Kind of depressing, but important.

[KD]

Dieting Psychology Snippet 9

Yep. Still going on

----
The Set Point Theory

As we have already noted, the agenda underlying most diet plans is that people can move toward a target weight - defined by their height and build, move toward it gradually ( or quickly with additional assistance such as slimming pills or meal plans) and maintain it once it has been achieved - usually on the assumption that pleasure with ones new size will be sufficient to motivate one never to overindulge again. But as we have seen, this process is not easy since the body makes strenuous efforts to resist externally planned changes.

Many scientists believe that people are genetically programmed to maintain their weight within a set-point range which varies from person to person regardless of other similarities like height.

This offers the best explanation for the body’s resistance to weight reduction. Set point theory proposes that being overweight and underweight should be understood in terms of being above or below an individual’s set-point. A very thin woman may appear underweight but may be appropriate for her body, actually being at or above her set point.

Although set point theory is not universally accepted, it is a fact that overweight people defend their fat stores as rigorously as those of normal weight. Also medical science has come up with evidence of a set point mechanism and leptin studies.

 

[KD]

Dieting Psychology Snippet 10

Nearly finished.
--
Other studies in the set point theory suggest that it is influenced by diet and lifestyle, cigarette smoking and levels of exercise. For example regular aerobic exercise promotes a lower set point as long as you keep it up, while diets high in fat and sugar seem to promote a higher set point. And dieting seems to promote a higher set point.

Set points also tend to increase with age which is why it is unrealistic and probably unhealthy to aim to maintain your teenage weight in your 30s and 40s. Because of the influence of the media many people who are preoccupied with dieting have chosen a target weight outside their set point weight range which they unlikely to maintain, and then only through a great deal of suffering .

Although the flavour of this essay in relation to dieting is rather negative, it would be imprudent to suggest that all dieters struggling with the cravings and emotional consequences of dieting, should forthwith reject their diets. Many of these people have become locked in a faulty relationship with food, and many are out of touch with their normal appetite, only able to maintain some semblance of control within the guidelines of any diet plan. They stand in danger of gaining weight quickly if they are not given advice to help them over what may be a lengthy transitional period.

 

[KD]

Dieting Psychology Snippet 11

Alternatively, well meaning magazine articles suggest that chronic dieters should forgo dieting in exchange for “healthy eating” - the implied promise being that if you learn to eat normally again you will lose weight. This is no guarantee, even so, such a strategy is not likely to work immediately. Hefty motivational purpose is created for dieting and even for the binge eating which will make further dieting necessary and possible. Work must be done to help a person let go of the emotional fix they get in respect of dieting and dieting failure which is to be replaced by something invariably less exciting.

Thus, giving up dieting requires complex interventions, based on education, re-evaluating the values and attitudes which create body insecurity in women, reality testing, re-framing food, and helping each individual find a formula for eating and other ways of caring for themselves which are compatible with their lifestyle and physiology. This, in a society which seems ever more devoted to the pursuit of the perfect body, will always pose challenges.

 

[KD]

Especially interesting bit!!

Think I'm a bit out of order with this bit, but I'll post it anyway.

I bet loads of you can relate to this :-

No diet should be embarked on by anyone of any weight without considerable planning.

Dieters in several studies have been described as experiencing a changed relationship with food, such as powerful urges to eat or excessive preoccupation with food and feelings of being out of control around food, hence they are naturally vulnerable to breaking their diet in the face of temptation.

The Emotional Effects of Dieting

The psychological as well as physiological effects of drastically reducing food intake have been well documented by Ancel Keys in a series of much quoted experiments conducted on young healthy male conscientious objectors without a history of weight problems . They participated in these experiments as an alternative to military duties during the Korean war. The men ate normally during the first three months of the experiment while their eating patterns and personalities were studied. They were then put on strict diets where their normal food intake was halved for a period of three months. Afterward they went through a three month rehabilitation period where they were reintroduced to eating normal amounts of food.

What happened suggests that the effects of dieting are far reaching. Food became the main topic of conversation reading and daydreams for almost all of the men. Men who previously had no particular interest in food and cooking became fascinated by cookery and menus. About half way through the semi starvation period 13 of the men expressed an interest in taking up cooking as a career after the experiment was over. Many of the men found it impossible to stick to the diet - they ate secretly on impulse and felt guilty afterwards. Psychologically they became more anxious and prone to feeling depressed , they had difficulty concentrating and they began to withdraw from other people and became less sociable. Two of the men had emotional breakdowns and one cut off the end of his finger apparently hoping that he would be excused from the study. The remained developed a “buddy” system to help them stop cheating.

 

[KD]

Thus endeth today's sermon.

Go in peace but with more determination to never diet again.

 

[MandyB2]

Just read the whole of this karion, much food for thought(forgive the pun), and much appreciated.
Now I ned to go away and re-evaluate

xxxx

 

[minilady]

Heavy reading for a saturday afternoon, but it has answered many questions, and explained to me some of the reasons I have always yo-yo'd before.

It's a little unnerving however, as maintenance is just a throw away for me.

Interesting that smoking was mentioned, as this got me thinking as well. I am a smoker and have tried to give up about as many times as I've dieted:sigh: I normally go about 3-4 months without a cig and then start again, but find for quite a few months I smoke more than I did before!

Very interesting read and so much to think about.

Tracey
x

 

[girlygirl]

On a personal note, I must add that in my opinion, Cambridge is a fantastic diet to get you in the right place so that you never have to diet again. In an ideal world, we wouldn't have to diet, but now we have found the solution to getting the weight off, we need to stay there.

Never diet again. Get off the weight and then get off that dieting yo-yo.

Cambridge gives you time and space to sort it out. The stabilisation part gives you the space to work out how you can proceed.

Please don't make the same mistakes that I have made for so many years. Dieting, putting the weight back on, dieting again infinitum. I have wasted so many years perfecting the art of self destruction. I only wish I knew 30 years ago what I know now.

Get this weight off, and stay there.

Make this your last time!

More proper stuff to come

I agree that, followed correctly and pretty much to the letter, VLCDs do work very efficiently. But each dieter is an individual, with a personal history of problems where food and weight are concerned.

Most problems arise from our complex relationship with food, our physical and emotional hunger as opposed to our 'scientificically determined' nutritional requirements, and our GUILT about eating.

Guilt I truly believe is the killer. It leads us to feast then starve, to say 'that's it, I've blown it now, might as well eat...'. It doesn't take a behavioural psychologist to work out that part of us - a key part, at that - embraces the opportunity to cheat and eat with secret joy. Shortly after overeating, however, the guilt and self-loathing kick in.

We repeat this cycle endlessly, and those VLCD-ing are sometimes more at risk because calories are so low and food consumed so bizarre compared to 'normal' food that we seem able to stick to it for only a short time.

Everyone here has experienced that wondrous HIGH following a very fast initial weight loss - and the relief from hunger offered by ketosis. The pain of regain is the polar opposite of such bliss. Everything in our lives seems to come down to food - what we do or don't eat, how long we can 'suffer' on SS, how long we can stick it out... Then we fall, and start over again. And again.

I know for certain that my 'tolerance' for extra calories has dropped dramatically compared to when I was much heavier - and of course, eating more, but not gorging. I was always way too obsessed with thinness to 'gorge'. Even so I became very heavily overweight.


What the Doctor and his team say about the previously obese burning off calories more slowly than naturally lean people rings absolutely true to me. There may be overweight peeps who can and do maintain with relative ease but I am not one of them.

Check any weight loss board/forum you like. You will find very few longterm maintainers. Sure, they do exist, and God bless 'em, but it might do the rest of us more good to recognise that we really are 'different', and that we need to approach weight control from a realistic perspective.

For me exercise has always been a factor in maintaining. I live the sedentary life most of us now do, and have to make myself 'exercise'. If I could go dancing every night of the week I'd be fine! But that is not possible.

Yet I know women who go to the gym at least three times a week, who run and work out with weights and eat very little most days, and still find it hard to keep their weight down.

We will always have to restrict our food intake in some way. I can't eat 'intuitively', either. Has Paul McKenna every been morbidly obese? He's fantastic and has helped countless peeps to rid themselves of problems but my occasionally overwhelming urge to overeat prevents me relying on 'intuition'. I eat very little because I am terrified of getting fat again. I can't seem to shift these last two stones. I get half a stone off, then regain it.

That's why I decided to give up the dream of getting to goal on SS or 790. My body often felt like it was running on empty, regardless of the nutritional value of the packs. I looked on carbs as poison because one sniff could stimulate my artificially low 'appetite' to an unbearable degree. I did my best but it got progressively harder and harder to stick to the diet.

Once I started to feel weak and depressed it was time to re-evaluate my position.

I suspect that my body might take many weeks if not months to recover from VLCD-ing. As many here often say, regaining is NOT an option. But I still fear that it might happen because I am not 'strong' enough to starve, indefinitely.

Did the Doctor say anything about carb controlled diets/ketosis, and the kind of fat loss one is said to experience, or does he consider calorie intake to be the only significant factor?

 

[Deb G]

I read bits of it. Was upset to read the bit where it says about not trying to eat intuitively (which is what Paul McKenna suggests basically).

This is a quote from Gillian Riley's Book "Eating Less":

MYTH: Eat anything you fancy and trust your body to tell you what it needs. If this worked, there would be none of the many ailments and diseases associated with poor nutrition. This book shows you how to overcome your attraction to the manufactured 'non-foods' that can make you ill.

I've tried it before, and to be honest, my food addiction kicks in and either dictates what to eat, or I over rule my intuition and eat something that is handy/easy/quick etc.

As for the article....hmmm.... whenever you find stuff like this you can always find ten studies to disprove it (and vice versa). I'm setting myself a 3lb leeway when I'm finished. It I get to 3lb above target I'll get it off before it becomes 4lb, then 5lb, then 6lb etc....

At the end of the day, our bodies reflect our lifestyles, so to keep a slim, healthy, fit figure, we have to live slim, healthy, fit lives. That means saying no to donuts EVERY day, and just having one on the odd occasion. No big deal for us if we want to stay slim. Those that succeed are those that make staying slim a priority in their lives.

 

[Deb G]

Most problems arise from our complex relationship with food, our physical and emotional hunger as opposed to our 'scientificically determined' nutritional requirements, and our GUILT about eating.

Guilt I truly believe is the killer. It leads us to feast then starve, to say 'that's it, I've blown it now, might as well eat...'. It doesn't take a behavioural psychologist to work out that part of us - a key part, at that - embraces the opportunity to cheat and eat with secret joy. Shortly after overeating, however, the guilt and self-loathing kick in.

That's why I chose LL over any other diet, because it works on your brain, rather than just your eating. Using CBT and TA (as well as my own research) I have finally got my head around my food addiction (because that is what it is!). This is why for the first time ever, I really feel I can keep this weight off long term. Only time will tell, but I certainly feel that I am in a stronger position this time.

At the end of the day, we can only go back to eating like we did pre-diet, if we're happy to end up like we did pre-diet. We have to make choices about everything we put in our mouths - and only we can do that. But understanding WHY we can make silly choices may help us to deal with them when they arise!

 

[Flab-u-less-Flower]

Great read!

 

[Summerskye]

I've found that since reaching goal, I now have very, very strong urges to binge eat and this is not something I ever did when I was at my heaviest. I'm not used to it and am not at all sure how to deal with it or stop it.

Anyone else had this problem?

Jem x

I haven't yet read the article - and realise that it's probably about time I joined in with this forum as I've been maintaining for over a year now - but ... YES! Me!

So far I've managed to resist over-indulging to a large extent, but am increasingly aware that it's something I would just simply LOVE to do!

 

[rowanx2]

My husband is the type who if he goes on a diet he thinks of nothing but food and rebels, but left to his own devices he cuts down and loses. it's the whole ''diet'' thing that gets to him.

me, on the other hand, I do better by thinking i am on a ''diet''. And i'll be on a ''diet'' for the rest of my life, even when i dont want to lose weight (apart from the times when i will come off my ''diet'', because I still want my episodes of not thinking about this and just succumbing! if i cant have them then i wont continue!) I'm going to have watch what I eat and what i weigh FOREVER!

i've always said that even when we all lose our weight we are always prone to putting it back on easily, as that is how we are made - it's in us to get big. We are the chosen ones!!!

the amount of extra fat cells we make is unbelieveable, i read an article which said they all just waiting there to be filled up again - thats pretty depressing, but it's a fact we can't ignore.

I liken losing weight to saving up money and buying something great at the end.

We wouldnt save up our hard earned money for a year then buy something and take a hammer to it and smash it up, so we don't really want to do this and then ruin it all at the end as it took so long to save up for. We might knock it a few times, but we'd fix it.

 

[angie-bum]

I've read this thread as I am thinking about how I will maintain my losses in the long run. This thread has just made me re-remember that the weight loss is not the hard bit...it's the keeping it off when your body is trying to fight to get back to where it was. Thankyou for this timely reminder

 

[izmirka]

Okay...this is long, and I've already got another long article somewhere saying the same sort of stuff, but it's really worth the read if you're up to it
Some Answers About Genes, Environment, Obesity and Maintenance - 3 Fat Chicks on a Diet Weight Loss Community Living Maintenance

great... NOW I'm depressed.... Eh, I'm going for a cigarette...

 

[Mrs Lard]

Hello KD

Thanks for posting this really helpful information, oooh, quite a while ago! I'm ready to get my head around maintenance - proper maintenance and this has helped.

Thanks for your lovely message the last time I visited MiniMins; I really did appreciate that!

I'm going to have a good look around this section. Ah, Minis, how I have missed you!!

Mrs Lard xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[KD]

Blimey Mrs L! Good to see you here again.

Wow, this is an old thread, and I've written and learnt a fair amount more about the subject since. Think more about it is a sticky on the LL forum? Subject heading something about body set point.

I find it fascinating and not quite as depressing as I originally thought

Keep in contact here Mrs L. Miss you around the board

 

[Isis]

Hello KD

Thanks for posting this really helpful information, oooh, quite a while ago! I'm ready to get my head around maintenance - proper maintenance and this has helped.

Thanks for your lovely message the last time I visited MiniMins; I really did appreciate that!

I'm going to have a good look around this section. Ah, Minis, how I have missed you!!

Mrs Lard xxxxxxxxxxxx

Hello Mrs Lard

 

[Mrs Lard]

Hello hello again

Yep, definitely going to make the effort to post again. And catch up. (And get familiar with all the essentials of posting a message!!! LOL!)

Thanks for the warm welcome.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[Angela83]

That is so interesting, really thought provoking stuff. I find human biology amazing and will be making notes of things in this post.