Taz's diary - Need to do this!
- Thread starter Taz
- Start date
mod-karen79
rainbows holiday buddy :)
my boyfriend saw someone jump off a railway bridge when he was about 8. his mum turned him away and told him some bizarre reason why the man had jumped from the bridge!
Gemstone
Here for the Journey
I understand what you are saying Karen cos I work with kids who are quite damaged. There are a lot of undiagnosed conditions (eg mental health issues) and I often have to deal with young people who self-harm. There have been attempted suicides too and reckless behaviour stemming from a lack of self worth.
I do, however understand what Taz is saying too. Sometimes suicides are pre-meditated, even stage managed (if I can use a theatrical term) and the "performance" as well as the event can have a devastating effect on the people around them at the time. Sometimes there is no understanding of this by the person concerned but sometimes the "optimum impact" on other people is planned, knowing that those people have to live, not only with the sadness of losing someone but with the knowledge that someone WANTED them to suffer and/or feel guilt. That is when it CAN become selfish. I have known it to be that way - indeed I have worked with young people and adults whose mental issues stem from just such an event and who are unable to move on.
I think each case has to be judged individually and there is no "one size fits all" answer to this. I realise that this is an emotive subject and that people have experiences that differ hugely but there are many sides to this issue.
I do, however understand what Taz is saying too. Sometimes suicides are pre-meditated, even stage managed (if I can use a theatrical term) and the "performance" as well as the event can have a devastating effect on the people around them at the time. Sometimes there is no understanding of this by the person concerned but sometimes the "optimum impact" on other people is planned, knowing that those people have to live, not only with the sadness of losing someone but with the knowledge that someone WANTED them to suffer and/or feel guilt. That is when it CAN become selfish. I have known it to be that way - indeed I have worked with young people and adults whose mental issues stem from just such an event and who are unable to move on.
I think each case has to be judged individually and there is no "one size fits all" answer to this. I realise that this is an emotive subject and that people have experiences that differ hugely but there are many sides to this issue.
mod-karen79
rainbows holiday buddy :)
...and the suicides you talk of that are deemed 'selfish' don't tend to be carried out by people of sound mind just to shock others.
i imagine that's where issues such as behavioural issues, such as personality disorders or attachment disorders come into play.
i imagine that's where issues such as behavioural issues, such as personality disorders or attachment disorders come into play.
mod-karen79
rainbows holiday buddy :)
Gemstone
Here for the Journey
I'm not really suggesting that ANY suicide is likely to be carried out by a person of sound mind but it is possible that some of the decisions around them may be taken with no other purpose in mind but to hurt another human being, often someone who loves or cares for them. In one case I knew of a guy who, with an acrimonious divorce behind him felt he had nothing left to live for and he made his suicide into an act of ultimate revenge, planned meticulously to have the impact he wanted. At best suicide is the ultimate guilt trip for those left behind.
In the case of the railway suicides, it is probably not that personal but I wouldn't like to be the one to "pick up the pieces". Sometimes the drivers see the face of the "jumper" before it happens, something which must haunt them for the rest of their lives. I don't know how I would cope with that.
I hope you don't think I am insensitive to the issues involved. All the disorders listed in your post could play a part in a suicide. I probably understand a lot more than you think and you obviously know a lot about these issues too. All kinds of things contribute to the decision or impulse to take ones own life and I am merely suggesting sometimes (though not always) there may be a little selfishness involved too.
Sorry if these thoughts offend. x
I hope you enjoyed the Ice Cream. It sounds yummy
mod-karen79
rainbows holiday buddy :)
the ice cream has made me feel sick ...and also very sleepy (sugar crash). i want to go to sleep but i will get acid if i do, so i'm sitting up until it goes down!
i understand what you're saying about the suicide thing, but i, personally, just feel that the word 'selfish' is the wrong word, that's all.
i understand what you're saying about the suicide thing, but i, personally, just feel that the word 'selfish' is the wrong word, that's all.
Gemstone
Here for the Journey
the ice cream has made me feel sick ...and also very sleepy (sugar crash). i want to go to sleep but i will get acid if i do, so i'm sitting up until it goes down!
i understand what you're saying about the suicide thing, but i, personally, just feel that the word 'selfish' is the wrong word, that's all.
That's OK Karen. It may well be the wrong word but like everything else to do with people it is many faceted and complex. There are many different personalities involved.
I hope you escape the acid.
Take care and sleep well x
tizzy44
Full Member
My mother as I said in an earlier post commited suicide. I was angry at 1st but I did know her reasons, she had been abused when quite young and had a terrible time, she fought most of her life, 40 years, to get to grip with her inner demons and just couldnt handle it in the end. I new that her pain to stay alive was 100 times worse than our pain to loose her. So in her case I have forgiven her.
On the subject of being selfish, people who commit suicide very rarely are thinking straight, if they were they would get help and not actually take their lives. I think its very unfair to do it, and as we are in control of our lives then we arnt going to understand why they do it. I have been very ill recently and a couple of months ago I got to the point were I didnt want to wake up in the morning!! I saw my doctor and luckily I have now got a diagnosis for my illness and I know I am not going mad!! and am getting ontop of my life. So I no longer feel like I did 2 months ago, I was lucky to have my doc help me. but I did know just briefly what it feels like to not want to be here.
Anyway, on a lighter note, I hope all this indept talk on suicide isnt upsetting Taz, she has enough to deal with I think.
Hope your ok Taz. Lv Tiz xx:wave_cry:
On the subject of being selfish, people who commit suicide very rarely are thinking straight, if they were they would get help and not actually take their lives. I think its very unfair to do it, and as we are in control of our lives then we arnt going to understand why they do it. I have been very ill recently and a couple of months ago I got to the point were I didnt want to wake up in the morning!! I saw my doctor and luckily I have now got a diagnosis for my illness and I know I am not going mad!! and am getting ontop of my life. So I no longer feel like I did 2 months ago, I was lucky to have my doc help me. but I did know just briefly what it feels like to not want to be here.
Anyway, on a lighter note, I hope all this indept talk on suicide isnt upsetting Taz, she has enough to deal with I think.
Hope your ok Taz. Lv Tiz xx:wave_cry:
Gemstone
Here for the Journey
Thank you for your thoughts Tizzy. All those years ago abuse was often a "toxic secret" and you didn't talk about it. This meant that many people had to live with that pain inside of them, often internalising the guilt they should never have felt. When I was a child the mother of a school friend of mine was a "jumper". It happened when she was just a baby. It turned out that my friend's father was also her grandfather. Her mother took her life through torment and even then the "toxic secret" carried on. It all came to a head for my friend when she was in her teens and she found out about her dad through rumour. There are still children even today who are keeping "toxic family secrets" and it causes such torment and pain. Sorry if any of the above posts brought back sad memories for you. x
Love to Taz x
tizzy44
Full Member
Hi Gem, Thanks for your reply, You are right about so much of this hidden abuse, it is so sad. I can deal with it now, but so many people don't.
I just hope Taz is ok, I was worried that all this talk would make her feel worse.
Bye for now, all the best Tiz
And big hugs to Taz xxxx
Gemstone
Here for the Journey
You are kind Tizzy. I think Taz is a very open person who appreciates open views and will take from all this what she needs to take.
Taz - I hope the atmosphere is not too bad at work for you and you are coming to terms with everything that has happened. (((hugs))) x
Taz - I hope the atmosphere is not too bad at work for you and you are coming to terms with everything that has happened. (((hugs))) x
mod-karen79
rainbows holiday buddy :)
Jensjeremies
Member of **SW Angels**
Hi Taz, I've been ducking in and out of the forums all week and haven't been reading much, just catching up now. So sorry to hear about your loss. I know what you mean about it being a difficult situation when you don't want a loved one to suffer anymore but you don't want to lose them I guess that comes from us not really knowing where they go when they're gone. Maybe if we did we'd be more content at letting them rest. I'm lucky in that most of my grandparents have lived to be a right old age, I've got a granny now who is 95! She's so fit it's unbelievable but I know that she's a bit fed up of life now. My grandpa died last year and after that she thought she'd follow soon after but she's healthy so she's sticking around!! We don't live forever, we all know that but death is so hard to accept.
I hope you're doing ok hun. XX
I hope you're doing ok hun. XX
