read it in the bath. Your posts are FULL, packed full, of wisdom!!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[Heaven can wait]

Hi Mrs Lard
Good to read your post even at this late hour you make so much sense! I have had a c'''p day and can totally identify with what you are saying, its just I couldnt have put it into words as eloquently and clearly.
I totally subscribe to the thepry of addiction and the powerfull reactions certain foods have on both the mind and the physical crave/desire response of the body when we eat these foods.
I have been in this cycle so often and one of the things that I really liked about LL was the 'shut off' of the voices where food was concerned once in abstinance. People would sagely shake thier heads on hearing of my 'heroic' abstinancesaying how much they admired my will power , how they could never do it etc. I really, not modestly, wanted to say its easy in comparison to the horrible self destructive amd totally irrational behaviour I had suffered in the past that had lead me to consume whole boxes of chocolates and other equally stupid junk in a guilty and sick haze.
I always felt that I was being driven to do this ,almost compelled by a circuit in my brain , it wasnt a logical choice, all though I know that I could have stopped , but the failure of not stopping just made the whole thing worse.
I read 'Beyond Chocolate' by the Boss sisters and I could have cried when I saw in print what I had really known for years, that dieting dosent work lonf term , you really do have to 're -learn eating' because what we were doing pre diet didnt work and it sure as hell wont work at the send of a VLCD either.
I think you are taking a very positive step towards changing your eating habits with the research you are doing , I really fear that without a completely different attitude towards eating, nome of us stand a chance of maintaining our hard earned slimmer bodies and it scares the hell out of me I can tell you.
Keeping this weight off will be the biggest challenge, I just hope that I can rise to it.
Mrs L thanks for sharing your thoughts, and I'm going to keep up with this thread as I am very keen to follow where you are leading.

 

[Cerulean]

I'm finding that healthy tasty food is a problem. I cannot stop myself from eating it. The harder the carbs are to digest, the more I eat. the sugars in fruit remind me of how I felt on diets when I broke them - you get this faint taste in your mouth that makes you crave a stronger, more direct hit.

I still maintain that the bingeing problem only really kicked in once I introduced fruit. Alas I am not sure what the answer is - do I stop eating fruit? I had grapes for the first time today - within about 20 minutes I was eating chocolate again. It has to be something to do with the GL.

I cannot remember the last time I felt full now. Every meal I eat ends with a binge now. I finish eating and I panic.I am beginning to think that that back-up I need is a personal shopper and a bodyguard. I can afford neither and have to learn to be both to myself, but finding the time to plan in enough detail to avoid all my holes is nigh on impossible. I am managing to hold my weight steady now and have done for a few weeks but it's such an effort. I'm upping the exercise now to see if I can increase my portions of healthy food to the level where I can eat big healthy meals and trick myself out of feeling deprived and on a diet.

 

[KD]

ML - I talk about the biological addiction around page 6, but I also found dealing with the addictive desire thing very useful too to start with.

I'm not a fan of OA though

 

[KD]

I had really known for years, that dieting dosent work lonf term , you really do have to 're -learn eating' because what we were doing pre diet didnt work and it sure as hell wont work at the send of a VLCD either.

You're right. Diets are diets and maintaining is maintaining Diets don't really profess to be anything more than a method of weight loss. Once you have lost that weight, you have to find a method that works for you to maintain.

I'm not a great fan of what I hear about BC because of something I think they advise which I am totally against, but I haven't read the book myself, just going on what I hear.

Seems that it's a good read though

 

[Heaven can wait]

Well we have all the old hands on the board tonight , all saying roughly the same thing and its stangely comforting to know that no matter how great the achievement we all have the biggest struggle on, re=learning how to 'hack it' in the world of food. I havnt even got to goal yet but struggling I am , becuase I cant stop panicking about going back into the minefield. Some days I think I have got it sussed, after watching people eat for months you learn so much about what's going on with these so called 'naturally slim people', and also about the overweight as well. I decided it was all about having a littel of what you fancy then correcting any over comsumption the next day or Mon to Thur and 'living' i.e consuming on fewer days, but guess what? wrong again! Why do I still find that I have binge behaviour? if no food need be off limits why when I eat some things can I not stop ?
I think Iwill always have problems with certain food groups and may have to accept not being able to have a healthy relationship with them , but this depresses me, as I had really hoped for more in terms of insight into being able to eat anything and everything in moderation.

 

[KD]

Some days I think I have got it sussed, after watching people eat for months you learn so much about what's going on with these so called 'naturally slim people', and also about the overweight as well. I decided it was all about having a littel of what you fancy then correcting any over comsumption the next day or Mon to Thur and 'living' i.e consuming on fewer days, but guess what? wrong again! Why do I still find that I have binge behaviour? if no food need be off limits why when I eat some things can I not stop ?

It does take a lot of head work if you really want to get off the diet wagon. There's more to it than just 'legalising' food (a term I hate BTW). You really have to know why you eat when you aren't hungry. You really have to learn how to stop the chain reaction that goes from desire to action.

Then you need to analyse your every bite. Why you are eating it. What's really going on. You have to cast out all previous beliefs about yourself and start afresh and truly honest.

After you've done that, you can start the real work