Boundaries

Discussion in 'Lighter Life Forum' started by Juliakno, 7 September 2007 Social URL.

  1. Juliakno

    Juliakno Taking it Day by Day

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    I am in week 5 of development and have to confess that I have found the last couple of weeks a real challenge, and have to admit the occasional lapse. From reading posts here and from talking to my fellow LL'ers in my group I understand that most of us who have got a lot more than 100 days to go, carrying on 100% and finding the motivation and willpower to do so will prove quite a challenge at one point or other.

    I found it quite fascinating to realise how in a very short period of time, habits (however small) can re-establish themselves or even new ones being formed, which all of a sudden become the norm rather than the exception, which then tricked me into thinking that I am still doing this 100%, when in fact I wasn't. In my particular case it started with just the odd splash of milk in my coffee (something I started doing in milk week). In the end it was 1-2 milky coffees (I mean milky…) every day, which of course would mess with the whole process of weightloss whether I'd be sticking to the packs or actually eating something or not. From then on it's the actual little bits and bobs of food that get "just" put in the mouth ("I am certain it won't do much damage as long as it's not carbs"-thinking combined with the "I've been doing this forever" feeling). AND the biggest problem is that I seemed to be getting away with it for a while, which totally leaves a false sense of security and hence the allowances become more regularly. I was on a slippery slope and not even realising it.

    Now my Counsellor, who I think is very good and sensitive to our needs, picked up on that as a group we were all starting to falter a bit, so she decided off topic to have a good chat about boundaries. Boundaries in general but obviously as this is the problem we all share boundaries regarding food in particular. And then the killer question about boundaries regarding our LL journey AND commitment. The way she put it really hit it home, basically she said that when we signed the form we agreed (obviously with her) but moreso with us that we would do this 100%, and she asked in what way our boundaries might have changed from that original agreement, in what way are we redefining the 4 litres and 4 foodpack rules, and also why we feel we struggle with something with for most of us was no problem during foundation. (she obviously said a lot more than that but these are the bits that stuck with me) It really made me think about my commitment to myself.

    Also this led to the realisation that for ALL of us (in my group that is) the biggest killer seemed to be the idea of not knowing for how long we will have to carry on doing this, whereas during foundation it was very easy to concentrate on the final date (now this is not news to most here on MM). My LLC is aware of this shortfall of the programme as well and for a while had already been toying with an idea to make development more focused for us individually. She wondered whether we would find it helpful if she would give each one of us a target date/a boundary we can focus on (based on her experience and on our past weight loss history) at which stage (a bit like with the 100 days) we can decide/review whether we want to carry on or go into management. The idea being that a fixed and "official" date would give us that extra bit of motivation which we seemed to have lost (a bit like a cut of point for an exam I suppose)

    Now for me it was as though a weight was suddenly lifted from my shoulders. I just thought this was such a brilliant idea. On Wednesday she gave us all our target dates. She said that based on my weight loss history I should be able to achieve my weight loss by 10/10,which to me sounded really unachievable, plus I am more focused on my clothes size, (wanting to be a size 12). So we agreed a target of 1 month from 5/9/07. This has really helped me to refocus my efforts, I have been 100% yesterday, even cut out the milk and am still determined today. I believe that I can do 1 month, as much as I believe I can do 1 day (what I couldn't believe anymore was that I can do this for as long as it takes and that got me all messed up).

    I hope that for some of you this might also be something you could do/ask your counsellor about, especially if it is the "this will never end" feeling that is dragging you down. This is a long journey and in order to get there we all might have to take diversions, redefine our route, set new targets along the way, and even maybe readjust our final destination (goal) as we learn more about ourselves and our bodies.
     
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  3. Minnie64

    Minnie64 Think thin

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    Great thread

    What a brilliant thread Julia - I am only on week 7 but that has really got me thinking - thank you
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
     
  4. SafcGirl31

    SafcGirl31 Full Member

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    So many fantastic posts kicking around at the moment!

    LL really need to look at their programme after the 100 days foundation. I know it is difficult to make a plan based on everyones different goals but its so unfocused with people coming and going from class. It would be in their own interest because they lose so many people at that stage.

    My LLC has been great too and is now splitting our developers class into two sessions. One for those who have managed to stay focused since foundation :party0019: and one for those of us who have struggled and strayed:sign0007:. Its optional which class you go to! I also think that it will be helpful to those who have stuck rigourously to the plan not to have those of us who haven't talking about lapsing etc!!

    Its a great idea to be set another target date. I spent a lot of time recently thinking about my goals and it would be easy to stay at this weight as I feel so much changed than I did at 16st6lb but 12st isn't the goal I set out with and I'm determined to get to where I want to be. So Project Healthy BMI is on and I'm committed to another 100 days abstinence, no exceptions. ('No exceptions' is my new mantra!! in foundation it was 'its only food') Will be in maintenance just in time for Christmas!!!!
     
  5. Juliakno

    Juliakno Taking it Day by Day

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    Yes, I agree, LL definitely need to look at this development issue very seriously. At the moment I get the impression it all depends on individual counsellors whether you have a good development experience or whether you feel very much left to your own devices.

    I think the idea of different development groups is also a good one but would need to be very much at the Counsellor's discretion ( what I mean is that LLC shouldn't really advertise this group too much unless an individual would need to swap because they are struggling) People who manage to stay on track are hard done by sometimes by those of us who stray and struggle, and in turn I find it hard to talk about those issues in group in case there are people who are 100% and might get put off by food struggles. Probably people who manage to stay 100% and those who don't need slightly different type of counselling

    I wonder whether despite being a very good idea this could ever become a general LL tool ,as they obviously want to encourage you to stay 100%, and I generally feel that they don't really focus on the idea of the diet being hard at times, all you ever read in their books/magazines is what a breeze this whole experience is...maybe LL should be brave enough to show people who struggled and still suceeded.
     
  6. back on track

    back on track Full Member

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    Juliakno

    Thanks for a great post, I am nearing completion of foundation and have found the last 2 weeks really difficult. I have actually been using the packs for 100 days now but my class doesn't officially finish until 25/9. I still have a way to go but the thought of an unending development class is really getting me down. The way your LLC has handled this is brilliant. When I told my LLC last week that I was really struggling and didn't know what I would do at the end - could I carry on with development or would I go RtoM?? Her suggestion was did I want to start management now :eek:which I didn't find particularly helpful. If I don't finish the foundation course I will feel I have failed, but then I already feel like I am failing cos not doing 100%, a bit like yourself the odd things creep in and you don't notice.:confused:

    I think this may have helped me, I will look at what I can achieve weight loss/weeks and see where this gets me may be its the new focus I need.:)

    Thanks for your post it may help me see the light at the end of the tunnel:party0011:
     
  7. Sez

    Sez has started again!!

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    So we agreed a target of 1 month from 5/9/07. This has really helped me to refocus my efforts, I have been 100% yesterday, even cut out the milk and am still determined today. I believe that I can do 1 month, as much as I believe I can do 1 day (what I couldn't believe anymore was that I can do this for as long as it takes and that got me all messed up).

    I hope that for some of you this might also be something you could do/ask your counsellor about, especially if it is the "this will never end" feeling that is dragging you down. This is a long journey and in order to get there we all might have to take diversions, redefine our route, set new targets along the way, and even maybe readjust our final destination (goal) as we learn more about ourselves and our bodies





    I have read all of this post with a lot of nodding in agreement! I have struggled so much lately, (see my Binge Binge Binge thread). I had begun to think I would not be able to complete this journey, and had almost, just almost, given up. I was stuffing a huge amount of junk food, nothing remotely healthy, and was feeling worse and worse about myself, mentally & physically.

    At the suggestion of many Minimins-ers, I made an appt to see my LLC in private, rather than wait for my group meeting. (I was dreading this, as although she is a fantastic LLC, I was so ashamed of myself...) I neednt have worried, she was very, helpful and interestingly came up, pretty much, with the same answers as your LLC. She said, that perhaps I was focusing too much on the "ultimate" goal, and that I would probably be better served by just focusing on the next week, rather than the last 3 stone. She said, just take of the week, one day at a time, and the weight will take care of itself.

    Well, its only the morning of day 2 since seeing her, but I am feeling much better than I have in a very long time. Developement is a tricky time for those of us who have a very large amount to lose. I suspect I am indeed one of their bigger clients, as I began LL with the need to lose about half of my body weight. I had 10 stone to lose. It seemed an almost insurmountable problem, which was why, I think, I had let it get so out of hand. It was just that I never beleived I could actually do something about it. As she said, I have proven that I can and have done something about it, and now the "voices" are putting new doubts in my mind as to my own ability to lose the weight. Giving me my first sight of my pre-LL photos was a big inspiration too; I wonder if she saved them deliberately to help in a situation such as this?

    I just want to wish everyone here all the best for the rest of this bumpy ride. Although I dont have an end date to aim for, I would love to be in managment by Xmas, so that will be my eventual focus. For now, however, I will be happy to aim for my pop-in on Monday evening!

    Good luck all!
     
  8. silhouettes

    silhouettes Silver Member

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    i am on week 12 of foundation and due to go into developers but have always given myself another 14 week target to focus on and then decide after that what to do. I had never considered it to be an uncertain amount of time as knew it would be at least another 14 weeks. I feel like my foundation week 14 will be half way through my course rather than a completion date.
    sil
     
  9. scotwannabethin

    scotwannabethin Back to the grindstone!!

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    I joined foundation with the others going into week 3 as I started week 1 and I missed out on the first two meetings, due to work and my medical not being processed in time. As a result I am finishing foundation having only done just short of 12 weeks which I have to admit is a little dissapointing as I won't have hit the 3stone mark. I have enjoyed foundation and our group has been fantastic with me leaving most nights with a sore side from laughing too much. I don't know what developers will hold for me, I want to lose another 3-4 stone yet. I am nervous about it but my councellor is fantastic and I did intend setting myself monthly targets. I think having read this thread that I will do just that and try to keep myself focused.
     
  10. Helen

    Helen Full Member

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    Juliakno, your first two paragraphs could have been written by me practically word for word, especially the bit about the coffee....

    I have been struggling lately and sat down the other day to give the whole problem some thought. I came up with an answer similar to your LLC too. I was thinking that I needed to lose another 2.5 to 3 stone and I didnt know how long it would take me. However we are going on a 3 week trip to New Zealand next March and I really want to have finished this by then so I have set myself a date of 26th November at which time I will go into management regardless of what I weigh. This means I will have finished management a couple of weeks before our holiday. I have come to this date by working out an average loss of 3lb a week and I am aware that this may not actually materialise as my weight gets nearer target. I may reassess slightly in the future by counting back 12 weeks from the date we travel but for now having a date target is helping me more than I would have thought possible, especially as its quite a long way away still.

    I have done other things too - taken out all the nice food that had slowly crept back into the house, so eating something isn't remotely gratifying in any way as there is nothing here that I like!

    I have also started a star chart which someone on another thread (can't remember where) suggested. I had ordered myself some supplies for my scrapbooking so am wrapping them up in birthday paper and getting DH and DD to number them randomly so that after a full week of stars I get one as a reward and still have an element of surprise as I don't know which parcel it would be. It has cost me nothing in one respect as I had already ordered the stuff before I had the idea.

    The only variation to the original LL rules is that I am still allowing milky coffee (using the new "the one %) for the time being and hope that my LLC will have the new vanilla packs in on monday so I can try that instead. I am now on day 5 so this is working for me at the moment and I will be aiming to cut the coffee out again over the next week. My scales are going down and I am happy although know I am still bending the rules. Of course its up to me to decide ultimately whether I prefer the coffee or to be at target on 26th November.

    I have also put my LL start photo on the cupboard door along with one my LLC took of me last monday (because I asked her, not because of any significant occasion) which is helping too.

    Oh, and as a result of these measures I reached a personal target today of weighing 1lb less than my husband.

    I hope some of these suggestions help someone else too and check out the thread "highs and lows of development" btw, its excellent and there is loads of support on there.
     
  11. Mrs Lard

    Mrs Lard Silver Member

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    Hello Julia (and everyone else)

    Ahhhh! Development! Your sentiments echo those slightly ahead of you in the calendar stakes. Several of us, in particular - Tiger Girl, Cerulean, Sandra G and me (Mrs Lard) - and with others later on - were really frustrated by Development.

    If you check out our Highs and Lows of Development (started by Tiger Girl) you will see the whole Development debate unfold (and unravel, to be honest). It's a rollercoaster!!

    The best advice I can give you is the same as given to Sarah (Cerulean) by HER LLC and it was this; once you are close to Route to Management (where/how/when!), a good gauge is a BMI of 22.5, or slightly less so that you can allow for some weight gain during RtM (Route to Management) as the glycogen gets restored.

    I also wrote a long thread, I think, about how not to do Development - can't remember excactly. If you can't find it here on Minis, please let me know and I will do a cut and paste as I am so technically challenged.

    I wish you all the best! LL needs to understand that they MUST address how they service Development; it simply is inadequate right now.

    GOOD LUCK!

    Take care.

    Mrs Lxxxxxxxxxxxx
     
  12. Mrs Lard

    Mrs Lard Silver Member

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    PS Great thread, particularly about boundaries and food. Well done and thanks.

    Mrs Lxxxxxxxxxx
     
  13. Juliakno

    Juliakno Taking it Day by Day

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    Thank you all for your comments, there is a lot to take in and think about!
    I read most of the Highs and Lows of Development thread and can only recommend it to anyone who is going through development now. No matter how much we think we can hold this together and motivate ourselves, I think the majority will be faced with issues during the uncertain phase that is called Development, and how not so. The buzz of the 100 days is disappearing fast and we still have this long road of development/management, relearning about food and old habits ahead of us and to find the strength and motivation to do so.

    With a few days under my belt now, I can say that this new target has really helped me to refocus and to stay abstinent and motivated. My boundaries for now are definitely based around those 4 weeks and staying 100% no matter what (I want to honour that commitment I have made with myself and my LLC). I started preplanning things again (like what to bring when going out or how to cope with not being able to join in) something I had sort of given up on, as in my mind there had been the option of joining in by just having a cappuccino or a latte or to sneak a bit of protein (most likely while no one was watching….)

    Now I don't know what will happen at the end of the 4 weeks my counsellor has given me. I am aware of the danger of falling into a "post-100 day " low again, especially if I will not be at the weight/size I have set myself. I am seriously considering of taking it a week at a time after that. As I have not been my current weight (about 12.9 at the moment and starting to be able to wear size 14 clothes) since I was in my early teens, and even though I have set my goal at being a size 12, I don't know whether this will feel right for me (probably still being classed overweight) or whether I would like to take this opportunity to be for once in my life classed a "normal weight" (i.e. BMI of 25 or below) and possibly going down into a size 10, which was something I would have never ever dreamt of/considered/thought possible. and of which I might possibly be quite scared.


    I don't except or plan on losing weight during RtM so the weight at which I will start management will have to be the one I am happy with but which is as yet unknown to me.

    Also I am not sure how much attention to pay to friends and family and their comments. The "you are disappearing" type of comments are increasing lately, and while they are at the moment are still said in a very positive and admiring fashion I can see that change pretty soon. On one hand I can't blame them, as compared to how I was before I must be disappearing, also they might get worried but I am definitely not anywhere near disappearing through a plughole yet (as I was told once). I suppose I just want to get my perception of myself right as I still see myself as fat and don't want to go down the road of not seeing my achievements as stuck in some sort of warped perception of myself. Oh boy, there's always something else to think about isn't there...:argh:
     
  14. SandraEG

    SandraEG Full Member

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    Julia

    Thanks for your valuable post!

    My chatterbox really wants me to go to Starbucks and have something to eat but I'm going to have a shake instead!
     
  15. Just Do It

    Just Do It Full Member

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    Hi Julia,
    I think this is great advice from your counsellor. I'm in week 7 or 8 of development and have found the whole process straight forward. I have been trying to work out why I am not having the same problems as others in development and one of the main things I thought of was that right from the very beginning I saw the whole process mapped out in front of me.

    Foundation, Development (in my mind I imagined 3 to 4 months), Management, to me the 100 days was never the target, the target was the end of the process.

    And I really think that has helped me stay on track. I know others in my group who were solely thinking about the 100 days and what they could eat on day 101 and couldn't carry on past that.

    Best wishes with your new goal date.

    Claire
     
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