Lost & Found... Map Gone AWOL!

[Katycakes]

So...

unless we want to feel worse for some reason, and that reason will be to benefit ourselves in some way.

That's more it for me, KD. I can see that this is very messed up, maybe seeing it so starkly will help me to break the pattern. I have no idea what is in it for me, but accept that sure, on some level i want to be punished, want to feel s**t etc. I believe I deserve it.

A friend (?!!) once said I had 'imposter syndrome' and the more successful I was the more messed up I would be. Not sure about that, but there is fear that I will be 'found out' somehow, that my career will be whisked away from me because I don't deserve it and people will see the truth, that I was useless all along. I know it's only a PART of my head that believes this, a buried part... but those are the bits that are harder to find & challenge I think. And yes, what it boils down to is that I am the saddo who gets a kick from making myself ashamed & unhappy. Sheesh.

It is a biggie to see it like this. There is a martyr-like kick in self-punishing, which of course is not so far from selfishness anyway. I have never admired the 'martyr' model of womanhood, yet in spite of my efforts to avoid it I am doing very well at it after all.

Rambling a bit, but putting a few pieces together.

Jumping off the track, I agree totally with KD re: suicide. I think suicide attempts can be about spite and revenge, as Bess says, but these attempts are never meant to succeed, are just grand gestures to punish others. And of course there would be a great satisfaction in revenge for someone who was full of hate and blame. BUT successful suicides - I have known two. In each case, the person just didn't want to be there any more. Just couldn't see a way forward. Other people almost vanish at that point, they just are not vivid enough in the fog of that illness to make a difference, which is terribly sad, but true I think. And not a reason for those people left behind to punish themselves either - the choice was made by the suicide, no other person. And if life is unbearable, truly so, then maybe the kindest thing you can do, if you have no strength left to go forward and hope left, is to choose an end to it.

Scary. Point made, and taken.

xxx

 

[Katycakes]

I have this whole 'terrified of putting the weight back on' thing going on, and so I am really wanting to learn absolutely everything I can to prevent anything of the sort happening, from my own experiences and taken other's learning curves into the mix too.

I've always thought self sabotage existed, but after reading KD's posts am re-thinking this

AlexM, I am the same, that's the scary bit - terrified of putting weight back on. At moment am settled at 11 2ish, which is a 4lb gain from where I was settled (& happy) before. Not happy with that, but petrified of letting it go any further. I know this fear is messing with my head. And self-sabotage DOES exist, I am sure of that, but what KDs posts raise is that that self-sabotage is in some way what we want, what we choose, something that 'benefits' us. In my case I think to prove that I couldn't do it after all, that i deserved not to succeed, etc. All rubbish. NOT buying into that stuff any more.

You don't let anyone down, nor yourself. Self blame? Part of the problem?

Bess, this is very much me. My life is all about trying not to let others down, having learned very early on that by being myself I was letting down the one person I needed/loved most. I cannot NOT be me, I just can't, and I cannot be a martyr, so all that is left is a long trail of tears, being the 'wrong' person, and a fear that I will let everyone down. All this was 'learned' so long ago, and I can see it is time to let go and move on. And that maybe in life there are some people you cannot really completely please, and cannot make them love you as you'd like to be loved... and that's OK. Not their fault, or yours. Just the way it is.

But this mad drive to make everyone else in the whole entire world love/like/be proud of me... that is just plain crazy. (And how could ANYONE do that, so you HAVE to fail, and if you fail, then it was right all along, you were never good enough to begin with... self-punish, self-harm, ad infinitum)

You lot... who needs therapy with minis? Big chunks of understanding shifting around in my rusty old brain.

And Lizz... your post was revelatory too, it really is that simple. Big thank yous, all of you. You are the best.

Food wise, yesterday:

banana, orange juice, plain yog & berries
2 cheese & lettuce wraps, small iced sponge, latte
meal out: italian starter - courgette, pepper, olives, salad
starter-size ravioli with wild mushroom & riccotta
2 x orange juices at reception

High on cals but mindful eating... the food was at Jamie Oliver's restaurant in bath, YUM. I have another meal out tonight, eek. But feel OK, I am NOT in binge zone. I don't want to go back to that place ever again.

Better go do some work, will check in later.


xxx

 

[Julie Williams]

You will always be Super Katy, cant wait to see you modeling the outfit though!!!!!!xxxx

 

[Katycakes]

Don't hold your breath, Julie!!!

Big hugs, hope all is going well for you hon.

xxx

 

[KD]

I believe I deserve it.

Well, very glad to hear that you're not buying into that stuff any more :clap:

But just in case you don't really believe you can cast it away, ask yourself this

Is it a fact?
Why do you believe you deserve it?
Would others agree with you?
Is there anything to contradict this?
Get a good solicitor in your head to plead why you are not guilty of what you believe

Really challenge this belief because belief always precedes action. If you truly believe it, you will live it. Gosh, that sounds all religiousy It is so very true though.

 

[herewego]

Katy - You are such an inspiration!! I have read through your whole thread (that took some time, hence I'm still in PJs at midday ) and you have such determination.

I can relate to a lot of the head stuff you are going through - I've been through it many times and no doubt will continue to fight my inner gremlins for some time yet. The key I guess is to not give up, to keep going and to keep learning. There are so many good discussions in this thread you could fill a book with it!

Oh - and the imposter syndrome struck a chord with me as well. I often feel like I'm playing at being a grown up and feel a fraud at work. I sometimes sit in meetings and can't believe that other people listen to the cr*p I spout, yet they all seem to think I'm a reall asset to the team etc. If only they knew . I think a lot of us feel that way and again it's our head messing us up.

My grandmother said to me once that our generation think too much and don't do enough. We surround ourselves with gadgets to make life easier and self help books to sort out our messy minds, whereas my gran would simply keep busy and let things work themselves out. I'm not sure whether there is truth in that or whether previous generations were just as screwed up but in different ways, but I do think she had a point.

Take Care & stay away from electrical equipment LOL!

 

[KD]

Imposter Syndrome is a weird one isn't it. I've mentioned it a few times elsewhere after my deputy boss called me into the office to say that she believed I had it and that I really needed some help

Drat! Another syndrome to contend with. Meanwhile, I continue to go into school planning how I will fake it until I make it. 30 odd years of faking it at that school and I've fooled them into believing I know what I'm doing

 

[KD]

Oh and another thing Since imposter syndrome is probably a psychological thing, rather than a physiological thing, then there must be a benefit in having it :clap:

And I guess I've found it!!!!

If you prefer to think that you are a fake, then it's not so hard to accept it if you fail. You don't disappoint yourself, or anyone else....after all, you can't do it really anyway and are only pretending

In my case this is different, because I am a fake

 

[Bess]

I wrote you such a long reply Katy a few hours ago and as usual the computer logged me out! Damn thing.

However, it seems that everyone else has said what I did - well nearly, so I shan't try again.
The 'imposter' sydrome. Mentioned by so many and felt by me too, bet Barack Obama feels the same sometimes too and he really does have to do a lot to live up to our expectations of him. So feeling that is nice and normal then.
I'm going to do this in bits so it doesn't disappear again.

 

[Bess]

Bess, this is very much me. My life is all about trying not to let others down, having learned very early on that by being myself I was letting down the one person I needed/loved most. I cannot NOT be me, I just can't, and I cannot be a martyr, so all that is left is a long trail of tears, being the 'wrong' person, and a fear that I will let everyone down. All this was 'learned' so long ago, and I can see it is time to let go and move on. And that maybe in life there are some people you cannot really completely please, and cannot make them love you as you'd like to be loved... and that's OK. Not their fault, or yours. Just the way it is.

xxx

Exactly.......and it's not just you love, I've been there too. I'm just a little bit further down the 'put it away from me' path. You are not responsible for anyone else's happiness, don't even try to be. Practise leaving these feelings behind, you'll get better and better at it. Small steps remember..... and when you fall into the trap again (and we do) it'll be easier to see it for what it is and climb straight back out. Trust me Katy, I know what I'm talking about with this.

 

[Bess]

Desiderata Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence.
As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant; they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals;
and everywhere life is full of heroism.
Be yourself.
Especially, do not feign affection.
Neither be critical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass.
Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself.
You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be,
and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.
With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy.



And here it is for you, mushy, sentimental, perhaps and old fashioned now. But I like it and it's one of the things that helps me.

Love, Bess x

 

[Isis]

Well, very glad to hear that you're not buying into that stuff any more :clap:

But just in case you don't really believe you can cast it away, ask yourself this

Is it a fact?
Why do you believe you deserve it?
Would others agree with you?
Is there anything to contradict this?
Get a good solicitor in your head to plead why you are not guilty of what you believe

Really challenge this belief because belief always precedes action. If you truly believe it, you will live it. Gosh, that sounds all religiousy It is so very true though.

Ohhhh so bloody true KD !!!!

 

[Bess]

Oh - and the imposter syndrome struck a chord with me as well. I often feel like I'm playing at being a grown up and feel a fraud at work. I sometimes sit in meetings and can't believe that other people listen to the cr*p I spout, yet they all seem to think I'm a reall asset to the team etc. If only they knew . I think a lot of us feel that way and again it's our head messing us up.

My grandmother said to me once that our generation think too much and don't do enough. We surround ourselves with gadgets to make life easier and self help books to sort out our messy minds, whereas my gran would simply keep busy and let things work themselves out. I'm not sure whether there is truth in that or whether previous generations were just as screwed up but in different ways, but I do think she had a point.

Take Care & stay away from electrical equipment LOL!

Me too Alli, me too.
Wise Grandma there - just like mine. I loved her so dearly and she me. The one stable unchanging dependable person in my young life. She died when I was 24, and nearly 30 years on I still miss her. She was born in 1887. An amazing woman, and had a fascinating life. Sorry rambling a bit............

 

[Katycakes]

KD...

Is it a fact? No... I don't think so.

Why do you believe you deserve it? Because at a very early age I learned that i wasn't good enough if I dared to step outside the box. Basically, if I dared to be me. It was never spoken, but made clear in a million different ways, from childhood right thru to present. And by someone whose love I craved & whose view I valued, someone I always wanted to please and never, ever could. Ironically, things are a little better this year... we need each other, and that brings tolerance of a sort, though still I get 'punished' for imaginary failings and for basically not being the person they wished me to be. Time to step back, let go a little of the hurt.

Would others agree with you? Apart from that one person, no. I don't know of anyone else who has this view except this person... and myself.

Is there anything to contradict this? It seems pretty clear really.

Get a good solicitor in your head to plead why you are not guilty of what you believe I am trying. On some level, have been trying since I was a teenager, when I made a choice to follow my own road rather than the one set out for me. It has been a struggle always, and much of this has come to a head in last 2 years since death of my dad, who would have made a brilliant solicitor on my behalf... he believed in me, always, no matter what. So... trying harder this last 2 years, and harder this year since starting CD... the CD thing came at same time as a conscious effort to try to believe I couldn't change the person who was hurting me. Both attempts at self-preservation (previous tactics, binge-eating, were clearly not helping & driving me to despair).

It is all tied up together in my head.

I KNOW I need to step back emotionally. But sometimes the past takes over and I go onto default mode... it is such a messed up pattern yet still we go on repeating it. I do the most bizarre things so as not to feel guilty. I think I may have been born feeling guilty, learned that lesson very well. If someone sneezes in the next county, it is probably my fault. And I'll feel bad about it. Very self-centred in a way, to think everything is your fault. Very childish.

And childish is exactly what I am when I binge... WANT those biscuits (nasty ones from childhood days). Want them now. Will have them, no matter what anyone says. Toys & pram. Tantrum. Selfish, selfish, selfish.

Not sure what this adds up to... it makes things clearer to me, but so hard to stay involved with this person yet not get wound up and squashed down on a daily basis. It is all in how I react, in what I believe, so... need to change that core belief? That this person was wrong? That I am wrong? All along?

What might happen then?

xxx

 

[Kira]

Gosh! It's been busy on this thread!! I am still digesting it all!

 

[Katycakes]

Alli, thanks for posting. The thought of you struggling through this whole thread... you need a medal for endurance! The good stuff is the insight provided by wise minis peeps, I just provide the questions/dilemmas/crashes. But you are right, there is so much to learn... I think maybe I need to go back to the start and read over it all, because it might show me what I have lost - or what I have a less firm grip on, anyway.

Sounds like there are a few of us 'imposters' about, which makes me feel a little better!!!

And your gran's words of wisdom... this is very much what I believe too. Bet if I was walking down to the village to get water from the well, or growing turnips to feed the family thru the winter, or boiling the family washing all day long... well, that would shut me up. The hard work just to survive... it left little room for soul-searching. And back then I wouldn't have had a choice really to have a career, so many of my 'problems' would not have arisen.

I don't really wish for those days, but perhaps a modern version of it, with hard physical work as well as mental work. There is peace for the soul in manual work, and in being in the countryside - I lose sight of that sometimes. Seems like a throwaway comment, but one that has got me thinking Alli.

Thank you.

xxx

 

[Katycakes]

Kira, better take some Rennies quick... nobody can digest this lot without instant heartburn! Lol!

xxx

 

[Katycakes]

OK, & Bess... your posts have made me cry. You do seem to know very intuitively how I feel, and why I act in the ways I do, and what might help. I love Desiderata too. My lovely sister-out-law gave me a print out of this after Dad died, and I have helpfully lost it. I will print out a copy and get it onto my pinboard.

Maybe I am slushy & old fashioned myself, but this speaks to me.

Big hugs Bess. Won't let me rep you, still, but want you to know how much you are helping hon.

xxx

 

[Katycakes]

OK... will have to head off again shortly, business dinner, & very busy tomorrow so may just check in early on before I set off.

Today, not much work to be done... easy and stress free. Then had time for look around Bath. Fab city, full of people dressed like Jane Austen or wearing tricorne hats. Seriously. there is some sort of convention going on here today!

Have bought some dresses...
a/ 1940s vintage black crepe dress £25 at antique market
b/ 1950s style black & white print dress, full skirt, boat neck, Laura Ashley
c/ 1960s style purple cord pinafore/shift dress, Laura Ashley.
The Laura Ashley ones were both 25% off, bargain! Both size 12s. The black 50s style one is very snug, that will have to change. But they all look lovely...

Also made a start on Xmas shopping, & all in just an hour & a half! Great place.

Feel hopeful.

Brekky today was porridge, 0% yog, tomato juice, scrambled egg.
lunch was skinny latte & CD bar
dinner will be late but lavish, I am a little wary of this but will just make best choices I can. Hopefully can avoid pud & have coffee instead.

xxx

 

[Bess]

There is peace for the soul in manual work, and in being in the countryside -
xxx

Oh yes definately. Aren't we lucky? I'd wither up in the town. Think it might be a genetic thing.....I wouldn't be 'me' if I didn't live deep in the countryside.

And peace for the soul in music, art, literature......Do you know 'The Land' by Vita Sackville West? Wonderful.