Bingeing... Why?!!?

[A_Shrinking_Violet]

More recently I've been reading a book by Martha Beck (sorry to go on about this but it really is working for me) called the 4 Day Win. She points out that to our pre-historic ansecstors lack of food and increased activity were indicators of some sort of disaster. At the most primitive levels of our brain we respond to going on a diet and upping the exercise rate as BAD. The hunter gatherer would then EAT in these circumstances as goodness knows where the next meal was coming from, and the instinct over rides anything else. So its our hunter gatherer part reacting to stress.

Thanks for that post Micci, it makes a lot of sense. Now I can just blame my prehistoric instincts for my overeating

Joking aside though, my overeating is usually a reaction to my diet. Although Weight Watchers is a healthy, balanced, flexible plan, not one of the really restrictive ones, I do sometimes want to rebel against it. Usually on a weekend, after my weigh-in! The 'not knowing where the next meal is coming from' thing in my brain is I think part of why I do it. Also, on a Friday and Saturday the next weigh-in is so far away that part of me thinks I can do what I want. It's how to stop binging from being what I want though!

 

[krupskaya]

Thanks for that post Micci, it makes a lot of sense. Now I can just blame my prehistoric instincts for my overeating

Joking aside though, my overeating is usually a reaction to my diet. Although Weight Watchers is a healthy, balanced, flexible plan, not one of the really restrictive ones, I do sometimes want to rebel against it. Usually on a weekend, after my weigh-in! The 'not knowing where the next meal is coming from' thing in my brain is I think part of why I do it. Also, on a Friday and Saturday the next weigh-in is so far away that part of me thinks I can do what I want. It's how to stop binging from being what I want though!

Oh Shrinking Violet, I can so identify! I did the same thing this week. I was well on plan (SW) till weigh in and lost 2lbs on wednesday. All hell broke loose after that though and much pigging out was had all through wednesday and thursday. I found myself up at 2am this morning, barely awake and gobbling down dry breakfast cereal straight from the packet. WTF? I think it's a feeling of deprivation/rebelliousness or whatever I don't know. Back on track now but I'm going to have to be so careful for the rest of the week just to scrape a maintain. I really can't keep doing this. I'm just going to have to STOP. It's getting really silly following this binge/starve cycle I've gotten into. Enough! I'm drawing a line. And just to prove it, here it is ___________________________________ Hope all you other peeps are doing well. Kx

 

[Aline]

Micci,
I'm not at an ideal balance, but I'm being more sensible these last few days so I'm optimistic

Shrinking_Violet,
I see what you mean and I think many people around here can relate. The how to stop is the harder part but you'll find a way that works for you. Don't give up from searching your way

Krupskaya,
It's so easy to get into the starve/binge cycle, isn't it? I also think we always must draw a line and focus on present and future. We can't delete ous past but we surely can decide and create our future

xx

 

[Micci]

Oh loads and loads of censored words

I had written loads and loads with responses to everyone individually and lost it. No time now to do it again, the shops and a visit to the Natural History Museum are calling me very loudly so I'll send big hugs - anyone remember the tele tubbies? - to everyone here and try and catch up properly later. Stay strong and love yourselves - wobbly bits and all

micci xxx

 

[Aline]

Oh loads and loads of censored words

I had written loads and loads with responses to everyone individually and lost it. No time now to do it again, the shops and a visit to the Natural History Museum are calling me very loudly so I'll send big hugs - anyone remember the tele tubbies? - to everyone here and try and catch up properly later. Stay strong and love yourselves - wobbly bits and all

micci xxx

Oh Micci, once in a while I also used to lost everything I wrote, now I just copy my posts before submit the post just in case

I still remember the Natural History Museum. I visited it 9 years ago when I was in London. Is it an educational visit that you're doing with your children? If so have fun

And of course I remember tele tubbies, hehe.

I need to go shopping today as well, need to buy some dossiers and photocopy some reading material.

Have all a nice saturday!

 

[Micci]

Totally totally OT - the new dinosaur exhinition at the NHM is very good but London Transport are total crap atm. Fro 2 years we've has disruptions every weekend, mostly on Sundays but now at least half the service is out all weekend and getting about is almost impossible. We took a really roundabout route complicated by the fact that my son is terrified of heights and there are a lot of steep stairs and escalators at most of the connections. A journey of just over an hour took nearly three.

I'll try to recap my earlier post again.

Here are hugs and very warm wishes to everyone struggling right now. Lesley and Amanda are going on holiday. Sometimes having a goal doesn't make it any easier does it? Just makes it more stressful and more of an 'I must' rather than an 'I choose to' situation. I hope you can relax and enjoy yourselves despite the previous lack of focus.

Pomooky, Mandy, Krupskaya, TJ, Shrinking Violet, I'm sorry that it feels out of control still - or that's what I'm getting from your posts. I was thinking specifically about what Shrinking Violet and Krupskaya posted about eating lots after WI and the weekend following.

You've both lost a considerable amount now (congratulations) and I'm wondering if part of yourselves are worried about or are unwilling to change? Just a thought, but we've talked a bit here before about there being some benefit to us at some level in being overweight. If this doesn't ring bells tell me to butt out now.

Pomooky and Aline, thanks for sharing what it is like to have difficulties with emotional eating yet look 'normal' from the outside. I hadn't thought about this at all previously. Now, like Pomooky, I look at people around me and wonder ... I also wonder if they might be anyone I see posting here

Sorry about not getting to everyone personally, its getting hard to do answers like this on this thread.

Micci xxx

 

[Pomooky125]

Hi Everyone

Well, I'm a bit on and off at the mo. I've looked on my calendar and out of 20 days I have binged on 5 - that's definitely better than before. Trouble is just one binge can be a kilo gained (how is this? How much do 10 biscuits weigh anyway?).

Today ok again. I have snacked a lot but on good stuff. Just polished off strawberries and Total yoghurt. After bingeing and then eating normally my weight has STS so there is still hope.

It's so much hard work isn't it? Struggling not to give in instead of using that energy for something useful.

Micci, you are always out and about and up to something, in spite of your problems, I really admire that. I am sooo lazy and don't make much of an effort to go anywhere. Yeah the transport down there is horrific - I lived there for a couple of years and spent more time travelling than working!

Aline - hope you're relaxing this weekend in between your work. You are dead right about thinking of the future. I need to stop wallowing in past events and things I should have said/done etc. and enjoy the present. (It's this mindful thing - I can't quite get the hang of it - my mind is full of food!).

Krupskaya - I have never starved (unthinkable!) but used to control my diet rigidly with the same bread, same cheese etc. all at the same time and this made up for my binges.

Well, keep posting, it's good to be in tune with such lovely people (or out of tune!?)

Pomooky XX

 

[Aline]

Micci,
That was a big journey, wow.
But I'm sure your son found it worth Kids love dinossaurs. Hope you're having a nice weekend overall.
xx

Pomooky,
I've been binging around twice a week (wich translates into 5-6 binges every 20 days as well). It is a lot more than my usual two binges per month, although the binges aren't as awful as they were in the past so I also don't gain a lot (although I gained a bit).
I won't lie, it really is an hard work to struggle and not give in, but it is worth it

My weekend isn't going the way I planned. Me and boyfriend planned to spend some time together but he had an important call from work and had to go I think that's what started today's binge... I realise it's hard for me to deal with routine changes, plan changes... well changes in general actually.

xx

 

[Micci]

Hi,

Pomooky, yes it does seem very unfair how quickly the kilos go on as opposed to coming off I can only suppose that its not just day to day food+exercise=how much we weigh but its more cumulative. But over how long I don't know. Body chemistry like this interests me, but I think if I ever saw the real science of it I'd be over awed and out of my depth. Like my dabbling in lots of things, I can only take it on a lay person's level. Fair enough, that's what I am.

Its really good that your binging has decreased, you will lose what you want to I am sure. I can't remember if you ever said how old your boy is? Do you feel OK to leave him in the evenings? Maybe some more interesting and enjoyable activities for you would be a good thing. Do you work? If you do, is it enjoyable?

My new theme is that more joy in our lives is essential and it helps weight loss too. I'm tentatively looking for more enjoyable exercise. In the past I was passionate about Martial Arts. I did a Philipino art and kick boxing plus weight training and swimming and cycling. Before I started this I was fat but with no dieting at all, just enjoying what I was doing I became a very fit size 16 but looked less as I was toned and muscular.

No way could I go back to that, and maybe my emotional state doesn't need me to be learning these skills again. So I'm wondering about dance and am looking at (oh snigger snigger, oh yes, this is me now) dance and yoga classes for older people near me and think I would enjoy that.

Aline, I'm wondering about your concept of mindfulness and wonder if what I am now mostly achieving is what you mean by it.

For example, when I am clearing up and come across a delicacy I didn't expect to see I would have had difficulties in not eating it there and then. Now, I can often go into a part of my mind that sort of overlooks what I am doing. 'Ah', I think to myself, 'that is the hunter gatherer part of my brain springing into action. Its just instinct and I don't really need the surprise biscuits/chocolate/whatever.'

Is that the sort of thing you mean?

Have a good Sunday everyone.

Micci in rainy London

 

[Aline]

Aline, I'm wondering about your concept of mindfulness and wonder if what I am now mostly achieving is what you mean by it.

For example, when I am clearing up and come across a delicacy I didn't expect to see I would have had difficulties in not eating it there and then. Now, I can often go into a part of my mind that sort of overlooks what I am doing. 'Ah', I think to myself, 'that is the hunter gatherer part of my brain springing into action. Its just instinct and I don't really need the surprise biscuits/chocolate/whatever.'

Is that the sort of thing you mean?

Have a good Sunday everyone.

Micci in rainy London

Micci,

The situation you described includes several principles of mindfullness
You became aware of the present moment and you accepted in a non judgemental way the fact that you felt an impulse to eat those foods. However, instead of judging yourself and/or eat it you accepeted your feelings, sensations and thoughts by themselves and then you let them go. You didn't act on you sensations and feelings, instead you became aware of them and let them go in peace.

In my course I had a few classes about ACT (acceptance and commitment therapy), wich is a form of mindfulness:

Acceptance and commitment therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But there are several forms of mindfulness, so you may want to discover wich form works best for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindfulness_(psychology)

xx

 

[Micci]

Dammit, its accidentally pressing the backspace button that does it - lose my posts I mean.

Aline, you post links to most interesting pages that highlight how superficial my knowledge is of what you are studying. You'd find me boring in real life - I'd constantly be asking questions.

So, this acceptance. I'm wondering how the skills are learnt, what happens in a therapy session in ACT. I wonder if there is a whole blog ring of people in therapy who post about their experiences. I would find that fascinating. And ... mindfulness is something I most associate with Buddhism. Do you know if its the same concept? It does sound the same..... ah yes, I'm reading further on the second page and that is indeed where it came from.

btw, the link wasn't quite right, it should have been

Mindfulness (psychology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But to stop trying to talk psychology, lets get more mundane and back to every day concerns.

How is everyone here coping tonight? I overdid it slightly today, the pudding I made was sooooo nice but I certainly wouldn't call it a binge.

Goodnight all

Micci xxx

 

[Micci]

Of course, I'm now googling how to learn mindfulness and found this:
Learn Mindfulness Meditation

It reminds me of a book I read about a woman who went to learn to meditate with monks in Thailand. I think one thing she was doing was called Vissipana and they were all eating and walking and doing everything very slowly with full attention.

See what it says about mindful eating. Gosh, if I ate like that all the time I'd be so skinny as I'd either have a meal take all day or have to leave a lot to get anything done.

 

[Aline]

Micci,
My knowledge is superficial as well, I'm not expert in nothing. I study a bit from everything and I'm always learning as well

I only had a few classes about ACT (acceptance and commitment therapy) and it was mostly theory, but we also used it with eating We all used it while eating ONE raisin (it lasted probably 5 minutes to eat a single tiny raisin), it was a good train and as the time goes I believe it becomes quicker. The more we practive the more efective/fast we do things. Plus, in real life it's already great if we can use a few of mindfull eating principles.

Midfullness is related to Buddhism, however the first is more scientific than the second. But yes, the core principles are the same.
And thank you for correcting the link for me

How is everyone else?

I wish a great week for all of you

xx

 

[A_Shrinking_Violet]

my son is terrified of heights and there are a lot of steep stairs and escalators at most of the connections.

(...)

Pomooky, Mandy, Krupskaya, TJ, Shrinking Violet, I'm sorry that it feels out of control still - or that's what I'm getting from your posts. I was thinking specifically about what Shrinking Violet and Krupskaya posted about eating lots after WI and the weekend following.

You've both lost a considerable amount now (congratulations) and I'm wondering if part of yourselves are worried about or are unwilling to change? Just a thought, but we've talked a bit here before about there being some benefit to us at some level in being overweight. If this doesn't ring bells tell me to butt out now.

Thanks Micci When I first read what you say there about being unwilling to change, my instant reaction was no, I'm really happy to be losing weight. Thinking about it though, it does make sense what you say - I'm more than willing to change my size, but maybe not so willing to change my eating habits!

I do feel in control at the moment though - it's a much better feeling than binging gives, I just need to remember that x

I know how your son feels with the Underground. I don't go to London often, and find the escalators quite daunting when I do!

 

[Pomooky125]

Micci, Awgh! I keep losing posts too! My last one was really negative so I am quite pleased really.

The mindfulness thing is really interesting. I sometimes eat so fast I can hardly cope with it physically. I can accept these feelings but can't let them go Aline, I have to act/eat on them.

The whole thing of buddism/midfulness is really interesting however I don't think it's compatible with my rush around, grasshopper head. I am always planning the next thing so I never get anywhere. I don't know if it's possible to train your brain to "let go"; I sure wish I could.

Back down in reality land, I am doing ok and haven't binged for a few days. I am trying not to ban any foods (before it was bread, alcohol etc) as I feel deprived (sad!). I've been having a glass of wine each night and instead of Ryvitas I have a small rye roll. This makes me feel like a "normal" person.

The thing is, thin people eat everything don't they? They just don't eat 10 of it.

So, hope your Mondays were better than mine (my beloved 13 year old lost his key again - 3rd time - and I had a minor strop, then felt nervous all day. When I got home he had left the spare one in the lock inside so I couldn't get in!). Boys, who'd have them?

Pomooky XX

 

[Micci]

I know how your son feels with the Underground. I don't go to London often, and find the escalators quite daunting when I do!

Awww, I'll hold your hand next time

Well done for all the rest of your determination and all your losses so far.

 

[Micci]

Hi Pomooky,

it is interesting isn't it? I'm fascinated by minds. Maybe the thing to do with the thoughts is when accepting them you need to stay detatched, to sort of look at yourself having the thoughts. That's what I do, its hard to explain but I reckon you'd need to practise on less emotive subjects first. When I did that exercise with the two aspects of my personality that was the point of change, but I've done this sort of thing before.

Have you any experience of anything like this? Maybe a meditation CD could be a good start - sorry to say this Aline but I'm deferring to you as expert here. did you look at the link I posted about achieving mindfulness? It does look good to me and suggests practicing mindfulness with something you enjoy:

'''''
Doing what you love to do with mindfulness can be a good start for your awareness and self-remembering practice.

1. Choose one of your favourite activities.
2. Make a decision to give this activity your full mindful attention.
3. Start slowly and mindfully. Stay relaxed and give this activity your full attention.
4. When your attention wanders, gently come back to your state of full awareness of what you are doing.
5. When tension rises, relax and smile to yourself.
6. When you finish you period of mindfulness training, pause for a few moments and reflect on your experience.

Remember, that any activity can be a practice for developing your concentration and mindfulness. It is not the activity that determines the quality of mental awareness, but our energy of mindfulness we give this activity.


Well done for the not binging. I agree with you totally about seeing thin people eat anything. Its a matter of getting into an automatic compensation I guess - like I had a lot of nice pudding yesterday and realised I should not have a heavy supper. At some level I like to imagine that this would involve less planning, it would just happen automatically with a healthy relationship with food. Or so I like to imagine.

Sorry about the bold typeface, I can't get rid of it.

I hope you and your boy are having a more realxed evening after all the angst.

 

[Aline]

A_Shrinking_Violet,
Glad to know you're feeling in control What do you think it is different now that may help you control emotional eating? Meal planning, new activities, work/social changes...?
Keep up the great job

Pomooky,
Mindfulness needs a lot of practice. I also lose my patience sometimes And we have so many things on our mind (work, essays, future incertitude, family, etc etc) the last thing we worry about is eating with total awareness.
Well done for staying away from binges.
I'm struggling at the moment and I'm always saying "tomorrow will be better" and then tomorrow doen't come. I haven't been binging like crazy but I'm not doing well either. Still loking for a balance...

xx

 

[Aline]

Micci,
What I learnt is basically what was already posted on this thread and, by this time, you sound more expert than me. You're very good at wording and explaining The site you shared is very usefull because it is concrete. It says how to do instead of only talking the theory

xx

 

[A_Shrinking_Violet]

Awww, I'll hold your hand next time

Well done for all the rest of your determination and all your losses so far.

Hehe, thank you

A_Shrinking_Violet,
Glad to know you're feeling in control What do you think it is different now that may help you control emotional eating? Meal planning, new activities, work/social changes...?
Keep up the great job

It's just some of the mindfulness that has been mentioned here. Reminding myself that it feels so much better to eat well and lose weight than it does to binge. Also that I can repeat my past successes, and lose more

Micci, it does seem like thin people eat everything and don't have to think about it! Wish I could do that Maybe it only seems that way though?

xxx