hannahwil2002
Full Member
I'm not sure though that they do provide enough to generate energy - isn't that why we lose so much weight quickly?? Because it uses our fat stores for the energy we need to survive??
Hx
Useful & Interesting tip from my LLC!
- Thread starter hannahwil2002
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I'm not sure though that they do provide enough to generate energy - isn't that why we lose so much weight quickly?? Because it uses our fat stores for the energy we need to survive??
Hx
pete10141748
Postaholic
OK, I agree with everything you've quoted, but right in the first sentence it proves my point
A guided VLCD such as LL is *not* an inadequate diet.
And being in the physical state of Ketosis prevents the body from burning off it's muscle for energy, it forces the body to use it's fat for energy.
Again, in point 3
Cutting your calories on your own by just eating a lot less will lead to starvation mode and the loss of mucles.
Doing a VLCD that produces Ketosis won't; this came up in another post where someone said they couldn't get their head around "living on 500 calories a day"
I reminded them that in fact, they get every single calorie that their body needs every day, it's just that it comes from your fat stores instead of coming from your food.
the bottom line is, a VLCD, when done correctly, reduces fat, preserves muscle, and provides at least 100% of all the nutrition you need every day.
A guided VLCD such as LL is *not* an inadequate diet.
And being in the physical state of Ketosis prevents the body from burning off it's muscle for energy, it forces the body to use it's fat for energy.
Again, in point 3
Cutting your calories on your own by just eating a lot less will lead to starvation mode and the loss of mucles.
Doing a VLCD that produces Ketosis won't; this came up in another post where someone said they couldn't get their head around "living on 500 calories a day"
I reminded them that in fact, they get every single calorie that their body needs every day, it's just that it comes from your fat stores instead of coming from your food.
the bottom line is, a VLCD, when done correctly, reduces fat, preserves muscle, and provides at least 100% of all the nutrition you need every day.
EmVeg
Do a little dance!
Don't forget - LL packs contain the protein we need...
The below is from an independant site - not an LL PR spin site.
Muscle Loss
In the past, research has shown that the amount of muscle lost during dieting is directly linked to the degree of calorie restriction. In other words, the lower the calorie intake, the more muscle is lost. However, newer research has indicated that very low calorie intakes might not affect our muscle mass as much as we previously thought. However, more research is needed to confirm these findings before any definite conclusions can be made. Regardless of this, experts agree that it’s important to protect our muscle mass as much as possible as the more muscle we have, the faster our metabolism and vice versa. Exercise is one of the best ways to protect against the loss of muscle. However, it’s questionable whether many people surviving on 500 calories a day would have the energy to exercise. Finally, experts say women should never have less than 400 calories and 40g of protein a day and men should never have less than 500 calories and 50g protein daily. The Lighter Life Programme meets these requirements.
The below is from an independant site - not an LL PR spin site.
Muscle Loss
In the past, research has shown that the amount of muscle lost during dieting is directly linked to the degree of calorie restriction. In other words, the lower the calorie intake, the more muscle is lost. However, newer research has indicated that very low calorie intakes might not affect our muscle mass as much as we previously thought. However, more research is needed to confirm these findings before any definite conclusions can be made. Regardless of this, experts agree that it’s important to protect our muscle mass as much as possible as the more muscle we have, the faster our metabolism and vice versa. Exercise is one of the best ways to protect against the loss of muscle. However, it’s questionable whether many people surviving on 500 calories a day would have the energy to exercise. Finally, experts say women should never have less than 400 calories and 40g of protein a day and men should never have less than 500 calories and 50g protein daily. The Lighter Life Programme meets these requirements.
pete10141748
Postaholic
exactly right. the packs give you the minimum amount of calories for "instant" energy you need each day, the rest coming from the conversion of your bodyfat.
Bijoux
Fat Fighter
They provide enough carbs to maintain a mild state of ketosis i.e. prevent the onset of starvation. Mild ketosis burns fat, if you were in starvation mode within a month or two many of your major organs would be damaged and it may cause death.
hannahwil2002
Full Member
We also have the case of that poor young girl who died sudden after her body started to use and waste the muscles around her heart?? Think the case may have been that she either went too far on the diet or her body chose to lose the weight from other areas?? Please correct me if I'm wrong. Can't totally remember!
pete10141748
Postaholic
If I recall correctly it's because she went too far with it, both in terms of having too little bodyfat to maintain the VLCD on just packs, and also by only having 1 or 2 packs a day leading to starvation mode where her body then started using her muscle instead of her fat.
That's one of the dangerous misconceptions with a VLCD - having less doesn't mean you will lose quicker, in fact the opposite, it's dangerous!
That's one of the dangerous misconceptions with a VLCD - having less doesn't mean you will lose quicker, in fact the opposite, it's dangerous!
Hi,
I like this conversation - very interesting.
I am in Week 7 of RTM. I have just ordered a hand-held 'Body Fat Analyser' - an £25 one from ebay (a good brand called Omron).
I wish I had one of these from the start - then I would have a rough idea how much of the 8st I lost was muscle or fat.
My gut feel (pun intended) is that it was mostly fat. I regularly go to the gym again, and I don't feel like I am weaker than before LL... That is just my own feeling - not a scientific comment!
I do disagree with the quote from the excercise website above:
"3. You are not eating enough calories to support muscle growth. This is the most common cause of muscle loss. When your calories are too low, your body goes into "starvation mode." Your metabolism slows down and your body actually burns muscle tissue to conserve energy."
Muscle will only be 'burned' for energy after fat stores have been used up - fat is stored energy. This is my understanding from what I have read... plus, the term "starvation Mode" isn't very scientific... do they mean ketosis? or somthing else?
Kind Regards,
Mr. Mini Me
EDIT: I have just read the orginal excercise website where that quote is from - it is specifically talking about muscle loss from excessive aerobic exercise - in this context that comment has validity, but as an everyday rule that less calories = muscle loss, than that is not true - otherwise people would never lose fat, only muscle!
I like this conversation - very interesting.
I am in Week 7 of RTM. I have just ordered a hand-held 'Body Fat Analyser' - an £25 one from ebay (a good brand called Omron).
I wish I had one of these from the start - then I would have a rough idea how much of the 8st I lost was muscle or fat.
My gut feel (pun intended) is that it was mostly fat. I regularly go to the gym again, and I don't feel like I am weaker than before LL... That is just my own feeling - not a scientific comment!
I do disagree with the quote from the excercise website above:
"3. You are not eating enough calories to support muscle growth. This is the most common cause of muscle loss. When your calories are too low, your body goes into "starvation mode." Your metabolism slows down and your body actually burns muscle tissue to conserve energy."
Muscle will only be 'burned' for energy after fat stores have been used up - fat is stored energy. This is my understanding from what I have read... plus, the term "starvation Mode" isn't very scientific... do they mean ketosis? or somthing else?
Kind Regards,
Mr. Mini Me
EDIT: I have just read the orginal excercise website where that quote is from - it is specifically talking about muscle loss from excessive aerobic exercise - in this context that comment has validity, but as an everyday rule that less calories = muscle loss, than that is not true - otherwise people would never lose fat, only muscle!
EmVeg
Do a little dance!
We also have the case of that poor young girl who died sudden after her body started to use and waste the muscles around her heart?? Think the case may have been that she either went too far on the diet or her body chose to lose the weight from other areas?? Please correct me if I'm wrong. Can't totally remember!
UNfortunatly, she had an undiagnosed existing heart condition - so where what was happening would not effect other people it was fatal to her.
pete10141748
Postaholic
Starvation Mode is totally different to Ketosis.
Starvation Mode aoccurs when the body does not get enough calories, vitiamins and minerals (basically, you are starving i.e. not eating), at which point the body trys to hold on to all of the fat it does have for a later time when it might really need it, and instead turns to muscle and other tissues to convert to energy, as muscle and other tissues convert into energy faster, easier and better than fat does.
The combination of all contents contained in 4 daily packs prevents starvation mode occuring, hence there will be no loss of muscle or other tissues, only fats.
Starvation Mode aoccurs when the body does not get enough calories, vitiamins and minerals (basically, you are starving i.e. not eating), at which point the body trys to hold on to all of the fat it does have for a later time when it might really need it, and instead turns to muscle and other tissues to convert to energy, as muscle and other tissues convert into energy faster, easier and better than fat does.
The combination of all contents contained in 4 daily packs prevents starvation mode occuring, hence there will be no loss of muscle or other tissues, only fats.
Bijoux
Fat Fighter
Ditto Pete.
Ketosis is the metabolism of fat. When you are "starvation mode" your body will metabolise anything to get energy to ensure you live it will start burning up muscle and protein. Important organs like the heart are muscle so the heart can be used as an energy source. That's why it is dangerous.
Ketosis is the metabolism of fat. When you are "starvation mode" your body will metabolise anything to get energy to ensure you live it will start burning up muscle and protein. Important organs like the heart are muscle so the heart can be used as an energy source. That's why it is dangerous.
hannahwil2002
Full Member
Hi,
EDIT: I have just read the orginal excercise website where that quote is from - it is specifically talking about muscle loss from excessive aerobic exercise - in this context that comment has validity, but as an everyday rule that less calories = muscle loss, than that is not true - otherwise people would never lose fat, only muscle!
But I think it still stands in this case. Their theory would still be correct to us! We are told not to do any exercise for the first few weeks on LL due to lack of energy so we would not be using our muscles to full usage for quite a while! Surely it can't be just definition we lose??
pete10141748
Postaholic
If you usually exercise a lot and have larger muscles built up from this, then your muscle cells will deflate and look less defined/large, but you are not at risk of actually burning your muscle tissues away for energy.
hannahwil2002
Full Member
EmVeg
Do a little dance!
There is no definative scientific results on this. We could all go away and find reports that say you do lose a large amount of muscle, you lose a little and its not a problem, or you lose none at all and just definition.
Personally, I think you lose definition and a little bit of muscle - but I do not think it is enough to be a problem.
I know for sure if I thought my muscle was wasting away I would not be starting LL at all!
Personally, I think you lose definition and a little bit of muscle - but I do not think it is enough to be a problem.
I know for sure if I thought my muscle was wasting away I would not be starting LL at all!
pete10141748
Postaholic
Hannah said:
Not to worry, there is a ton of science behind all of this, but rest assured that you don't need to worry about it. So long as you have your 4 packs a day, you'll be healthy and slim in no time
hannahwil2002
Full Member
Perhaps I should change my original comment lol. First week loss due to 'muscle disuse' causing large weight loss in the first week! Muscle weighs more than fat, if we are not using them as much then we will lose weight! lol
pete10141748
Postaholic
Oh no, here we go again! lol
Muscle doesnt weigh more than fat.
A pound is a pound.
It's just that muscle cells are more streamlined than fat cells; a pound of fat takes up more physical space than a pound of muscle, but they still both weight a pound.
It's like the difference between bricks and feathers.
A ton of bricks weighs the same as a ton of feathers, it's just there'd be a lot more feathers than bricks!
heheh more confusing science eh?
Blonde Logic
Yes. You can.
There are still a lot of posts here to read, but t hought I'd jump in.
I just completed RTM last week, and I followed the plan as precisely as I thoght was right - there are little guidelines, and an awful lot of guess-work and common sense. But I followed it the best I saw how to.
During RTM, my weight went up, then came bcak down. At completion, I was up 2.5 pounds. In my fist week of LL, I lost 9.
Its not going to be the same for everyone.
And Pete, I did actually lose some muscle I think, but at the very very end. It sure felt like loss of muscle anyway. I have been walking and its building back up.
I planned to go into RTM 1/2 stone below my intended target, to allow for that to come back. But I decided to start RTM at my goal so it could coincide with Thanksgiving back home. Now I want to lose those remianing 7.
Your body DOES replenish itself during the 12 weeks - and BE PREPARED - it does change how you look and feel. For me, its made me a bit nuts - I keep checking to make sure I am not getting fat again, and I don;t like this filling out stuff. I want to look gaunt again.
Anyway - it will be different for everyone.
I just completed RTM last week, and I followed the plan as precisely as I thoght was right - there are little guidelines, and an awful lot of guess-work and common sense. But I followed it the best I saw how to.
During RTM, my weight went up, then came bcak down. At completion, I was up 2.5 pounds. In my fist week of LL, I lost 9.
Its not going to be the same for everyone.
And Pete, I did actually lose some muscle I think, but at the very very end. It sure felt like loss of muscle anyway. I have been walking and its building back up.
I planned to go into RTM 1/2 stone below my intended target, to allow for that to come back. But I decided to start RTM at my goal so it could coincide with Thanksgiving back home. Now I want to lose those remianing 7.
Your body DOES replenish itself during the 12 weeks - and BE PREPARED - it does change how you look and feel. For me, its made me a bit nuts - I keep checking to make sure I am not getting fat again, and I don;t like this filling out stuff. I want to look gaunt again.
Anyway - it will be different for everyone.
hannahwil2002
Full Member
*zips up mouth* - I can't compete anymore!...I'm too hungry! :8855:
