NHS Direct on Ketosis

Discussion in 'Lipotrim Forum' started by scazman, 17 June 2008 Social URL.

  1. scazman

    scazman Full Member

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    One of my colleagues was talking about being on some sort of low carb diet today and observed that she could only stay on it for 2 weeks as otherwise there was a risk of developing ketosis. I faked ignorance and asked her what was wrong with that? She replied that ketosis screws up your liver and kidneys. I therefore did some research on t'internet and found the following article on NHS Direct. It is rather worrying.

    'Ketosis is a process in which your body converts fats into energy. During the conversion, ketones are produced as a by-product. Ketones can give your breath a sweet, fruity smell that may be mistaken for alcohol.
    Your body normally uses glucose to meet its energy needs. Glucose comes from the carbohydrate in your diet. A healthy, balanced diet should provide you with all the glucose your body needs, so that ketosis does not take place. However, if your body does not have enough glucose, perhaps because your diet is very low in carbohydrates or you are starving yourself, it will begin ketosis to obtain energy from its stored fats instead. As a result of this, the ketone levels in your blood will rise. Prolonged severe ketosis can be dangerous as it can change the acidity of your blood, which may eventually lead to serious damage to your liver and kidneys.
    Recently, diets that recommend you eat lots of protein and very little carbohydrate have become popular. These high protein-low carbohydrate diets - known as ketogenic diets - are intended to work by forcing your body to begin ketosis to burn fats and create quick weight loss. Because long periods of ketosis can be dangerous to your kidneys and liver, ketogenic diets are never recommended by health professionals for more than short-term use, typically no longer than 14 days. Many nutritionists warn their patients - especially women in the early stages of pregnancy - against following them at all.'

    Having read that I carried on my research and found another article from a dieting website that countered that argument:

    'Why do some people think ketosis is a bad thing?
    There is an assumption that if a body is burning a lot of fat for energy, it must not be getting "enough" glucose. However, there is no indication, from studying people on reduced carbohydrate diets, that this is the case (though there is usually a short period of adjustment -- less than a week, in most cases). Although it's true that our bodies can't break fat down into glucose (though, interestingly, they easily use glucose to make fat), our bodies can convert some of the protein we eat into glucose. Indeed, this works well for people who don't tolerate a lot of sugar, because this conversion happens slowly so it doesn't spike blood glucose.

    A dangerous condition called ketoacidosis can develop in those with type 1 diabetes, and it is sometimes confused with normal ketosis. The body usually avoids this state by producing insulin, but people with type 1 diabetes are unable to produce insulin. Even most people with type 2 diabetes who inject insulin usually produce enough insulin of their own to prevent ketoacidosis.'

    Now I'm more confused than ever!!!

    As someone who's been on this diet for nearly two months I'd like to think that once I'm thin I won't require a liver transplant and thus I hope the second arguement is more credible!!!

    Discuss!!!
     
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  3. oxoxallyoxox

    oxoxallyoxox Full Member

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    Scary. My mother in law was constantly telling me ketosis is bad for you.

    However from my understanding of it - its only dangerous if you have diabeties....

    There is a lot of contradictory information out there and the majority of it is against ketosis.

    However Lipotrim is done through your gp or pharmacist who are healthcare proffessionals!
     
  4. rainbow brite

    rainbow brite ~Starsprinkled~

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    That is rather worrying however I'm inclined to find solace in the fact that LT has been dished out by GP's for a good few years and we're all being monitored by our pharmacists (albeit not particularly closely as seems to be the case with a lot of us). I'm not sure but I find it hard to believe that something would be sold in NHS pharmacies if it was that detrimental to a person's health. Just my two cents x
     
  5. missyd

    missyd Gold Member

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    thats the way i think to LT was introduced by gp's and then was broadened to pharmacists they wouldnt do a diet that was bad for your health they are health professionals.......... right???????? x
     
  6. thefutureisbright

    thefutureisbright Banned

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    Hi,

    I think if you feel fine on LT and you drink plenty of water then you should not have any bad health as a result.

    I think many people are anti-ketosis due to the atkins diet which promotes a lot of meat and saturated fat which isnt good for us.

    Being overweight isnt healthy - so loosing the weight can only be a good thing.

    xox
     
  7. Kitteh

    Kitteh Resident geek

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    NHS Direct.. not always 100% right.. and maybe slightly biast..

    x x
     
  8. Sheep

    Sheep on the up lol

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    if im right (lol not always) + ( i could be wrong lol ) LT was made in 1989 was used by hospitals for larger people, then gps got hold of it now the chemist, if it was that bad would it still be going ? also slimming tablets hold a risk, 1 big one i read was heart atacks wonder why alot of them was banned in britan but still going strong in america ?

    im not worried about LT at all :D
     
  9. scazman

    scazman Full Member

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    Words of wisdom! I'm sure that the benefits of losing 10 stone will outweigh any other considerations!!!

    And make a few bucks from LT I'm sure!!!
     
  10. Mini

    Mini Administrator Staff Member

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    Source:
    House of Commons - Public Accounts - Minutes of Evidence

    The Food Education Society Report.

    The Food Education Society


    Reports on tasks for scientific cooperation




    VLCD


    Source:
    http://www.geocities.com/jmarkscam/


    The above is very good information. Hope that helps.
     
  11. misscheeky

    misscheeky Gold Member

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    thanks for posting that mini. I dont think it will do any harm. Im on cd and its been sold all over the world for years so surely if it was bad people wouldnt be allowed buy it
     
  12. scazman

    scazman Full Member

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    Yes, and imagine the cost the NHS if VLCD's were officially endorsed and made available to us fatties by prescription? That's be great though!
     
  13. Mini

    Mini Administrator Staff Member

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    As far as I know some people can get a prescription for Lipotrim.

    I think it is either done through the hospital or a GP.:confused:

    Also, I have known a couple of members who were part of their research programme and did not have to pay.

    You could enquire.


    If you live in England, Wales or Scotland contact us at:


    Howard Foundation Research Ltd
    Downing Park, Station Road, Swaffham Bulbeck, Cambridgeshire CB5 0NB



    TEL: 0800 413735
    FAX: 01223 812900
    EMAIL: [email protected]
    EMAIL: [email protected]


    If you live in Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland contact us at:



    Lipotrim Ireland
    Unit 3 Enterprise Centre, Ballinalee Road, Co. Longford


    TEL: 00353 (0)43 31969
    FAX: 00353 (0)43 31985
    EMAIL: [email protected]


    For information on pharmacies participating in the Lipotrim Programme call FREEPHONE 0800 413735
    Welcome to the Lipotrim Website
     
  14. cuddlyfairy

    cuddlyfairy Gold Member

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    I questioned this when I first started as my son's friend is diabetic and his mum dreads the presence of ketones.

    From what I gather, the ketones diabetics get put them in ketoacitosis (excuse spelling!) which is not good for them. Some teenage girl diabetics get themselves into it deliberately so they can lose weight but it is what does all the damage.

    We go into ketosis which is different but we do need to drink plenty of water to keep the blighters flushed out.

    I'm no expert so apologies if any of that is incorrect, it's what I can remember from what a nurse on LT told me.

    x
     
  15. Taronga Leela

    Taronga Leela Full Member

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    Hmmm, I haven't read all the replies but I do think this particular comment is rubbish

    'our bodies can convert some of the protein we eat into glucose'

    I don't think this is true, as protien is made from amino acid chains, but carbohydrate, which we all know consists of simple carbohydrate polymers.
     
  16. Kira

    Kira Gold Member

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    Like NursBex I haven't read all the replies also I am on CD which also uses ketotis for weight loss. However, re the original post and the NHS direct article - read what is says - it refers to ketosis being dangerous if one is in ketosis for a "long" period. To me that implies being on a protein only or low carb or vlcd meal replacement diet for months and months and months without medical supervision. I don't know about LT but on I beleive CD a counsellor would be reluctant to someone to stay on sole source for months and months without having some kind of medical supervision. It is another article on ketosis at a very high level which isn't quite accurate.
     
  17. rainbow brite

    rainbow brite ~Starsprinkled~

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    I learned about this the other day. Apparently it is a problem that is becoming worse all the time and has now been given a name - Diabulimia. I saw a programme the other day featuring a young woman who had been missing her insulin to lose weight and had ended up blind in one eye. :eek:
     
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  19. cuddlyfairy

    cuddlyfairy Gold Member

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    I saw that too. She isn't the first to lose her sight that way and, unfortunately, won't be the last!

    My son's friend is really sensible but has found other diabetics encourage him to do silly things to let him eat all the sweets and chocolate he wants. Fortunately he doesn't.

    x
     
  20. rainbow brite

    rainbow brite ~Starsprinkled~

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    That is frightening :(:eek:
     
  21. nictastic

    nictastic Says it as it is!!!

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    Its not keotosis that is dangerous.... its ketoacidosis. Many people get confussed
     
  22. nictastic

    nictastic Says it as it is!!!

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    Found this to it lists all the conditions that docotrs have recommended a keotonic diet in various medical conditions
    Description
    A ketogenic diet includes foods high in protein and/or fat, and heavily restricts carbohydrate intake. As fats and/or protein become the body's primary source of metabolic energy, a state of ketosis occurs.

    [edit] Medical applications and research


    [edit] Epilepsy

    Main article: Ketogenic diet
    The Ketogenic Diet for Epilepsy is the most established ketogenic diet prescribed to treat a specific medical condition. It is a very high fat ketogenic diet prescribed primarily to pediatric Epilepsy patients.

    [edit] Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis

    Main article: Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis
    Suggesting that a calorically dense diet may slow ALS, a ketogenic diet in the ALS mouse model has been shown to slow the progress of disease.[1] Additional research is being conducted in adult humans.[2]

    [edit] Autism

    • Autism - There is some evidence that a ketogenic diet may be used to treat autistic behavior as an additional or alternative therapy.[3]
    [edit] Bipolar disorder




    Main article: Treatment of bipolar disorder
    [edit] Type 2 diabetes

    • The low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet (LCKD) may be effective for improving glycemia and reducing medications in patients with type 2 diabetes.[6]
    [edit] Cancer

    Plus....Hope Hospital in Manchester run an LT program on perscription (FREE) ...again NHS hospital ...they wouldnt be able to do it if it was dangerous. Obviously there are some conditions / illness it would not be able to be used under; hence the medical questonnaire xxx:D
     
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