Kind of depressing, but important.

Discussion in 'General Weight Loss Discussion' started by KD, 28 January 2007 Social URL.

  1. KD

    KD Gone fishing

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  3. JEM

    JEM Cambridge Diet Counsellor

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    I thought as much :mad: :sigh:
     
  4. KD

    KD Gone fishing

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    Sucks doesn't it.

    So we have two choices. Either get big again, or make sure we maintain however hard.

    I know which one I plan to do
     
  5. DQ

    DQ Queen of the Damned

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    I read bits of it. Was upset to read the bit where it says about not trying to eat intuitively (which is what Paul McKenna suggests basically). Will read it in more detail tomorrow - thanks Karion.
     
  6. KD

    KD Gone fishing

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    I know what you mean, but I know I can't eat intuitively which is one reason I don't follow PMcK. Having said that, as you know...eating intuitively the PmcK way is more complex than just listening to your body and eating accordingly. I just haven't got the patience to go through the whole ringmarole of following his plan and too scared to put weight on before I suss it out.

    So PMck aside for one moment....no I can't eat intuitively...well not most of the time anyway.
     
  7. JEM

    JEM Cambridge Diet Counsellor

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    Reading it has actually made me feel better though - I just thought it was me and that I was crap for finding maintenance hard.

    I've found that since reaching goal, I now have very, very strong urges to binge eat and this is not something I ever did when I was at my heaviest. I'm not used to it and am not at all sure how to deal with it or stop it.

    Anyone else had this problem?

    Jem x
     
  8. KD

    KD Gone fishing

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    You're not alone Jem.

    I have a huge article about this too. I remember posting it on the pink site once. Makes long reading, but is absolutely fascinating.

    I'll hook it out in the next couple of days and post it on this thread. It might explain a few things.
     
  9. nadhak

    nadhak LIGHTER LIFE FOR LIFE

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    WOW - great reading - it explains my yo yo weight problem and why I always got so much fatter after a weight loss programme!
    It makes me more determined to control my weight loss this time & acceptance that I cannot & will never be able to eat like a "Slim Normal person"!
    Tis true helen we are fat people disguised in a slim body!!
     
  10. Isobel1965

    Isobel1965 Gold Member

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    Hmmmm explains a lot!!! Boo!!!

    At least it's not just down to me being a greedy pig! *cough*
     
  11. MadamDotty

    MadamDotty Back again!

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    I'm so glad you posted that Karion and it does make me feel better in a funny kind of way, at least it explains a lot.

    Bad news for me is that I really need to up my exercise, I'm a lazy mare and hate exercise, it's a real chore for me, but I'm not going back up the scales any further, so I need a real re-think of what I'm doing.

    Thanks, I think - LOL
     
  12. KD

    KD Gone fishing

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    It is kind of reassuring in a strange way.

    I have now found the article that I posted on the pink site a long time ago. It is long and I think I'll post it here in chapters.

    If you have the time, I urge to read it. Rather than reading it and thinking 'well...whats the point', I found it gave me answers...facts...made me realise what I was up against so that I could tackle it.

    Bit like going into battle and being warned that there were some damn good soldiers on the other side:eek: I could adjust my weapons accordingly;)
     
  13. KD

    KD Gone fishing

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    Dieting Psychology Snippet 1

    Dieting Psychology Snippet 1

    Very many people engage in dieting. Health professionals could be forgiven for assuming that reducing diets are for fat people. However, this is far from the case.

    Up to one third of men and women in the western world is said to be overweight. Yet twice as many believe that they weigh more than they should. Thinking that one is overweight is more common in normal weight women than in men. Moreover, not only do these normal weight people believe they weigh too much, many also have lives that are in some way restricted by worry about weight.

    In this context, dieting is extremely common and people of all weights are trying to lose weight. In 1980 - 81 Dr Jeffrey and his colleagues from the University of Minnesota surveyed 2000 people living in the town of Minneapolis.

    According to the people they questioned, 72% of the women dieters and 44% of the men had never been overweight. This finding has been replicated in many other studies, namely that many people, women in particular, mistakenly believe themselves to be overweight and at least one in every two women who are NOT overweight has tried dieting.

    The popularity of dieting is fuelled by several factors, the first being a national aversion to fatness. This attitude sets in at a very young age. Schoolchildren in one study showed a stronger aversion to being overweight than to being blind or physically crippled, Even children as young as 8 are restricting their food intake and by age 15 one in three has been on a diet.

    -------
    Sad world we live in, especially the bit I put in bold
     
  14. KD

    KD Gone fishing

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    This is getting more interesting....promise:D

    There is a popular myth that body fat is a “Cinderella substance” which fits on top of the real person underneath, that can be controlled with the right diet and the right degree of willpower.

    Hence, as far as dieting success is concerned, much of what is written in the popular press has an optimistic flavour. Despite poor success rates, even the professionals who proffer diet plans believe that successful dieting is possible - that any one can do it if they try hard enough to follow the advice they are given. In actual fact there is no evidence for this assumption. At best modern weight control programmes can achieve weight losses of around 15 pounds but the proportion of people who maintain their losses for over 5 years is in single figures. Only one in twenty people who join commercial weight control programmes is said to reach goal weight - but not all of these people are clinically obese and there is no information about how many of the successes re-enrol at a later date. Further, half of all dieters put back even more weight than they have lost. Obviously something else is going on.

    Dieters and non diets alike explain the difficulty of losing weight in terms of a concept called “willpower” - successful dieters have it and failed dieters do not. This idea is so popular as an explanation for failure to lose weight that advisors who prescribe weight loss plans for people are puzzled, angry or at least resigned when a person returns to be weighed not having lost an ounce and often having gained weight.

    Researchers have battled long and hard with the question of what distinguishes the successful from the unsuccessful dieter.

    At first they explained differences in success / failure in terms of personality, neuroticism and many other psychological constructs. Now we know that the difference between success and failure cannot be explained by one single phenomenon.
     
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  15. KD

    KD Gone fishing

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    Dieting Psychology tiny Snippet 3

    At the very least , there are some facts about the experience of dieting and its psychology which women with anorexia, bulimia, binge eating or obesity should understand, if they wish to overcome their eating problem or lose weight successfully. This will explain why dieting is so difficult and why when weight is lost most people cannot keep it down.
     
  16. KD

    KD Gone fishing

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    Dieting Psychology Snippet 4

    In addition there is growing evidence that repeated cycles of dieting can make matters even worse, in that people may have to eat less and for longer to lose the same amount of weight. Kelly Brownell has reported on research done by colleagues on the effects of weight cycling in rats, which is like yo yo dieting in humans.

    A group of rats were dieted and then re-fed. In the second cycle of restriction the rats needed 46 days on the same calorie intake to lose the weight they had previously lost in 21 days. It rook them only 14 days on the second occasion to regain as much weight as they had regained previously in 46 days. While we cannot extrapolate from humans to rats and no firm conclusions can be drawn from such human studies as exist it is interesting to note that athletes who have to keep within a weight range from one season to the other complain that it becomes progressively harder to lose the same amount of weight from one season to another.
     
  17. KD

    KD Gone fishing

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    Dieting Psychology tiny Snippet 5

    Hence no diet should be embarked on by anyone of any weight without considerable planning.

    Dieters in several studies have been described as experiencing a changed relationship with food, such as powerful urges to eat or excessive preoccupation with food and feelings of being out of control around food, hence they are naturally vulnerable to breaking their diet in the face of temptation.

    ---------------

    More to come in a mo

     
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  19. KD

    KD Gone fishing

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    Dieting Psychology Snippet 6

    Psychologists called Herman and Polivy at the University of Toronto have underlined the effect of food restriction on willpower in an experiment on dieting and non dieting students who were invited to eat as much ice cream as they liked after being given three different “pre loads” - one glass of milk shake, two milk shakes or nothing at all.

    While the non-dieters behaved as expected, eating less ice cream after one milk shake than none, and even less ice cream after two, the dieters actually ate most ice cream after the biggest “pre load”.

    According to the psychologist the effect of the milk shake was to undermine the dieters resolve, temporarily releasing them from their vows of abstinence. After the milk shake , instead of doing penance for the calorific sin, the dieter persists in sinful indulgence, say the psychologists. After all, if staying on the diet is no longer possible then why not make the most of the situation. This seductive thought process - I may as well be hanged for a sheep as a lamb - is a trap which awaits all dieters. After succumbing to one biscuit you feel such a failure you consume the whole packet. You decide to ditch the diet for the day and start again tomorrow.

    ----
    It's getting better[​IMG]
     
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  20. KD

    KD Gone fishing

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    I know this is a lot of reading and many people will just pass it by, but it really is interesting. I think so anyway [​IMG]

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    But as Herman and Polivy point out, in anticipation of deprivation to come, dieters indulgences “ the night before” can reach legendary proportions. The seeming inability of diets to stop once they have started stem from the Faustian bargain they made with themselves at the start. Included in the loss of normal internal controls are the normal processes involving satiety. Dieters do not eat interminably once their rules are broken but they eat far more than non dieters do.

    By denying themselves food, dieters also make it much more important. Dieters are more likely than nondieters to turn to food when they are emotionally anxious or depressed. This phenomenon is created by dieting itself. At a recent study carried out in London, female volunteers were divided into three groups, the first went on a strict diet, the second a rigorous exercise programme and the third neither dieted nor exercised.

    After 5 weeks the subjects took part in an experiment which assessed their food intake while watching a stressful film. Bowls of sweets and nuts were left beside them and they were told to eat as they liked. Women in the diet group ate far more than the others.
     
  21. KD

    KD Gone fishing

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    Dieting Psychology Snippet 8

    So it seems the effects of reducing food intake for a period of time are powerful.. and what makes these experiments interesting is that the first described the experience of men who are not unduly concerned about food and weight. They experienced feelings and thoughts which are not unlike those experienced by people with anorexia - with their concerns about hoarding food and seeing themselves to be fatter than they were. What is more, the experience of dieting in itself - irrespective of personality and background engendered in the men in the Keys experiment, a concern about food and weight which they had not experienced previously. It is not unfair to assume that dieting will create these effects in all who try it out.

    Aside from the psychological and physiological effects of dieting, when we consider advising people to diet we must bear in mind what we know about they way human beings respond to and comply with any kind of advice, medical and otherwise. Compliance will always be affected by the process itself whether it is simple or complex, the degree of behavioural change needed and whether it fits with the personality and lifestyle of the person. Compliance will be affected by the value of the outcome, and the goals of dieting - weight loss - may contain unrecognised difficulties if achieved. Compliance is also affected by many factors in the dieter herself, including beliefs about his or her personal efficacy, ability to handle lapses, singularity of purpose and ability to muster the right kind of social support. Kelly Brownell has also identified a crucial element influencing the prognosis of dieting behave which he defines as “emotional readiness.” This concept proposes that in order for dieting to be successful one has to go into “training” for the it in much the same way as one would go into training for other projects like climbing a mountain or studying for an exam.
     
  22. KD

    KD Gone fishing

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    Inbetween snippet extra

    On a personal note, I must add that in my opinion, Cambridge is a fantastic diet to get you in the right place so that you never have to diet again. In an ideal world, we wouldn't have to diet, but now we have found the solution to getting the weight off, we need to stay there.

    Never diet again. Get off the weight and then get off that dieting yo-yo.

    Cambridge gives you time and space to sort it out. The stabilisation part gives you the space to work out how you can proceed.

    Please don't make the same mistakes that I have made for so many years. Dieting, putting the weight back on, dieting again infinitum. I have wasted so many years perfecting the art of self destruction. I only wish I knew 30 years ago what I know now.

    Get this weight off, and stay there.

    Make this your last time!

    More proper stuff to come [​IMG]
     
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