VLCD Boundary Pushers

[lauren-1986]

Pandora, I agree with your original post.. People have taken it completely out of context.

It is not an attack on those who have the occasional blip, It is about those people who 'adapt' the diet (and it may work for them) giving newbies tips and tricks which aren't recommended by CD themselves.

Please everyone, don't get upset or annoyed by this thread, everyone has an opinion and everyone is entitled to an opinion.

I personally have only had good losses when sticking 100% to the plan, others are lucky enough to add bits in and still have a good loss, however, my view of the original message on this thread, is that it is saying even if you do adapt CD, don't try & give the same tips to others as we are given the official information by our CDCs and we should be encouraging newbies to follow 100% rather than highlighting tricks that may work for you that are 'officially' off plan.

This is a support forum guys, and I would not have been able to get through this diet without all of the lovely people who post on here and make everything such a positive experience. Please let's take the original post as it was meant and stop the arguing

 

[goodlard]

I haven't been here long enough to send private messages yet, Pandora, but I did just want to say that I hope you didn't think my most recent post was my way of telling you that you were being judgemental or spiteful, because that certainly was not my intention. What I, inarticulately, was trying to say is that everyone here probably gets grief from one source or another about their decision to do a VLCD, so we all need to be nice to each other. I sincerely hope you didn't think I was singling *you* out, and saying *you* shouldn't talk about others. It was a complete generalisation that we should all respect each other's choices.

Don't worry - it's a storm in a teacup. It'll blow over.

 

[pandorasinbox]

Thanks ladies - I swear to God I don't have a nasty bone in my body and nothing I've said here, not one post, was meant that way. I admit the tone in my original post was probably a little frustrated, but wasn't meant to be nasty or judgemental. x

 

[mollydog1308]

This is the problem with the internet, Becca. No tone of voice! If this were spoken people would have heard concern rather than anger or judgement.

Its the same with social network sites and texting. I am involved in the running of a club my daughter goes to and the best way to contact many people at once is text or facebook message. So many times I hear the girls falling out over something that has been commented on FB or in a text.
A lot of thought has to go in to wording everything as there is always someone who reads it the wrong way and questions it. I only ever have the best interests of everyone at heart and put a lot of time and effort to the club but one stray comment makes me wonder why I bother.

Anyone, lets move on everyone and here's to a successful weigh in to each and every one of us.

M x

 

[girlygirl1]

I simply meant it as pandora has twice now in this thread told me that she thinks I shouldnt be on this diet. Surely that is my choice? That is all.

I knew that most people would disagree with my post but as this thread was so one sided I thought I would post a different point of view so maybe people could see it from a different angle.

I have also agreed with you about disliking those who brag about loses whilst openly cheating and boozing, that is not in dispute.

I think you'll find that the majority actually AGREE with you. And I don't think I have ever seen an out-and-out bragging cheat post. Rather I think people who have fallen spectacularly from grace are shamefacedly trying to laugh-off their misdemeanours. And why shouldn't they? Should they, to please others, simply run away and hide? Or abandon the diet completely because they are not 'perfect'? They post about slips and blips to share, to ease their consciences, to wipe the slate clean. If they lose weight despite having cheated, well, lucky them!

Nobody sets out to cheat. Nobody wants to do it. VLCDs are expensive and very hard to stick to. The guidelines exist to tell us how the diet works and how to get the best results when following it. But those guidelines are not commands, written in blood. They are simply guidelines. We are all free to do as we wish on any diet. People who have paid hard cash for CD or other VLCD supplies must feel free to use them as they see fit.

I feel no personal resentment whatsoever if someone following my diet plan loses much faster than I do - and by eating more. Even if I or anyone else did feel envy it would be wrong to come on here and post to that effect. As was stated earlier in this thread - some things should remain unspoken.

Others have had their say at length in this thread yet the few who agreed with the original poster are the ones now wishing others would just shut up. That part, but not all, of the original post may have been misunderstood (I have read it several times and must agree that intentionally or otherwise it does sound resentful and judgemental) is one thing but the sentiments expressed have upset many readers and those people, and others, have a right to respond.

(It may be that LL is much 'stricter' than CD. Whether or no, this is not an LL forum! Methods and attitudes employed there are unlikely to be welcomed by Cambridge dieters lol).

 

[great things]

i find that there are people on here who will deviate on purpose though and feel it is fine. i had a run in with a few people on here who were doing cd and not really doing it cause they were taking advice from a nutritionalist. they were very scathing in their attack when i said that what they're doing isn't CD.

the thing about cd is that it is formulated precisely and has been done by doctors with experience of weight loss. this plan was initially used in hospitals for the obese patients who needed to loose weight asap.

when you mess with the formula that's when you don't get such a good loss, or your body suffers.

• planned time outs are ok, as you're ready for them!
  
• general cheating and boasting is not good for the moral on the board as it encourages people who are feeling weak (and we've all had these moments) to cheat cause the person x cheated and still lost weight!

I think this thread highlights the need to focus on NOT boasting. It is a diet thread at the end of the day. People come on here for support in their moment of weakness they don't really want to see people boasting about their cheats.

 

[great things]

I think you'll find that the majority actually AGREE with you. And I don't think I have ever seen an out-and-out bragging cheat post. Rather I think people who have fallen spectacularly from grace are shamefacedly trying to laugh-off their misdemeanours. And why shouldn't they? Should they, to please others, simply run away and hide? Or abandon the diet completely because they are not 'perfect'? They post about slips and blips to share, to ease their consciences, to wipe the slate clean. If they lose weight despite having cheated, well, lucky them!

Nobody sets out to cheat. Nobody wants to do it. VLCDs are expensive and very hard to stick to. The guidelines exist to tell us how the diet works and how to get the best results when following it. But those guidelines are not commands, written in blood. They are simply guidelines. We are all free to do as we wish on any diet. People who have paid hard cash for CD or other VLCD supplies must feel free to use them as they see fit.

I feel no personal resentment whatsoever if someone following my diet plan loses much faster than I do - and by eating more. Even if I or anyone else did feel envy it would be wrong to come on here and post to that effect. As was stated earlier in this thread - some things should remain unspoken.

Others have had their say at length in this thread yet the few who agreed with the original poster are the ones now wishing others would just shut up. That part, but not all, of the original post may have been misunderstood (I have read it several times and must agree that intentionally or otherwise it does sound resentful and judgemental) is one thing but the sentiments expressed have upset many readers and those people, and others, have a right to respond.

(It may be that LL is much 'stricter' than CD. Whether or no, this is not an LL forum! Methods and attitudes employed there are unlikely to be welcomed by Cambridge dieters lol).

remember this thread?

http://www.minimins.com/cambridge-diet-forum/227883-ss-plus.html#post3975890

people are not sticking to plan, deviating and boasting! this is what we mean. people can and will read this and think, well if that's what they're doing then i can do it too. IT IS NOT A CD PLAN!

 

[great things]

Completely off topic here, but has anyone ever experienced leg cramps on this diet?

probably lack of salt

 

[pandorasinbox]

Your own post in that thread great things just linked, girlygirl1...

Once you start to tamper with the diet, decrease this, increase that, cut calories and fats, you are, as an earlier poster stated, NOT doing Cambridge as it is intended to be followed.

This is part of my argument, just phrased better.

I've read my first post back and, unless you're being very sensitive and not taking into account the beginning of the post, I don't think it sounds judgemental at all. It sounds annoyed at the people who drink alcohol or brag about their cheating.

I think this will be my last post in this thread. I've said all I can say to try and calm people down and salvage my reputation (which has been dragged through the mud umpteen times now). There's nothing more to say.

 

[eaf]

I have read through most of this thread and can't help but chuckle. Why are people getting angry? It's pandoras opinion she can say that right? I do agree with pandora. I wouldn't say I get angry when I read a thread where some one constantly cheats or something but I do feel sad for them. I just think why go through the effort of good days just to be ruined by a bad day coz you don't feel any better after do you. But to be fair if I knew with a little bit of "cheating" I woul still lose weight I probs would cheat. So I can see both sides. So far I haven't cheated and managed to get through mums 50th my birthday and many "meals" out with friends. So it is tricky but you feel so proud afterwards! So everyone is different. But good luck everyone! And stay happy!! Xxxxx

 

[poppygreendog]

Tell me about it, andju. Wished I'd never bothered. :\ I didn't think it would exactly be popular opinion, but frankly I'm wishing I'd never opened my bloody mouth.

Ok - I've gone back to the beginning and re-read all the way through this thread and concede that perhaps for whatever reason I reacted in a 'tetchy' way yesterday. Generally - I agree with all of the original post. No offence meant, hope none taken. Pandorasinbox - I can see what you mean and understand the frustration, I congratulate you on your determination to 100% SS, I guess I'm a bit jealous but I just cant manage it.

PGD - x

 

[pandorasinbox]

Oh - one final thing actually.

Please people stop making comments about the "LL attitude"/"LL blame culture" etc. That had nothing to do with my thinking here. I left LL because I wasn't on board with their way of thinking. I didn't switch diets just to come here and make you guys feel guilty about your eating habits. It's also not very nice to have a go at those people - they're all very nice over on the LL boards and I think they'd be upset if they saw you saying these things!

poppygreen: thank you for that. I hope I didn't offend you either - that wasn't my intention, but apparently I wasn't being clear enough about what I meant. Friends? :bighug:

 

[MaryMZ]

I've never done lighter life though I did think about it before I started Cambridge. What is their way of thinking. I might understand this thread better if I knew. I didn't do it because the nearest centre was too far from me and it was quite a bit dearer than the Cambridge. I didn't get on with the WW diet. But it was me. The leader was really nice and couldn't have been more helpful and the group members were nice too. But I got nowhere with the diet. (My own fault so not blaming the diet for not working.)

 

[poppygreendog]

:bighugandorasinbox - of course!

I agree with what you say about LL too (goodness twice in one day, big friends then lol) I started on LL, the diet works, the people and councillors are great - it was me that couldn't get my head around the whole 'sharing', cognitive behaviour stuff, I'm usually a bit of a 'keep it all to myself' type of chick.

On a totally separate note is anyone else freezing today, I'm nearly 2 litres of water down and shivering!

PGD x

 

[great things]

I've never done lighter life though I did think about it before I started Cambridge. What is their way of thinking. I might understand this thread better if I knew. I didn't do it because the nearest centre was too far from me and it was quite a bit dearer than the Cambridge. I didn't get on with the WW diet. But it was me. The leader was really nice and couldn't have been more helpful and the group members were nice too. But I got nowhere with the diet. (My own fault so not blaming the diet for not working.)

LL - loads of cognative behaviour therapy.

you go to group meetings, get weighed, watch a CBT vid and discuss, my neighbours did this plan and told me about it. they were also made to 'pee on a stick' if there losses were low so that it could be checked that they were in K.

 

[Poppysparkle]

Wow...I've certainly missed out on some great discussion.

I totally get where you are coming from Pandorainbox - I felt this way myself and started reading purely the SS 100% forum, as it annoyed me a bit too. But it was a bit quiet there!! LOL!!

Then I went on holiday in August and was in two minds whether to SS+ 100%. Possibly naturally enough I did have some wine and food extra, but did okay and still lost some weight. However, I've found it impossible to get back to my 100% and now I'm having weekends off. I "got away" with it for a good few weeks, and each weekend I've gradually had a little more but have stuck to SS+ in the week.

This weekend I've eaten crisps, sweets and chocolate, and had a toasty for lunch on Saturday. Now, I did 20 weeks of total 100% on LL, so I have the willpower and know I have it in me to 100% and can do it. I think CD is harder in some ways as it's more flexible, which means that it's easier to fall off the plan - if you are avoiding food completely, then you tend to just not have it. If you can eat protein, then you can very easily add in little bits and pieces, and this gradually gets more and more if you aren't EXTREMELY careful.

There but for the grace of god and all that, because I totally felt like you. I read about people snacking/drinking, and I definitely wasn't in their 'gang'!! I felt pretty smug with myself as I was far stronger than them on my CD journey. Now, I'm in the other gang, and since holidays I am eating/drinking things I shouldn't. However, I've paid for this definitely this week. I feel crap and bloated this week, and a few weeks ago weighed 11lb 5lb. Today I weighed in at 11st 11lb!!

I'm back doing SS+ again, and pretty much struggling this week by feeling SO hungry.

I go away at the weekend for two nights, and I really need to use that opportunity to break my habit of breaking CD at the weekend, even though it will take loads of strength as I'm away from home and in my head that always means lovely food and drink but I've got to remember that it's only one weekend to get through!!

I do understand where you are coming from, but it could be you one day who is having trouble staying totally 100% and who needs some support and understanding. Don't let it make you cross and frustrated. I won't anymore. I won't judge anyone's journey, because I no longer never say never.

I do think it's silly for people to get so cross and threaten to leave the forum. Just ignore the posts that annoy you. They are just people's opinions and they are no more or less important than yours. Just because you think differently, it doesn't mean that everyone should think the same. I had to remind myself personally of this a lot!! LOL!!

I'm an old hand at VLCDs. I know it's my choice and if I don't focus the weight will continue creeping up. I know it's just food, and I know tomorrow is another day. Some of this thread has definitnely helped me to realise that my choice affects my result and just because I'm now a size 12 doesn't mean that I can start messing about because I look normal. It's helped put some stuff in perspective.

Oh, and I don't think your reputation has been dragged down in any way. But as I think you have said, they are your issues and possibly something that didn't need to be said - what I mean is, that you got it off your chest to make you feel less frustrated, but then you were guaranteed to be in for a whole heap more frustration because there were going to be people that were offended by being classed as 'one of these people that come on and boast, etc, etc' - sorry if this wasn't you that said this personally, but it was going to be said by someone by this thread being posted and there to let people vent on both sides. I know that if I get frustrated or something is swaying me off course, I'm just going to click off it and go find something else that is more on my wavelength at that moment in time.

Everyone is human, everyone has their own opinions. If you get wound up, they are your issues that are making you wound up! You can choose to smile and pat yourself on the back, or sit and seethe.

Anyway, I'm off now to continue to sit and put all my concentration into not eating or thinking about red wine!! LOL!!

 

[Poppysparkle]

LL - loads of cognative behaviour therapy.

you go to group meetings, get weighed, watch a CBT vid and discuss, my neighbours did this plan and told me about it. they were also made to 'pee on a stick' if there losses were low so that it could be checked that they were in K.

LOL!!! :8855::8855:That makes LL sound like a prison regime!! I love LL and would have done it again in a heartbeat if I could have afforded it. I did get some things out of the group sessions, but at other times it annoyed me. Whatever. I was very successful though and lost 6 stone. I was never 'made to pee on a stick'!

I do prefer CD in lots of ways, but it's definitely harder to be totally 100%!! Although it's also better not to have that fear about eating again...pros and cons, but LL isn't the bad guy it's sometimes portrayed to be on CD forums!

 

[lauren-1986]

I tried LL and lasted all of 2 weeks, I did not want to have to pee on a stick to let the counsellor know I was in ketosis. And I also certainly didn't want to share my issues with a group! I left quite promptly - but didn;t start CD for about 4 months.

 

[girlygirl1]

Wow...I've certainly missed out on some great discussion.

I totally get where you are coming from Pandorainbox - I felt this way myself and started reading purely the SS 100% forum, as it annoyed me a bit too. But it was a bit quiet there!! LOL!!

Then I went on holiday in August and was in two minds whether to SS+ 100%. Possibly naturally enough I did have some wine and food extra, but did okay and still lost some weight. However, I've found it impossible to get back to my 100% and now I'm having weekends off. I "got away" with it for a good few weeks, and each weekend I've gradually had a little more but have stuck to SS+ in the week.

This weekend I've eaten crisps, sweets and chocolate, and had a toasty for lunch on Saturday. Now, I did 20 weeks of total 100% on LL, so I have the willpower and know I have it in me to 100% and can do it. I think CD is harder in some ways as it's more flexible, which means that it's easier to fall off the plan - if you are avoiding food completely, then you tend to just not have it. If you can eat protein, then you can very easily add in little bits and pieces, and this gradually gets more and more if you aren't EXTREMELY careful.

There but for the grace of god and all that, because I totally felt like you. I read about people snacking/drinking, and I definitely wasn't in their 'gang'!! I felt pretty smug with myself as I was far stronger than them on my CD journey. Now, I'm in the other gang, and since holidays I am eating/drinking things I shouldn't. However, I've paid for this definitely this week. I feel crap and bloated this week, and a few weeks ago weighed 11lb 5lb. Today I weighed in at 11st 11lb!!

I'm back doing SS+ again, and pretty much struggling this week by feeling SO hungry.

I go away at the weekend for two nights, and I really need to use that opportunity to break my habit of breaking CD at the weekend, even though it will take loads of strength as I'm away from home and in my head that always means lovely food and drink but I've got to remember that it's only one weekend to get through!!

I do understand where you are coming from, but it could be you one day who is having trouble staying totally 100% and who needs some support and understanding. Don't let it make you cross and frustrated. I won't anymore. I won't judge anyone's journey, because I no longer never say never.

I do think it's silly for people to get so cross and threaten to leave the forum. Just ignore the posts that annoy you. They are just people's opinions and they are no more or less important than yours. Just because you think differently, it doesn't mean that everyone should think the same. I had to remind myself personally of this a lot!! LOL!!

I'm an old hand at VLCDs. I know it's my choice and if I don't focus the weight will continue creeping up. I know it's just food, and I know tomorrow is another day. Some of this thread has definitnely helped me to realise that my choice affects my result and just because I'm now a size 12 doesn't mean that I can start messing about because I look normal. It's helped put some stuff in perspective.

Oh, and I don't think your reputation has been dragged down in any way. But as I think you have said, they are your issues and possibly something that didn't need to be said - what I mean is, that you got it off your chest to make you feel less frustrated, but then you were guaranteed to be in for a whole heap more frustration because there were going to be people that were offended by being classed as 'one of these people that come on and boast, etc, etc' - sorry if this wasn't you that said this personally, but it was going to be said by someone by this thread being posted and there to let people vent on both sides. I know that if I get frustrated or something is swaying me off course, I'm just going to click off it and go find something else that is more on my wavelength at that moment in time.

Everyone is human, everyone has their own opinions. If you get wound up, they are your issues that are making you wound up! You can choose to smile and pat yourself on the back, or sit and seethe.

Anyway, I'm off now to continue to sit and put all my concentration into not eating or thinking about red wine!! LOL!!

BRAVO. Excellent post, sympathetic and fair, that shows how you, yourself felt on both sides of the fence, so to speak.

Yes, the 100% threads on all VLCDs tend to be rather quiet. No guesses as to why this may be so...

When I commented, as quoted by Pandora above, that to do this or that was 'not' doing Cambridge, it was purely for information. It was not a judgement on anyone. Atkins recently came under (non malicious) fire because it appeared to observers of the Atkins thread that many seemed to be drinking large amounts of alcohol. I pointed-out that those drinking to excess on Atkins were doing so off-plan; that this was not a part of the official guidelines. There was no judgement in my comments on either diet - simply statements of the official wisdom pertaining to each.

I repeat the old phrase, 'judge not, lest ye be judged'. The one about not casting stones is just as apt. The 100% VLCD-er of today can at any time, day or night, suddenly become the frantic can't-help-myself binger of tomorrow - by eating just one mouthful of 'illicit' food. It is that simple; the guilt and reawakened carb cravings can be unstoppable. There but for the grace of God, indeed.

Well said, once again.

 

[sapphirestara]

I can't help but think that maybe everyone's got a bit upset and strung out because we are on 400 (-/+) calories a day and all feeling a bit loopy now the weathers a bit chillier?? Maybe we should all 30 day shred to warm up and enjoy some endorphins!!!!!!!

Love you all!!!!!!!! Xxxxxxxxxxx