Lost & Found... Map Gone AWOL!

[sleepybird]

Hugs back to you Katy. You wouldn't be as hard on, or think of as badly anyone else going through this phase. Don't make me have to come up there!! Hope you have a happy day tomorrow xxx

 

[curlywurly1234]

You can do it hon, your doing fab!
Hope your work trip goes well hon.
Take care xxx

 

[Katycakes]

Hope a good day awaits us all... I am all packed & setting off on work trip about 10.30. Will be travelling most of day but have mountains of work to keep me busy on the train & a bar to have for tea in the hotel once I 'land'. I am in a slightly better place now and hoping the trip away will strengthen this. By the time I return on Monday afternoon I need to be in that zone and determined, and let go of the fear that creeps up when I fall into a binge.

Last night ended with a slice of cheesecake. After a so-so day you'd think I would have said no to this, but I didn't... son had made it at school, given a bit to his gran who sneakily fed it to dog & told him it was lovely. She didn't mean to hurt his feelings, but he saw her and was uspet by this. Before bed, he noticed his dad had gone to bed without having a slice as well, & then came and said that even I wouldn't have any. So... I had a tiny slice. It was GORGEOUS. Every bit was lovely, and he could see I meant that... asked him t make a big version for Xmas when families descend. He was very happy.

But the cheesecake got me thinking. OK, it was not great timing to have cheesecake late at night when my day had been a battling kind of day. But I chose to have it for a reason. And BOY was it worth it, small but fab, a million miles from the biscuit binges that have plagued me all week.

I knew right away that while the cheesecake was possibly not a good choice cal-wise, it was an excellent choice in every other way. It did not make me feel guilty or stupid or bad. It did not feel like self-harm or make me want to hide away while eating it so nobody would see. It just felt NORMAL. I am often struck that when I & others say have binged or slipped, the wise ones say 'hope you at least enjoyed it!'. The whole thing about binges is that it never is about enjoying for me. I even choose foods I don't like especially, cheap 'copies' of the lovely sweet food I do love. So... a 'value' pack of biccies, rather than homemade cheesecake.

I am still wondering why and what to make of this, but this morning it makes me wonder why I'd ever stuff on something I don't even like. To feel bad? To feel stupid, weak, a failure? To try and unravel the hard work I have done? I can see that this weeks binges are a little less scary/full-on on the run of previous ones 10 days before. And that THEY are less major than the pre-CD ones, when binge eating was a way of life for months at a stretch. Then a few weeks of none, then back again, endlessly.

I so hope I am starting to get the upper hand, too early I think to say that, but not too early to hope.

Big hugs all.

xxx

 

[LizzMB]

someone said to me hun post choc-gate that something i felt so guilty and horrible about, was second nature before CD so that in itself was a lesson learned and a huge step in the right direction and thats the same for you, even though the biscuits werent enjoyed etc which is another matter i think, at least you have identified it as something you dont want to do again in the future.

I guess there might be an element of self-sabbotage involved with the biscuits....or just that need for something sweet that took you down the wrong path! Whatever it is, you have identified that you would prefer to spend your cals elsewhere and thats a start!

the time out the house will certainly seperate you from those nasty biscuits hun! Phone the hotel first and ask them to remove any biscuits out the room if necessary!

Hope all goes well today hun!

xx

 

[sleepybird]

Morning Katy and all.
I would have done EXACTLY the same thing re your sons cheesecake. Sometimes its more than worrying about a few extra calories, the joy you gave your child was priceless and is what being a parent is about.
Hope your trip goes well and im glad you are feeling more positive and realise that however you are/behave now is a million times different to pre CD. Don't work too hard! xxx

 

[KD]

I am often struck that when I & others say have binged or slipped, the wise ones say 'hope you at least enjoyed it!'.

I don't say that often, though might say it if I don't class it as a true binge.

Lots of people say they've binged when really they have just overeaten. Binging has a separate definition. Set amount of food in a set amount of time blah blah. Think I have it written down somewhere.

I know you didn't enjoy the biscuits, but it wasn't a binge. Sort of half way there. though ...but you stopped before that point :clap:

The whole thing about binges is that it never is about enjoying for me. I even choose foods I don't like especially, cheap 'copies' of the lovely sweet food I do love. So... a 'value' pack of biccies, rather than homemade cheesecake.

Yeah...binging can be anything foodwise, and quality rarely comes into it. When I binged I didn't really taste, it wasn't in my mouth long enough. I had to swallow quick to get the next bit in. It could be painful and very manic at times. And sometimes I would cry while I ate because I didn't want any more and couldn't stop it.

I am still wondering why and what to make of this, but this morning it makes me wonder why I'd ever stuff on something I don't even like. To feel bad? To feel stupid, weak, a failure? To try and unravel the hard work I have done?

I think that sometimes you need to find the cause, and sometimes you need to accept that it 'just is'. With me, it was lots of little things. Some things I discovered quite quick, somethings I learnt over time, and perhaps I still have lightbulb moments to come. At the beginning though, I just worked on how to stop it and how to be at peace with myself when it happened.

Okay, it sounds more logical to find out why first...but it didn't work like that with me as there was so much unravelling to do. All I knew was the 'why' I didn't want to be big again and didn't want to binge again.

 

[Watergirl]

Hey Katy, hope your journey and your trip goes well. Sounds like you're trying so hard to work through things.
Cheesecake sounds fab have to say!

It's funny why we binge and you say you're not even keen on biscuits. Sometimes I would specifically buy things I didn't like that much and someone once asked me why and I said 'I feel like I'm less likely to binge on them.' Strange illogical thinking, as I'd end up doing it anyway, but didn't feel so bad if I didn't enjoy it.

Thanks for all your support whilst I was going through everything, really appreciated it x

 

[Katycakes]

OK... in hotel in London, free wi-fi!!! Yay!

Day has been a good one, food-wise... like so:

porridge, berries, 0% yog
latte, almond/polenta cake (still craving sweet stuff but this was my dinner, in cafe in town)
M&S 'rainbow' salad (used only 1/2 dressing) & CD bar with mint tea

Wanted more lattes but resisted & had water, and BADLY wanted egg butty in station but had bargained that polenta/almond cake would be my lunch and wasn't going back on it. The rainbow salad was FAB, soya beans, chick peas, cous cous, grated carrot, etc. It was 300 cals but didn't add all of the dressing. Then had CD bar as planned. For the first time in a week I feel happy with that. Probably about 1000/1200 cals which is fine as all week it has been a LOT more.

PHEW.

Thanks KD & Liz for checking in. Big hugs Liz, know it will still feel very weird just now but you will be OK hon.

KD. Can I think thru some of what you have said? In another post maybe?

xxx

 

[Katycakes]

KD... thanks for having the patience of a saint.

I don't mean you especially about the 'hope you enjoyed it' phrase, I see this alot all over the boards, most recently on Lizz's about the chocolates, and it's something people seem to say in response to a binge, and it struck me strongly that the 'enjoying it' was never really possible for me.

It is almost part of my own definition of a binge. Enjoyed it? Overeaten maybe, but possibly worth it. Or not. But at least enjoyed the food. Binge? Like you say, food stuffed in without tasting, at speed, in secret, with no happiness or sense of pleasure, only shame and sadness and a greed that is a world away from pleasure. Sometimes it could have been cardboard, for all the taste was worth.

I know you didn't enjoy the biscuits, but it wasn't a binge. Sort of half way there.

I agree... but I guess I knew what was coming. The following day I didn't post what I had eaten. Not good tactic to post binges on this site, for obvious reasons. The details don't matter, but that day was full-on binge. I had all the right help, support, advice, the night before... just couldn't seem to pull back. And was very ashamed, as I feel I KNOW what to do and have so much to be strong for, just couldn't. Like someone took away every bit of power in me save the self-destruct.

The next day was bad, but not as bad, & yesterday was better in spite of shaky start. Today... back to OK. It feels sometimes like you HAVE to give in to get another chunk of calm afterwards. Sound like I have a strange mental illness. (Not going there).

So... reasons. I agree actually that I don't really want to know, I made a choice earlier in year not to go digging too deeply. I am quite scared of therapy in case what is dug up is scarier than what I am dealing with right now. Started an online cbt course a month back & haven't gone on with it for that same reason. I just want to know better how to stop it. And also to predict it coming, as I can see I was alarmed and sensed what I was falling into, just not sure if I trusted the instincts at time. And what would/should I have done?

Going back to Sat: ate cake in cafe with friends. Fave cake in WORLD. No regrets. Hadn't had any for 5 or 6 weeks. No desire to binge. Then cafe in Tesco with OH that afternoon - cream scone. WHY? Didn't need it. Taste - 5/10. But saw a chance to eat it & ate it. That was where my head was starting to get screwed up. Then bbq with a table full of homemade cakes, profiteroles, choc traybakes & truffles. One profiterole would have been fine... but ate too many. I remember thinking 'isn't it good I can do this now?' Arghhh!

Cue 4 days of mindless eating/bingeing.

KD, if you have written stuff about the binge impulse/practice, can you remember where?

And can I ask a tough question? When you battled the binge demons on maintenance, was it ever as bad as this? (I think I am asking, do you think I can learn to stop this? To maintain?)

Thank you. Sorry if you've dropped off to sleep, this is a marathon post.

xxx

 

[Wales]

Hey Katie - great news on the wifi in your hotel.

The rainbow salad sounds delicious. I haven't had a good look round M&S food hall in months, have avoided it apart from the milk aisle - think I may well be heading there on payday

Hope the rest of your trip goes well x

 

[Porgeous]

This is just an observation as I am not hugely experienced with binge eating in it's truest sense but from what I do understand it usually has very little to do with food and everything to do with our heads. On this basis you may have to venture into the territory you fear and confront some demons.

xx

 

[Bess]

When I binged I didn't really taste, it wasn't in my mouth long enough. I had to swallow quick to get the next bit in. It could be painful and very manic at times. And sometimes I would cry while I ate because I didn't want any more and couldn't stop it.

I think that sometimes you need to find the cause, and sometimes you need to accept that it 'just is'.

Oh KD, can I give you a big hug? :hug99:

So... reasons. I agree actually that I don't really want to know, I made a choice earlier in year not to go digging too deeply. I am quite scared of therapy in case what is dug up is scarier than what I am dealing with right now. Started an online cbt course a month back & haven't gone on with it for that same reason. I just want to know better how to stop it.

xxx

Many of us have truly horrible things that lurk in the past shadows of our lives and which probably affect the way we sometimes behave. Some of us find peace in different kinds of therapy to unravel stuff, or religion, music, art and so on.
But sometimes real relief comes from mentally leaving things behind, shedding them and not trying to understand, just as you and KD have written.
The time ahead is just for us now, to love and be loved and laugh and live life with our friends and family and to let go of the problems we faced or may still do. There are many things which we can't change, people whose behaviour we wish was different, it is a blessing to move on, look to the future and leave the past behind.

Cliche ridden and all, but you probably know Desiderata? Read it again. It really helps.
Love to you both, Bess xx:hug99::hug99:

 

[Porgeous]

Oh KD, can I give you a big hug? :hug99:



Many of us have truly horrible things that lurk in the past shadows of our lives and which probably affect the way we sometimes behave. Some of us find peace in different kinds of therapy to unravel stuff, or religion, music, art and so on.
But sometimes real relief comes from mentally leaving things behind, shedding them and not trying to understand, just as you and KD have written.
The time ahead is just for us now, to love and be loved and laugh and live life with our friends and family and to let go of the problems we faced or may still do. There are many things which we can't change, people whose behaviour we wish was different, it is a blessing to move on, look to the future and leave the past behind.

Cliche ridden and all, but you probably know Desiderata? Read it again. It really helps.
Love to you both, Bess xx:hug99::hug99:

I think it's a tale of two halves. Overeating and binge eating for me are two very different things.

Overeating is a conscious choice, usually something that we get some enjoyment and satisfaction from and there need be no underlying cause other than self gratification. This for me is when you can move on and accept that your actions were just because you wanted to.

Binge eating on the other hand is self destructive, there is very little consciousness of what is being eaten and it is rarely enjoyed and comes with feelings of guilt and shame. Because this isn't driven by pleasure or desire it is more difficult to just stop because there has to be an understanding of what drives it otherwise how do you stop?

xx

 

[KD]

KD, if you have written stuff about the binge impulse/practice, can you remember where?

Most of it is in my head, though I do write bits every now and again. Goodness knows where. Someone from here was trying to do a blog of my stuff and it was driving her nuts (though she was nuts in the first place me thinks), cos everything is all over the place

Much that I found out about binge eating came from stuff by Christopher Fairburn which I bought once I eventually admitted to myself I had a problem.

He's the world authority of the disorder evidently. Quite a heavy going book, and I didn't really use much of it to help me, just mainly found my own way after reading about the research he has done taking ideas from it.

And can I ask a tough question? When you battled the binge demons on maintenance, was it ever as bad as this?

I did binge at times, but not long sessions. Always managed to get out of it the next day. BUT, I lost 6 stone with SW and managed to binge my way to an 8 stone gain. So, many lessons learnt from past experience.

(I think I am asking, do you think I can learn to stop this? To maintain?)

Absolutely, but you really do have to take things and apply them. It's no good just reading this thread. That's the easy bit

It doesn't sort itself and I found I had to do a lot of head stuff. Much of it was uncomfortable and I didn't want to do it. And no, it was delving deep into my past. I didn't want to do that either. I had to look to the future and live in the 'now'.

I think many people (including myself) have snacked through family sized crisp packet whilst reading dieting books, or how to stop overeating books, and nodded all the way through them. It's when you really take it all on board and walk that walk you make progress. when you realise that nothing is going to work just by reading about it. You have to get up in the morning and know that you just have to do it. That you have to change your mindset. That you cannot let yourself run away with everything in the kitchen.

There are so many pieces to the jigsaw that it's hard to say "do this and all will be well", because that doesn't work. You have to do this, and that, and that, and that....etc...etc and when it works, you have to keep doing it, and keep finding new ways of dealing with new issues that pop up when you don't expect.

There's just so many little things. Stopping the diet is a big un, and scary, but dieting is one of the major causes of binging. Working out the whys, not having good and bad food, or good and bad days, learning to forgive yourself and being proud of each moment that you aren't thinking about food, or craving something. Being proud of yourself for stopping a binge. The list goes on, but each on is so important.

Okay, so if you read this, do you recognise many of the sentences above? I think they've all been said to you. But you don't take it on.

That sounds so harsh, but I hope I can say it....not going to delete that bit. I hope you can take it from me, because I've been there. I've read and understood, but not realised the importance of it all. I didn't think things applied to me, thought they didn't matter. If anyone said I should be proud, I just thought they were trying to be nice.

I hoped that there would be an easier way. There wasn't. I had to do it, because not doing it wasn't working.

You can stop doing this whenever you want, but you have to want to more than anything and you have to keep plugging away. And you have to remember that a binge can be stopped at any moment. One item does not lead to another unless you let it. You are fully in control of the situation. Never, ever let yourself believe that you are out of control, because it's just not true. Every extra biscuit or whatever is your choice.

This does sound quite a tough message reading it back to myself, and I hope you don't think I'm judging or losing patience because I'm not at all. Just want you to get out of that hole and not keep pulling yourself down like I did for so many years.

You've got to sort it, and you can.:hug99:

 

[KD]

Teehee...that was a mammouth post wasn't it...even for me

 

[KD]

Binge eating on the other hand is self destructive, there is very little consciousness of what is being eaten and it is rarely enjoyed and comes with feelings of guilt and shame.

Strangely enough, my binge eating didn't come with guilt or shame. Not really. It was part of what I thought I was. Not that I'd labelled myself, but a lot of it was doing it because that's what I did.

Something was missing. Can't figure out any particular emotion, but after a while of overeating, I just didn't feel I could stop, and the eating would get faster and faster and I couldn't swallow quick enough. It was like being famished. Truly starving and nothing would fill it.

Because this isn't driven by pleasure or desire it is more difficult to just stop because there has to be an understanding of what drives it otherwise how do you stop? xx

Not so easy when so many things drive it. For instance, I found that if I ate really well during the day. Healthy stuff etc, I binged less in the evening. So is eating plenty of healthy stuff in the day the answer? Part of it. But just one piece of the jigsaw.

If I didn't restrict calories, it helped. Another bit of the jigsaw. If I didn't have days on and off, that helped, because there was no tomorrow to do it 'right'. If I ate regularly, that helped.

and then if I just stopped...that helped

And if I really understood that I could stop at any moment; that it was a conscious choice that I was making...that helped too

None of those things even touched on why I was doing it...but they helped anyway.

 

[Porgeous]

Not so easy when so many things drive it. For instance, I found that if I ate really well during the day. Healthy stuff etc, I binged less in the evening. So is eating plenty of healthy stuff in the day the answer? Part of it. But just one piece of the jigsaw.

If I didn't restrict calories, it helped. Another bit of the jigsaw. If I didn't have days on and off, that helped, because there was no tomorrow to do it 'right'. If I ate regularly, that helped.

and then if I just stopped...that helped

And if I really understood that I could stop at any moment; that it was a conscious choice that I was making...that helped too

None of those things even touched on why I was doing it...but they helped anyway.

OMG I am totally speechless, this has got to be the the nearest anyone has ever come to summing up what maintenance is all about.

On the binge eating thing I'm gonna shut up cos I really don't know enough about it

 

[KD]

OMG I am totally speechless, this has got to be the the nearest anyone has ever come to summing up what maintenance is all about.

Funny that eh. See..different problem, but the same answers.

On the binge eating thing I'm gonna shut up cos I really don't know enough about it

Nooooo, because you know the answers and as I say, it's the same. Don't go away whatever you do. I need backup

 

[Porgeous]

Funny that eh. See..different problem, but the same answers.



Nooooo, because you know the answers and as I say, it's the same. Don't go away whatever you do. I need backup

You don't get rid of me that easy . I think I understand where you are coming from, the why doesn't necessarily have any bearing on how we learn to deal with it. Whilst the why can be different for every individual the steps that we can take to help ourselves can be applied regardless?

 

[KD]

You don't get rid of me that easy . I think I understand where you are coming from, the why doesn't necessarily have any bearing on how we learn to deal with it. Whilst the why can be different for every individual the steps that we can take to help ourselves can be applied regardless?

Yeah, I think so. It might feel a little more pressing, or possibly scary. I don't know. Maybe feels a litte tougher because you aren't just trying to deal with food issues quite the same. You have that as well.

But yes....the steps are still very similar.