Why Are Thin People Not Fat?

...........Dieters often don't want to know. They want the fairy tale conclusion at the end of the story (meaning to them...the end of the diet!) Is that fair?...........:D

Very fair - and hit the nail on the head completely! We all want fairy tale answers in loads of areas of our lives.....and weight issues are right up there with the best of them!

I missed the program but had intended to watch it....
 
But surely if you’re hungry you need more calories? Why would you want to be burdened with semi-starvation for the rest of your life? Also wouldn't you end up too thin because of muscle loss from not eating enough or the wrong things? Sorry this probably sounds a bit negative but surely you shouldn't be hungry after maintenance. Shouldn't you be eating more protein and building muscle? I wouldn't suggest consuming masses of food and re-gaining weight. But I worry for anyone who has an obsessive personality taking this too far being too frightened to eat and ending up anorexic. :confused:
 
But surely if you’re hungry you need more calories? Why would you want to be burdened with semi-starvation for the rest of your life? Also wouldn't you end up too thin because of muscle loss from not eating enough or the wrong things? Sorry this probably sounds a bit negative but surely you shouldn't be hungry after maintenance. Shouldn't you be eating more protein and building muscle? I wouldn't suggest consuming masses of food and re-gaining weight. But I worry for anyone who has an obsessive personality taking this too far being too frightened to eat and ending up anorexic. :confused:

No, it doesn't work like that. I'll try to explain. Your body setpoint is determined at a very young age (probably in the womb). That's the size your body wants to be as an adult. You can easily make the setpoint higher...not so easy to reduce it.

Your body will try to get to that setpoint using various hormones...leptin, insulin, ghrelin etc (there's many). Since those hormones control your brain and tell you what to eat and when, if your body wants to put on weight, it will guide you to high calorie foods and make you hungrier. It will also store as much fat as possible.

If your setpoint is less than you are now, you'll have little interest in food. You wont have to control it, or use self discipline, you just want think about it.

If you have a high setpoint because you've become big, or for genetic reasons, and you reduce your weight, your body will try to get back to that former weight by making you want food.

Eating the food causes the problems, but there's a physiological reason why we often eat too much in the first place.

Of course, this can all be overcome from making sure we ignore those signals and eat what we know we should eat..and no more, regardless...

Now...as for me, I eat the correct amount of calories for my age, weight etc. I also exercise. No way will I ever be anorexic ;), but my body has got a higher setpoint. People who have been very overweight, usually have some level of leptin resistance, especially if you are a lady, post menopause, been overweight a long time etc.

So, though we have plenty of leptin to tell our brains what we really need, there is something that stops it being registered in the brain. Can't remember what it is without looking at my notes. I know it's complex though and involves lots of other hormones including insulin resistance, ghrelin etc.

So, I eat well, but my body will tell me I need more, because the leptin etc will try to get me back to my former weight. Not only that, if I over eat, it will store fat in preference to muscle (it's an evolutionary thing).

I eat more protein to avoid hunger, but food stays more interesting because my brain tells me I'm underweight (even though I'm not).

I don't feel starving. It's not where my body is in real terms. Just where it thinks it is. I know that, and I know that logically x amount of calories = maintenance and anything more than that is not needed to keep healthy. So, after that, it's just my brain not receiving a good signal.

I want to stay slim, so I use logic.

This isn't very new research. There's been something like 15,000 studies relating to it. They even made a leptin injection that worked really well, but it's incredibly expensive and other problems associated with it.

It's pretty much an excepted fact as far as I know, but regardless of what your set body weight is, you can overide it by adjusting your eating. Focus is always on that by those in the know, because it's the only way we have at the moment.
 
Thanks for explaining that so well KD!
x

You're welcome, though I know it was long. I find it fascinating.

BTW, was dipping into one of my favourite easy going books last night

BBC Truth About Food
(Highly recommended book BTW...full of great little nuggets)

See even this book had a mention about leptin, ghrelin etc in there. I'll quote a little from the chapter.

"Interestingly, the concentration of ghrelin in the bloodstream is higher after weight loss - a fact that may explain why it is so hard to keep the weight off once you have lost it. Knowing how leptin, ghrelin and other appetite messengers work means we are close to understanding how to lose weight painlessly and successfully."

Yeah, know that's a bit about after the weight loss, but leptin, ghrelin etc can give us weight problems before then.

Not using as an excuse to why we got big in the first place, but just one of the reasons why we often turn to food when not hungry etc. We still have a choice whether to overide the signal or not.
 
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This thread is awesome and so informative.

I watched Gok Wan last night on Channel 4. If he can stay slim after weight loss then we can too. Interestingly, he admitted he still had issues with food for a long time after losing weight. He is my absolute idol.
 
Re the hunger... I really don't want people to worry but I have some things that I found out recently and that I'd like to share.

I have a roomie who has recently confided in me that she's hungry almost all day. Yet she doesn't overeat and she has never been fat or had major weight issues.
She determines for herself when she eats, what she eats etc and doesn't eat when she's hungry at e.g. 10pm; she just goes to bed then. Of course she has blowouts or days where she eats more (at a party or in the holiday) but she monitors her weight and eats a bit less after so it'll get back to where it was.

I think it will be a challenge for me, as I'm now eating carbs again and I seriously wake up starving sick-to-my-stomach hungry some days. I have to tell myself to either go back to sleep (which works fine, if I can manage to get back to sleep for just 30mins and then wake up I'm fine) or drink water / try to ride it out. This will take getting used to and I hope it will get better. Some days are fine, on some days I'm not hungry at all and just force that 2nd CD meal down my throat at the end of the day ;-).

I guess we all have to find a balance and see what foods or foodtypes work best for us. I know I will need to check how I feel in weeks with more carbs vs weeks with more protein etc. so I can find the best balance %wise to not be hungry ;-).

xxx
 
i have a feeling that losing the weight won't be the hardest thing on this diet, maintaining it and learning some self control when faced with delicious food will be the hard thing!

i am getting ready for a lifetime of fighting temptation
 
I think what KD said about set points is interesting, and confirms what I have always thought. You will be what you're supposed to be. Personally I would like to see this information rolled out in schools to educate our children and make them aware they can prevent it. Maybe it would even help prevent bullying over weight issues. Everyone should be equipped with this knowledge before they end up struggling with obesity in later life. I also think that the media have a responsibility to stop shoving size 0, airbrushed, unrealistic images in everyone’s faces and start focusing on being a healthy normal weight :blahblah:
 
The media are a nightmare, you're right... kids grow up with such a skewed idea of what is healthy and attractive that we can't exactly be surprised so many evolve eating disorders as a reaction to that. And kids are not the only vulnerable ones... look at the postings on the forums and you'll see how often women define themselves in terms of how we look. It's basic. But who tells us what's OK and what's not? Rarely our own instincts... the pressure to be slim is all around us, so that even when we are, we don't feel slim ENOUGH.
I wish so much I hadn't pushed my 'set-point' up beyond a healthy level, but I did, and now I have to live with that. And I will. I have loved this thread as it has felt like a big step forward for me, getting the truth about why things may not have worked in the past and what maintenance may be like, even if the truth is hard to take sometimes. I value the honesty that has been shared here, and it makes me feel stronger and more motivated than ever, in spite of the messages that were in the programme which could so easily have been discouraging.
We can do it.
xxx
 
I think what KD said about set points is interesting, and confirms what I have always thought. You will be what you're supposed to be.

Except it's not quite so simple as that :D LOL

Your setpoint might not be the healthiest one. It might have been in the cave men days. You would have outlived the skinnies in times of famine. These days we don't need a high setpoint because food is easily available and we don't need to store so much fat.

We can also push our setpoints up through eating past our natural setpoint. It's very hard to make the set point come down. I hear there are some drugs that can do this, but only work while you are taking them, and not easily available.
 
KD, No I know it’s not as simple as that:rolleyes: But unless you have the knowledge like yourself you won't ever know how to change it. You have lost a massive amount of weight and kept it off. Everyone can lose it with a bit of willpower and determination but it's definitely keeping it off that seems daunting to me. I think you are an inspiration for many of us who really want to get to target and stay there!:D
 
KD, No I know it’s not as simple as that:rolleyes: But unless you have the knowledge like yourself you won't ever know how to change it. You have lost a massive amount of weight and kept it off. Everyone can lose it with a bit of willpower and determination but it's definitely keeping it off that seems daunting to me. I think you are an inspiration for many of us who really want to get to target and stay there!:D

thankyou :) If you want to stay at goal you will :cool: And definitely recommended :D
 
Advice whole heartedly taken from KD the Master of maintenance:D
 
You're welcome, though I know it was long. I find it fascinating.

BTW, was dipping into one of my favourite easy going books last night

BBC Truth About Food
(Highly recommended book BTW...full of great little nuggets)

See even this book had a mention about leptin, ghrelin etc in there. I'll quote a little from the chapter.

"Interestingly, the concentration of ghrelin in the bloodstream is higher after weight loss - a fact that may explain why it is so hard to keep the weight off once you have lost it. Knowing how leptin, ghrelin and other appetite messengers work means we are close to understanding how to lose weight painlessly and successfully."

Hi KD,

I have just ordered this book to learn more.

Thanks for the info contained in this thread. I am like you in that i want to know the ins and outs of everything. I tend to feel like I'm not able to make the best decisions if I'm not as informed as I think I should be...



My two pence on this subject and documentary:

It is slightly discouraging that we have to work harder at being at a healthy weight, but the way I try to look at it is that we each have strengths and weaknesses, and are blessed in different ways.

E.g. some of us find it easier to be patient with kids, others have to try hard...

Some of us are more clever and pick things up quickly, and others have to work a little harder to learn academic stuff. Some of us can fix things easily, some can't...

So, what I'm saying is, if I need to work a little (or a lot harder) to remain healthy and slim, then I will live with that, and I will count my other blessings, if you get what I mean...

I guess it might be a form of acceptance that I will have to devote more effort to staying slim then other people, so I ought to just get on with it...

In the MBA I am studying, academics will research companies that do well just as much, if not more than, companies that do badly. They try to identify aspects that lead to success, and aspects which hinder. Some beneficial aspects are naturally present (such as a nation's positive culture) and some don't come naturally and need to be worked hard at. So, companies around the world will work hard at improving themselves - but each in different ways, depending on what needs there attention... One company's natural weakness, is another company's natural strength - but neither will give up, they will carry on improving themselves and competing with each other to stay profitable (healthy!).

I see myself in the same way. Sorry for the boring and long business analogy - that is how I make sense of it :)

KD, can you recommend any other books on this subject? regarding how the body deals with nutrition, calories and hormones etc? I have a general nutrition book already, and am looking for something that is one step up, if you get what i mean...

This is a great thread BTW :)
 
Hi KD,

I have just ordered this book to learn more.

The book is relatively basic but covers a lot of other topics. I really like it because it knocks a lot of myths on the head :D I've talked more about the leptin here than the book covers.
KD, can you recommend any other books on this subject? regarding how the body deals with nutrition, calories and hormones etc?
The Ketogenic Diet by Lyle McDonald is a good one if you want to get more scientific. Expensive, and huge!

Much that I've learnt I've picked up from all sorts of places. Then checked it over and over again with various sources that I trust. I'm such a cynic, I like to try prove things wrong, until I get really stuck, then accept that perhaps they have a point :D

If you want something Thanks for the info contained in this thread. I am like you in that i want to know the ins and outs of everything. I tend to feel like I'm not able to make the best decisions if I'm not as informed as I think I should be...
Exactly. The thread isn't intended to scare. The scary fact is that the majority of people don't maintain their weight and I think most people know that anyway.

I wanted to know why. I know why psychologically people might find it difficult, but also knew from my own experience that there was something more than that going on.

I'm reasonably intelligent, logical and know exactly what I want. Just couldn't work out why I was constantly drawn to food when I knew I didn't need it, nor really wanted it.

also wanted to know why I could easily put on more fat (besides water) quicker than others. I knew that for a fact. Not underestimating calories etc. But! I could maintain close to what was recommended for my height, age etc.

Now I know, I can deal with it psychologically. Blame my body? No. Understand my body! And at least it's reassured me that I'm not going nuts :D

It is slightly discouraging that we have to work harder at being at a healthy weight, but the way I try to look at it is that we each have strengths and weaknesses, and are blessed in different ways.
Yes, and not always 'in the head' ways. The way I look at it is similar to you, but also that there is something physiological going on. It's not big deal in the grand scheme of things. We still don't have to overeat. Other people have way more problems with health issues. Problems that they can't do anything about without showing the symptoms.

We can overide ours, which makes me feel I am truly blessed :)
 
Watch Paul Mckenna

Its about smaller portion sizes, chewing slowly so every mouth full is chewed 20 times. Also the key is to leave something on the plates.

Its no great secret and its no miracle just a fact.
 
Watch Paul Mckenna

Its about smaller portion sizes, chewing slowly so every mouth full is chewed 20 times. Also the key is to leave something on the plates.

Its no great secret and its no miracle just a fact.

Eek, I would say that P McK is absolutely fine if you haven't had a big weight problem, by probably the worst thing you can do if you have.

With leptin and insulin resistance, with is very common in people who have lost a lot of weight (or intend to lose it), eating to satisfaction, can have disastrous results as the hormones will always want you to get back to your natural (which is now unnatural) body setpoint.

Of course, most intuitive eating systems such as PMcK would advocate loving being in that setpoint.

I know I don't love being 19st (my setpoint), and I know it's not healthy.

Other parts of the system help the emotional side though. I tend to do intuitive eating mixed with what I know about myself and my body, so a whole heap of logic thrown in :D
 
Thanks Mini-Me and KD... still here, and still taking it all in! I love your point Mini that we all have strengths as well as weaknesses, and like the idea of seeing them as blessings. I am happy and grateful to be at this point, to be given a chance to change things properly, and if it is a challenge then that's OK, I am not scared of challenges. But it is about knowing what you want (on a deeper level) and why. And knowing what you may face to achieve your goal. Being prepared for the task ahead I suppose.
And yes KD, we have our health, and that is partly why I am here, as I could see a point where I would not have, and it would have been my own fault entirely. Is it completely nuts to say I am grateful for this challenge, because maybe the things you learn through tackling something that isn't easy are the things you truly learn from. That's what it feels like.
xx
 
Very quick one before I get back to school...sigh :D

You might like to read a message I wrote back in 2006 when I first found out about leptin. It was this that made me delve deeper into the issue

Here

Haven't checked it over since (and in a rush). Might not agree with all of it now I've learnt more

Must go.............

Ack/...I think there's something else somewhere that I've talked about it. Think it's a sticky. Search Leptin on here if you want more reading
 
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