Stalls and Gains. Need help

[SuzyK]

Hi Nerys

Well done on your weight loss so far. Why you have reached a plateau I don't know but I have been on and off diets for years and always reached that point or else I fell of the wagon and never got back on and that is why I still have a problem.

Just a couple of things I want to mention, have you looked closely at people on a gastric band, their skin and hair for example, I guess after time they start to look well again but they do suffer health wise even if it is not very obvious and they are also mointoired by doctors, at least they should be.

Talking of doctors, that is the other point I wanted to raise. Have you tried to discuss your diet with a doctor or dietitian. I know you health care is different to ours but you still have state hospitals and I am sure you could get to see somebody to talk this over with.

Also you have at your fingertips the biggest tool of all. The internet. I spoke to doctors and experts last year about my sons health issue just by getting onto the right sites and asking the questions.

I am still a newbie to this site and everyone has been a great support but I think you need to move on from being given advice from people that are only trying to help and get a professional opinion on where you go from now.

This is only my opinion as reading the posts I can see you have had some great replies from people that know a lot more about diets and carbs and cals etc than I do.

Must get on as I have work to do.

Good luck and all the best

 

[nerys-]

Point is Irish mum you jumped to an incorrect conclusion. Point is you provided data that caused me to ask questions.

Then you jumped down my throat for nothing more than asking reasonable sensible questions.

I know the slippery slope that kind of internet arguing can lead to if not checked early and I wanted to avoid it at all costs.

I will not go down the internet arguing path. I will stop posting before it gets to that point. Who gains from that?

Doctors are not much of an option around here without insurance. Pretty much what I can get online is it. Problem with questions is you need to know what questions to ask. I have no idea what I need to ask.

 

[IrishMum]

Point is Irish mum you jumped to an incorrect conclusion. .

Where?

Then you jumped down my throat for nothing more than asking reasonable sensible questions..

Again- where?
If anything I've tried to word my responses to try and cause the least offence possible?!

Problem with questions is you need to know what questions to ask. I have no idea what I need to ask.

You are asking valid questions, and well-thought out ones that are obviously causing you great anxiety, but you don't like the answers you're getting.
I think that might be why there are very few others responding to your thread? They can't offer you any different advice, so why post when its something you've already dismissed.
Just a thought.

 

[nerys-]

I have not GOTTEN answers yet.

Why am I stalling? how is it POSSIBLE to eat 1400 calories and NOT lose weight. IE how can 1400 calories possibly be enough for my body??

I don't care what mode my body is in. Either it has enough energy or it does not. that part is a simple math problem. CLEARLY 1400 calories is enough energy for my body to survive on. How do I know? its been doing it for over 3 months. NO energy issues. No aches No pains No hunger issues No cravings issues. I have plenty of energy. I still walk 1-3 hours daily without issue without getting tired (actually I have never reached a point where walking made me tired ever)

I asked for an explanation of this.

also YOUR OWN data said lower than 800cal was starvation mode SO I asked about that. Nothing more. I JUST asked.

this is when you jumped on me about ignoring what other people are advising. Going my own way against the advice of others etc.. Just go reread your posts.

Thats when I got testy.

so look at it from my angle. Why post when you have predetermined what is a right answer AND predetermined my answers before I even give them.

Just a thought I am hoping this is just one big misunderstanding. I REALLY enjoy the info and feedback I get here. But its not worth stressing over thats for sure.

I also have GOALS. so I am going to ask questions with the intent of acquiring that goal. Every bit of information I get will be vetted against Will this get me my goal. This is only logical.

as far as people on gastric and the band. I went to all my dad's classes etc.. when he was getting his. 99% of the time the issue is always not enough protein. Skin suffers hair suffers etc.. etc..

based on the link provided IT APPEARS as if I am getting sufficient protien. Should I be doing MORE than 100grams? (site suggested 99g as the minimum)

 

[IrishMum]

Okay. I'm going to stop posting after this.

Again- my answer to your question "Why am I not losing weight?": You are not eating enough. Your body is existing, just. It is now (after 3mths of chronically undereating for your size) catching up- thats why you've stalled.

Again, I did not 'jump' on you for ignoring what people were advising- you admitted you were ignoring what people were advising if you didn't like it! No matter if you call it 'bypassing' advice- it's the same thing.
Bren suggested settling at 1400 for a few weeks to let your body settle- but you won't entertain that idea because it won't result in quick losses. Soozb suggested low-carbing, but that can end up quite high-cal, and I imagine you also dismissed that idea because of your previous experience of stalling quickly, again, because of your desire to do this as quickly as possible. But as both of these ladies haven't posted since I can only imagine they've realised (quicker than me!) that you can only give advice, not make someone take it if they're determined to ignore it.
Thats it. It's that simple. If you've done any reading at all on any other websites about starvation mode your question would've been answered the same. I'm not a lone crusader here. I've obviously touched a nerve, and you're determined to carry on regardless, so I'll cease trying to explain to you whats happening.
I can only hope that during your research online that you will discover the 'magic' solution to quick weight loss that you desire, and prove all the nutrition/health experts out there wrong.
Good luck.

 

[coley144]

I'd suggest you get your thyroid checked. Putting on 200 pounds in 9 months is a huge amount...it suggests that your metabolism (regulated by your thyroid) is amazingly slow...whatever you ate. It also runs in families.

Are you cold, tired, dry skin with a slow pulse?

I started dieting at 303 pounds, ate 1500 cals a day. Lost for 3 months then stalled. Then I did Cambridge (600 cals a day) and after 5 months stalled. My body just adjusted to the calories it was getting and slowed everything down. Why? I was hypothyroid.

It just takes a blood test to find out. I'd check.

Otherwise if you can't afford that then just eat the highest amount you can and still lose. Why? This keeps your metabolism fired up and also gives you further to drop to when you stall. Everyone stalls. No-one always loses a pound when they cut down 3500 calories. It is maths but it isn't real life. Sorry.

I do think that if you figure out how you put on the weight in the first place you'll solve the problems you are having now.

 

[nerys-]

irishmum. Seriously now are you dense or something or just not reading. Its starting to get really tiring.

I HAVE BEEN AT 1400 CALORIES FOR OVER THREE WEEKS NOW. This has NOT CHANGED. I am not STUPID I do not make changes for no logical reason with no logical goal in mind for that change.

are you telling me I need to EAT MORE? I am sorry that is a logical fail to me unless you can EXPLAIN it to me.

I was losing steady weight at 800-900 cals. I changed to 1400 ON YOUR GUYS SUGGESTION since you said I could be HURTING myself at 800-900

your arguments were logical and made sense So I made the change.

I don't want a magical solution. I want a logical workable solution.

Now you need to understand MY position. I was eating in excess of 5000cals a day and NOT GAINING WEIGHT.

Now I am eating 1400 cals a day and STILL not gaining and NOT LOSING.

Do you not see the logic error this causes my mind to see? I want to know WHY.

For example I know THE TYPE OF FOOD regardless of calories can have an impact. When I started adding BREAD to my diet I stalled IMMEDIATELY. when I stopped having bread the stall went away.

OK so I avoid bread. THIS is what I am seeking. my brain tells me that I should be losing weight on 1400 calories.

NORMAL is 2000 calories. 1400 IS NOT MUCH LOWER THAN NORMAL. I just want clarification and no one seems to want to give it to me or maybe no one really knows. Thats fine too.

talking to you is not being productive. I said I WOULD ignore advice is it was in contradiction to my objectives.

you just seem to want to IGNORE what I type and cherry pick words and meanings from what I type.

 

[nerys-]

I know why I put on the weight. My fault really but partially just amazing unaware and naive. in school I was insanely active. When I say active its a huge understatement. I was busy 16+ hours a day. if I came home normal time after school "SOMETHING" was wrong ROTC, Scouts, CAP, Football, Wrestling, Debate, TSA, Rocketry, Gliding, hiking, climbing, Mountain Biking etc.. etc.. etc..

When I went to college it was a nexus of coincidences that just creamed me. Because of my activity level I ate some SERIOUS food quantities. BUT because of my activity level I never gained a pound.

College introduced me to Computers, always on internet, and ALMOST ZERO activities (100% of my off time was studying Grade school was childish to me I did not even have to think about it to get A's college was a whole nother ball game) I actually had to work at it and hard.

BUT I keep eating like I always did. massive quantities of food. I seriously exploded that year.

I was able to get it under control pretty easily but have found it amazingly difficult to get RID of the weight. Then bills debt and work took over my life so activity level dropped to nill and I was less capable of activity at my new mass.

The only diet that worked before this attempt was low carbing. The reason I gave it up is simple. I stalled for MONTHS on end and it was just too expensive to eat that way.

I could no longer justify the expense without any sort of payback.

I went back to normal eating gained 10 pounds of the 50 I lost and I was stable their. (420 pounds I was 460 when I started the low carb)

I stayed at 420 for the next 2 years till this september when I tried this.

this morning I am 371 a pound heavier than yesterday.

 

[tarotwoman]

Nery's,

Instead of thinking of pure maths, think of your body as being a power station. In normal circumstances the raw materials go in and at the end, energy is produced. The station has a maximum capacity to work and if it reaches this capacity the raw materials are stored.

If you then get short of a few of the raw materials the stored ones are used and the power station can still work at maximum capacity.

If, instead of being short of a few of the raw materials you are short of everything, the power station is thrown into an uproar. It is set up to use materials as they are delivered, not one thing from one place and another thing from another place.

There is chaos because there is so much unaccustomed work to do, the workers haven't a clue what they are supposed to be doing so end up chasing their tails and getting nowhere and the factory output drops, and not much energy is produced.

A woman needs 2000 cals a day to stay the same, a man more. Therefore if you eat less than this your body will quite happily eat up it's reserves. Eating less does not neccessarily mean you will lose weight quicker. Ok, so it may take a while but did it not take a while to get there in the first place?

Tracey

 

[nerys-]

yes it did about 9-10 months roughly. so I did the math. To lose the weight at the same rate I gained it I need to lose 20 pounds a month. or about 4-5 pounds a week.

Is this that unreasonable a goal? I figured if I can gain it that quickly I should be able to lose it that quickly.

With the power plant what I want to do is make that power plant work HARDER to burn more fuel. How do I do that? I figured it was a simple matter of MORE exercise but many say this won't help as much with weight loss as I think.

If I exercise too much without increasing the energy input I run into potential starvation mode. SO how do I figure out how to maximize what I burn without going over the line.

IE go right up to that imaginary line right on the precipice but don't cross it.

 

[tarotwoman]

Hi Nerys,

The problem we have as dieters is that we have a body to work with not a factory. If you think again of the power station, to work at maximum capacity it has to have all the machinery in perfect working order, all the raw materials ready and available, and all the staff to run it.

If you have all this working at maximum capacity, the only way to then increase output is to increase absolutely everything which means expanding the factory; materials, machines, workers and premises. We can't do this with our bodies.

Thinking back to the power station it may be able to store hundreds of tons of coal if it is delivered but not used, but if at full capacity it uses say 40 tons an hour that is the most it can ever use. That is the same with your body, it can store more fat in a week than it can use, so you can't always lose the weight as quickly as you put it on.

Exercise will boost the weight loss but don't go overboard because too much unaccustomed exercise will put a strain on your body and will also stop it from doing the work you want it to do, ie, using the stored fat up.

If you overdo the exercise your body needs energy quickly so it gets that energy from other souces than fat reserves because it's easier and quicker to get at - this can include your muscles - something you don't want being used up. Another reason you don't want to lose muscle is that muscle actually needs quite a lot of energy to exist, fat doesn't so the higher proportion of muscle you have the better.

I know it's difficult but your body has to work hard to use all this excess fuel up. Let it work and help it by giving it a good balanced diet so it's cells have all the right nutrients to get on with their job as efficiently as possible.

Good luck

Tracey

 

[KD]

Ha, how did I miss out on this thread. Got a feeling I was thinking, same old..same old in this forum No offence intended Nerys.

I've just scanned the thread (it's getting late) and see mass confusion.

Bottom line is that if you are reducing calories below your BMR, you are losing fat. If you aren't losing fat, then you are very possibly miscalculating your calories. Sorry, but that's the way it is and very, very, very common...purely accidentally.

Starvation mode does exist, but it's not as straightforward as many people think. We still tend to lose fat, but also too much lean (probably not much of an issue if you have lots to lose), but definitely not healthy and can cause other problems with water retention and can be fatal.

BTW, there isn't one recorded incident of someone not losing fat when they reduce calories unless they have a serious disorder which would have been picked up anyway with other symptoms.

It sounds to me like you need some more advanced advice for your situation. I suggest your google Lyle McDonald who is an expert in physiology especially with dieting and exercise, VLCDs etc.

Wishing you all the best with your goals.

 

[JanD]

yes it did about 9-10 months roughly. so I did the math. To lose the weight at the same rate I gained it I need to lose 20 pounds a month. or about 4-5 pounds a week.

Is this that unreasonable a goal?

I believe that longterm it probably is - sorry.

All of us people with eating 'challenges' know how much easier it is to pile on the weight than get it off again. You've had some great explanations and comparisons here.

My own personal advice to you would be to try to accept as a fact that you won't lose at the above mentioned rate (even if you don't really believe it) ... In my opinion this will lead to you relaxing about it instead of desperately looking for THE answer and ultimately to you losing steadily. Even if this is 'only' 2lbs a week. If you'd been losing at the rate you want to, in the last 5 weeks you'd have lost 20-25lbs - relaxing into it and losing at a more realistic 2lbs per week you'd have lost 10lbs .... as it is you've lost nothing, I know which I'd prefer.

Good Luck to you xx

 

[nerys-]

well not losing to me means I need to work harder is all. Problem is this kind of problem is not one I can just "pound" into submission. there are forces at play that I only vaguely comprehend and I have to manipulate those forces delicately and safely.

What is BMR? I assume this is a value for "this is what I need a day" so if I take in less than this I should lose? how do I calculate this?

I have finally gotten below 369. I am now 367.1 so just shy of 52 pounds down. It would seem it was the rice. I removed rice completely and the stall abated temporarily. (I won't call it gone till I see steady lose continue) don't want to get my hopes up.

I am still taking in 1200-1400 cals a day.

One nice thing about 1200-1400 cals is I can fit in some regular foods. Every now and then I have a Hot Turkey 6" from Wawa (about 500cals) man I love turkey

it is surprising I used to eat the 12" foot long PLUS a large soup or beef stew etc.. PLUS a cheese stick

now I can have my tea and a 6" and I am satisfied and feel good.

Its a pity the rice was a problem. I get a lot of it for basically for free (my chicken chop suey comes with it) but if it takes no rice to keep losing SO BE IT.

I never accept such things as facts. They are not facts so much as "terms and conditions" which can be factual but terms and conditions be be altered if I alter the conditions. They are always to be defeated if possible. I can come to a cease fire with it and "tolerate it" but not accept it. I will always try to work harder to work around it if at all possible.

I know losing faster is possible without harming myself in the short term. I did it for 2.5 months with not one single stall. I felt good more energy more active sleeping better etc..

None of that has changed on the higher cals except the massive stall. Its very possible the stall was coincidental to the cal change. IE it may have happened either way which is why I did not abandon it immediately. I said I would give it till the new year and then decide and thats what I will do.

I believe those classes my dad attended for gastric bypass are free so I may attend some more to pick their brains a bit. IE health risks of how gastric bypass patients eat if any and how to eat like that safely without harming myself or my future health.

now that I know I can mentally eat quite a small amount of food without metal side effects I need to learn how to do so safely.

 

[BREN]

Nerys,

Sorry I have not been on recently. It appears that things have been very intense here in posts but glad it's settled now. Sometimes a problem with reading just words and not hearing them and seeing peoples faces etc to help take in and hear point of views and advice. Anyway.....

Well done on going below 369!! That's fabulous. Some times the body does get used to the same food and you need to experiment with the variety. It is very likely that your body is on the move again after the calorie stall/possible thinking of starving and the rice. It was a long. yo yo ing stall but it's onwards and downwards now. Perhaps have rice again this week just once, i;'m not sure how often you were having it.

Basically this is the highs/lows and frustrations of dieting....... suck some times.

Hey and keep at it, it is going to happen. Go with the flow and see now what happens with the 1200 OR 1400 cal days. Try and do half and half for the next 2 weeks. One day 1200 then the next 1400. It's still healthy for loosing and might aid in boosting the loss.

Anytime you need drop me a PM.

Bren
X

 

[nerys-]

well keeping at 1200 exactly or 1400 exactly is not exactly the easiest thing. I say 1200-1400 because thats what I average. never below 1200 but sometimes as high as 1450 (all an educated guess with some things etc..)

I also "inflate" the calorie value of things I am not 100% sure if just to be on the safe side. (rather go short 50-100 cals than go over 50-100 cals. so I aim for 1400 but might come up short a little on some days. so I just call it 1200-1400

same when I "WAS" doing 800-1000 cals.

 

[tarotwoman]

Keep at it Nerys and you'll get there.

Tracey

 

[BREN]

NERYS, yeah know what you mean unless I weigh everything meticauiously I try and over estimate too.

How is the number on the scales going now? I think it may still take another week perhaps for your body to definitely be convinced you are dieting! Oh and how is your sister going?

What are you plans for Xmas day?

Bren
x

 

[BREN]

Nerys hope everything is going well for you at the moment and wishing you all the very best for Xmas and the NY!

Bren
x

 

[nerys-]

fluctuating between 367 and 370 now. I will stick with it till new years and "see what happens" before changing the calories I am going to alter the amount of excersise I do and see what happens. maybe exerting more energy while staying at 1200-1400 calories will have an effect.

Lately I have been working more hours which cuts into my mall time. When possible I spend 2-3 hours a day at the mall on off days from work just walking. Problem is my legs are so huge my calf muslces so large that even walking 2-3 hours I am not the slightest bit tired. Its just NOT an energy intensive activity for me. I could walk for a seemingly unlimited number of hours and just not get tired. My feet get sore eventually but I don't get tired. IE its not burning calories as well as it could be.

I am trying to find an affordable way to go swimming. YMCA is out $500 fraking dollars a year my ass Ouch!

Trying to find a gym or something that is less than $30 a month that also has a pool. My problem with SERIOUS excercise is that I am nearly 400 pounds. I did the math on the G forces involved in say "running" needless to say I won't be doing any running. Last thing I need is to lose weight just to need knee surgery.

Found a free elliptical on craigslist and might give that a go if its still available but I don't tend to "stick" with exercise that is boring which is why I prefer the bike over a treadmill etc.. at least with the bike I can "GO" somewhere ie not boring just can't do that effectively in the winter.

I need to find energy intensive activities that are low impact on my joints. Everything I am reading says swimming is far and above the best Works EVERY muscle and is absolutely low impact.

I never imagined it would be so hard or so expensive to "swim"