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What's all this rubbish about not being able to SS with BMI over 40?

Big H

Silver Member
#1
The reason Sole Source works is because it is complete abstinance. If people were able to work on other diet plans then they wouldn't be in the position they are (i.e a BMI over 40) and wouldn't be looking to do this diet in the first place.

If CD are now saying it's not healthy to Sole Source with a BMI of over 40 then they have been lying to us all for years

Me, personally, if I couldn't have started on SS, I would never have bothered with CD in the first place
 
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Lily

Gold Member
#2
It's proving difficult to find out, Big H. The only CDC who's logged in so far and commented when I asked the question in a different thread has quoted the old rules (as we know and love them!) back at us.

But I keep reading that things have changed. It could just be a few CWPCs making their own interpretation of Head Office guidance - it wouldn't be the first time that's happened.
 

Lily

Gold Member
#3

EllieG

Silver Member
#4
I just restarted this week and my CDC said that it has changed and the new rules are that no one with BMI over 40 can do sole source, they have to start at a higher level - think it was 810 if BMI 40-49.9 and 1000/1200 if 50+ (different for men and women I think).

Something to do with NICE guidelines.
 
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Jayellekay

this time - the last time
#5
I agree. SS is the only reason I picked CD.

Not sure if the NICE guidelines have changed. But I think its a mistake for CD to do this.
 

sumayyah

please try again
#7
i just wish that if cambridge have sent out memo's to change the rules they would let us know on the website so that we can know for sure what exactly they are saying as we all know some cdc's interpet the rules slightly differently
 
#8
in my book it says individuals with a bmi 40 and above may not commence on step 1, but may do following a period of time on higher calorie intake. think it sounds like if you start on another plan after a set period even if your bmi isn't below 40 you can do ss.

between 40-50 its 810
above 50 its 1000 unless you are male then its 1200
 

Emma1904

Working on it
#9
My CDC said she wanted me to start on 1000 as my bmi was 52 so I said ok, did it for less than a week, reduced myself to 810 for a week and then after being having a 24 hour bug where I couldn't face solids so just had my shakes for nutrients I decided to just take myself on Sole Source, as far as my CDC is concerned then I'm still on the 1000 plan she put me on, but I know my body and my state if mind and it was a change I had to make x
 
#10
Does your CDC still think you're on the 1000 plan now Em? Surely not with your great losses! Btw I've made a diary, come and find it :) it's called 40 days until Jamaica. Why did you stop writing in yours? :( xxx
 

Emma1904

Working on it
#11
Went through a bit if a crap and busy time at home! I may start a new one up! I'm not too well today and just don't have the energy to move to get the laptop so I'll log on properly tomorrow and take a look!

I figure she mist know that I'm not! She's not silly! We just haven't really discussed it again! She is a bit forgetful so maybe she thinks I've moved down the plans already! X
 
#12
Hmm, hope everything is good at home for you now? Yeah start up another diary :) hehe maybe she's just forgotten! Hope you're having a good weekend x
 

Cerulean

Silver Member
#13
I started at 40 and a bit but that was a nightmare because I ate before my evening weigh-in as I thought 'It'll give be a nice first week loss!' Without realising the extra 4lbs of evening weight would mean my CDC had to ask for a GP approval. Had no idea it had changed until I got there, but it's all on the CWP website details on each of the steps (except it leaves you to your your CDC to explain the fineprint).

Actually if you look at the main page website it says that under NICE guidelines you musn't SS without medical supervision but I've never been asked for any GP's approval.

So, what do people over 40 who know that SS works for them do?

What I find absolutely hilarious is that CD will still sell you the packs for 810 between 40 and 50 - how are Cambridge or NICE going to make you have an 810 meal a day? If they sell you enough packs to SS for a week, the choice to follow clinical guidelines can only ever be down to you...and whilst I would never recommend going against medical advice, I would balance out by saying that losing 10% of your bodyweight is one of the best things you can do for your health when you have a BMI over 40. Have a chat with your GP by all means to rule out any contraindications and then make your choice.

The only other thing I would say, medically is that I think food abstinence for more than 12-16 weeks can cause some negative side effects for some people and that the research into this is limited and that possibly the new rules are to try to reduce the amount of time people stay in full abstinence to limit these side effects. That's my twopennorth. It's worse for men, the rules have got a lot stricter for them...
 

mrs c

Cambridge Consultant
#14
Right the official guidelines from Cambridge Medical Team have changed recently, anyone with a BMI over 40 is not allowed to SS or SS+.

Attached is a chart to which we have to follow, giving guideline of the different BMI over 40 dependant on if you are male or female. There are reasons for this change to the protocol and if in doubt please discuss it with you Cambridge Weight Plan Consultant who can always if need be put in a medical request to our HO about particular circumstances.

I hope that this answers your queries.

The guideline is there for clients starting the plan with a higher BMI, there is always circumstances where you could be on a lower plan, these need to be discussed with you CWPC. So in some instances yes you could possibly be on SS/SS+ when above BMI 40.
 

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sumayyah

please try again
#15
Right the official guidelines from Cambridge Medical Team have changed recently, anyone with a BMI over 40 is not allowed to SS or SS+.

Attached is a chart to which we have to follow, giving guideline of the different BMI over 40 dependant on if you are male or female. There are reasons for this change to the protocol and if in doubt please discuss it with you Cambridge Weight Plan Consultant who can always if need be put in a medical request to our HO about particular circumstances.

I hope that this answers your queries.

The guideline is there for clients starting the plan with a higher BMI, there is always circumstances where you could be on a lower plan, these need to be discussed with you CWPC. So in some instances yes you could possibly be on SS/SS+ when above BMI 40.
thank you for clearing that up
 

Lily

Gold Member
#16
So, what do people over 40 who know that SS works for them do?

What I find absolutely hilarious is that CD will still sell you the packs for 810 between 40 and 50 - how are Cambridge or NICE going to make you have an 810 meal a day? If they sell you enough packs to SS for a week, the choice to follow clinical guidelines can only ever be down to you...
Quite. And human nature being what it is... ;)

The only other thing I would say, medically is that I think food abstinence for more than 12-16 weeks can cause some negative side effects for some people and that the research into this is limited and that possibly the new rules are to try to reduce the amount of time people stay in full abstinence to limit these side effects. That's my twopennorth.
Well, done properly, no one should ever be SS-ing for more than 12 weeks anyway - you need to move to 810 for week 13 anyway. So I'm not sure that's it. Having said that, I think Cambridge took a wrong turn when they relaxed the rule that you should have an AAM week every fifth week.

Oh well. I know that taking food right out of the equation was the thing that helped me most of all when I first started, as Big H said. And the bigger you are, the more likely it is that you'll want/need to do that.

Anyway - thanks Mrs C for posting about the update to the guidelines, that's really helpful. :)
 

Surfhunny

Laugh in the face of food
#17
The NICE guidelines on Obesity are more focussed on promoting healthy eating, with losses of 500g - 1kg per week. There is no focus on VLCDs there's a quick mention of there use as alternatives. I've added the screen shot of the page that mentions them, just to save people wading through the full guideline paper like I did.

LL insist on having medical supervision on their abstinence programme, their clients have to have monthly check ups by a qualified medical practitioner (GP or nurse), at CD all we have is a letter sent to our GP (if BMI is below 40) informing them we're doing it, and a form requiring a drs sig if BMI above 40.

I personally think CD have gone about this the wrong way, instead of refusing to allow people with BMIs above 40 to do SS, they should insist on closer medical supervision. Patients with high BMIs that are due to have bariatric surgery are required to participate in a medically supervised VLCD leading up to surgery. So it doesn't make sense that CD are effectively closing their doors to people with higher BMIs. A lot of people do SS because they have a lot of weight to lose and the fast losses help keep them going.

As I said though this is only my personal opinion and I have no affiliations to LL in fact I'm a CD girl through and through, I just don't necessarily agree with them 100% of the time.
 

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clairex

Silver Member
#18
My BMI is 51.5...when i met my CDC for the first time last week she said I can start on SS. I know my own body, and I know myself - totally eradicating food is what would be best for me. She was fine with this...when I go back next week to hand my form in and collect all my shakes etc, will she go back on what she said?

:(
 

flab fighter

The fat is melting away!
#20
I started SS with a BMI over 50 it is now very close to 40 does that mean I have to switch to 810 cos I don't wanna do that.
 


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