SlimmingKitchen
Gold Member
I love reading your weight loss diary 
its fab. xxxx
its fab. xxxx
Here i am! *waves* - Brewin'a'Baby & Staying Slim! 2011 xx
- Thread starter Littleslimmingbee
- Start date
Littleslimmingbee
Gold Member
hi everyone *waves*
I missed this weeks WI as i had a works meeting (grr) but although my food is crap and im deffinatly getting bigger around my tummy i dont feel 'bigger' anywhere else?
i ended up back in hospital again yesterday, id gone into work with a sore throat but otherwise felt fine.. two hours later i started throwing up (which as id taken my anti sickness tabs shouldnt have happened) then a rash came up over my face and eyes.. everything went blury and i got really dizzy.. next thing i know im led down on a mat in the kitchen shaking and im a bit out of it.. two mums who are doctors are taking my pulse and i can hear my boss on the phone to the ambulance peoples..
by the time i got to hospital i was alot better, just very tired and nautious. My pulse was regular but weak and my blood sugar was really low.. still not really sure what happened.. im really flemmy and stuffy and a bit headachey..
grrrrr LOL
xx
I missed this weeks WI as i had a works meeting (grr) but although my food is crap and im deffinatly getting bigger around my tummy i dont feel 'bigger' anywhere else?
i ended up back in hospital again yesterday, id gone into work with a sore throat but otherwise felt fine.. two hours later i started throwing up (which as id taken my anti sickness tabs shouldnt have happened) then a rash came up over my face and eyes.. everything went blury and i got really dizzy.. next thing i know im led down on a mat in the kitchen shaking and im a bit out of it.. two mums who are doctors are taking my pulse and i can hear my boss on the phone to the ambulance peoples..
by the time i got to hospital i was alot better, just very tired and nautious. My pulse was regular but weak and my blood sugar was really low.. still not really sure what happened.. im really flemmy and stuffy and a bit headachey..
grrrrr LOL
xx
Littleslimmingbee
Gold Member
Oh my goodness! Can you believe i was BUMPED to the 6th page! Shameful- that means iv been super crappy at keeping you all up to date and as a result dropped waaaaaay behind! i feel very bad, iv never been bumped past 1st page, cos im a chatterbox LOL
So *wave* and appologies. Super crap i know. Slap my wrists.. go on.
Even more crappy.. iv just written you out a massive update and then i knocked my comp and it turned off. *******.
Hope your all keeping well. Update on me.
Im getting fatter by the day. well, not fat. just round.. same thing. Im just over 12 weeks now, which means the second tri is in sight.. HORAH! sickness is better, lots better.. but the nausia and tiredness is killing me off. Iv been piss poor at sticking to sw.. and am greatful to report im up to 10st 5.. which isnt great, but as i called target at 10.1.. and havnt followed the plan at all since the day i found out.. so week 4.. i think thats not bad for almost 9 weeks of pure ****. I mean complete ****. Dominoes, pizza hut, meals out, fish and chips, mcdonalds (this im most ashamed of, as i hadnt been to mc'ds in over two and a half years and then ate TWO big macs in a week- now i cant stand the site again) and my favourite.. KEBAB AND CHEESEY CHIPS. oh my lord, i shouldnt rub it in, all this food porn i know.. but i hadnt visited Frank the kebab man since before my best friend got pregnant. Thats well over a year.Iv missed him, and god.. were those cheesechips good.
Anyways, the point of this is. Whilst id hoped not to gain anything during first tri.. im greatful i havnt packed it on, and if anything should be greatful i was sick enough to keep it off. even though that bit was ****.
So iv been making some real half arsed attempts the last week or so to stick to plan, i get through breakfast and then it falls apart. The thing is, il bring myself somthing in for dinner, and then i look at it, and im like.. i cant eat that. I end up at the shop wandering around aimlessly untill i come out with up to tenners worth of food i liked the look of. For example.. tuesdays lunch: a chicken cesear wrap, a bag of sharwoods praw crackers.. some dairylea dunkers and a bottle of lucazade.
I seriously cannot afford this habit, and it not helping the sw front. I WANT to feel healthy, i really really do. I cannot wait to start swimming again, heading to the pool on tuesday after work (if my tiredness allows me, im going to have to force myself i can see) although i better check my size 10 cossie still fits... hadnt thought of that.
Im dedicating myself to sw today, i really want to stick to plan from now on. As best i can of course. Although im going to have to change it around a bit to suit how things are for me at the moment. Let me explain- if its cooked for.. it doesnt matter what it is (unless its bacon, i dont know why.. but i cannot, cannot stand the smell, sight or taste of bacon anymore. gutted.com) i can eat it no problem.. but i cannot cook. the minute im in the kitchen that lump in my throat appears.. and it just gets worse. I gagged the whole way through attempting to cook a stir fry friday night and by the time it was on the plate, i took one biteful and ended up in bed. But this now leaves me with the problem.. joe cant cook. Hence why my diet has consisted of chocolate cereals, takeaways, white bread and .. the odd peice of fruit, should i make it to the supermarket. Which has the same affect on me as the kitchen... so i have to retreat to the 'home' aisle and stare at the cusions till it passes.
SO, i can no longer stomach a whole muller, but i cant save it either.. that freaks me out. Iv had to resort to eating baby yogurts, which of course dont come in fat free. Petit flue to be exact. Can anyone source me the syn value for these, cant be much- its like 3 tea spoons worth.. but when i get a craving for somthing cold and dairy, it does the job.
Il have to try and stick to red and green, as i cant last through the day with only one HEB anymore. I literally find myself starving every hour, and if i dont eat quick.. the severe nausia and sickness kicks in. SO iv been having 3 weetabix - because im so hungry when i wake up that even taking a wrapper off for waiting for the toaster to finish is too long a wait.. but of course this throws the whole allocated HEB out of wack and i refuse to syn a freaking weetabix.. so i picked some alpens up yday and if i do have 3 weetabix in the morn, il ahve 1 alpen to even it out later.
oh could someone also find me a syn value for a standard ice pop, all flavours. I cant get through the day without atleast 2.
il have to just eat carefully, and then assess at the end of the day whats best to class it as, green/red/EE and syn as neccisary.
So today:
2 weetabix, sweetener and some milk. HEB and part HEA
1 banana
think we'l end up at the pub for sunday lunch, so il skip the gravey and go easy on the tatas.. but be skimpy on the meat as although im not sure if il eat again later, as i get full very fast so a big meal like this i might just graze on fruit later.. if i do end up having somthing else i can syn the meat and have a green day and have a HEB.. or it can be EE and il stick to fruit depending on how it panns out.
I hate being so 'go with the flow' with it, but i genuinly have no idea how the day will pann out so i have to be more relaxed with it.
hope my rambeling has made sence!!
Was good catching up with you all)
xox
So *wave* and appologies. Super crap i know. Slap my wrists.. go on.
Even more crappy.. iv just written you out a massive update and then i knocked my comp and it turned off. *******.
Hope your all keeping well. Update on me.
Im getting fatter by the day. well, not fat. just round.. same thing. Im just over 12 weeks now, which means the second tri is in sight.. HORAH! sickness is better, lots better.. but the nausia and tiredness is killing me off. Iv been piss poor at sticking to sw.. and am greatful to report im up to 10st 5.. which isnt great, but as i called target at 10.1.. and havnt followed the plan at all since the day i found out.. so week 4.. i think thats not bad for almost 9 weeks of pure ****. I mean complete ****. Dominoes, pizza hut, meals out, fish and chips, mcdonalds (this im most ashamed of, as i hadnt been to mc'ds in over two and a half years and then ate TWO big macs in a week- now i cant stand the site again) and my favourite.. KEBAB AND CHEESEY CHIPS. oh my lord, i shouldnt rub it in, all this food porn i know.. but i hadnt visited Frank the kebab man since before my best friend got pregnant. Thats well over a year.
Iv missed him, and god.. were those cheesechips good. Anyways, the point of this is. Whilst id hoped not to gain anything during first tri.. im greatful i havnt packed it on, and if anything should be greatful i was sick enough to keep it off. even though that bit was ****.
So iv been making some real half arsed attempts the last week or so to stick to plan, i get through breakfast and then it falls apart. The thing is, il bring myself somthing in for dinner, and then i look at it, and im like.. i cant eat that. I end up at the shop wandering around aimlessly untill i come out with up to tenners worth of food i liked the look of. For example.. tuesdays lunch: a chicken cesear wrap, a bag of sharwoods praw crackers.. some dairylea dunkers and a bottle of lucazade.
I seriously cannot afford this habit, and it not helping the sw front. I WANT to feel healthy, i really really do. I cannot wait to start swimming again, heading to the pool on tuesday after work (if my tiredness allows me, im going to have to force myself i can see) although i better check my size 10 cossie still fits...
hadnt thought of that. Im dedicating myself to sw today, i really want to stick to plan from now on. As best i can of course. Although im going to have to change it around a bit to suit how things are for me at the moment. Let me explain- if its cooked for.. it doesnt matter what it is (unless its bacon, i dont know why.. but i cannot, cannot stand the smell, sight or taste of bacon anymore. gutted.com) i can eat it no problem.. but i cannot cook. the minute im in the kitchen that lump in my throat appears.. and it just gets worse. I gagged the whole way through attempting to cook a stir fry friday night and by the time it was on the plate, i took one biteful and ended up in bed. But this now leaves me with the problem.. joe cant cook. Hence why my diet has consisted of chocolate cereals, takeaways, white bread and .. the odd peice of fruit, should i make it to the supermarket. Which has the same affect on me as the kitchen... so i have to retreat to the 'home' aisle and stare at the cusions till it passes.
SO, i can no longer stomach a whole muller, but i cant save it either.. that freaks me out. Iv had to resort to eating baby yogurts, which of course dont come in fat free. Petit flue to be exact. Can anyone source me the syn value for these, cant be much- its like 3 tea spoons worth.. but when i get a craving for somthing cold and dairy, it does the job.
Il have to try and stick to red and green, as i cant last through the day with only one HEB anymore. I literally find myself starving every hour, and if i dont eat quick.. the severe nausia and sickness kicks in. SO iv been having 3 weetabix - because im so hungry when i wake up that even taking a wrapper off for waiting for the toaster to finish is too long a wait.. but of course this throws the whole allocated HEB out of wack and i refuse to syn a freaking weetabix.. so i picked some alpens up yday and if i do have 3 weetabix in the morn, il ahve 1 alpen to even it out later.
oh could someone also find me a syn value for a standard ice pop, all flavours. I cant get through the day without atleast 2.
il have to just eat carefully, and then assess at the end of the day whats best to class it as, green/red/EE and syn as neccisary.
So today:
2 weetabix, sweetener and some milk. HEB and part HEA
1 banana
think we'l end up at the pub for sunday lunch, so il skip the gravey and go easy on the tatas.. but be skimpy on the meat as although im not sure if il eat again later, as i get full very fast so a big meal like this i might just graze on fruit later.. if i do end up having somthing else i can syn the meat and have a green day and have a HEB.. or it can be EE and il stick to fruit depending on how it panns out.
I hate being so 'go with the flow' with it, but i genuinly have no idea how the day will pann out so i have to be more relaxed with it.
hope my rambeling has made sence!!
Was good catching up with you all
) xox
Spanx
Pea on legs!
Hi Fern and congratulations on your pregnancy!
I think you should just eat what your body is telling you to eat in the first 3 months - hopefully it will settle down after about 14 weeks and you can eat more healthily then!
I had been a veggie for 15 years when I got pregnant and then one day, in about week 10, I was walking past burger king and just HAD to go in and eat a whopper! I then ate red meat every day for 2 weeks before I went off it completely and on to cheese and potato pie!
Those cravings can be a real!!
I think you should just eat what your body is telling you to eat in the first 3 months - hopefully it will settle down after about 14 weeks and you can eat more healthily then!
I had been a veggie for 15 years when I got pregnant and then one day, in about week 10, I was walking past burger king and just HAD to go in and eat a whopper! I then ate red meat every day for 2 weeks before I went off it completely and on to cheese and potato pie!
Those cravings can be a real
!!
Littleslimmingbee
Gold Member
Aww thanks laura! star.
Spanx that really made me chuckle! its so odd, i thought cravings would be this really strong urge to have it there and then, which it is somtimes, but it doesnt just come on suddenly, its works its way into my mind.. and slowly, slowly its all i can think of. LOL i then create any oppurtunity to get one.. for example, i couldnt just pull over on way to work and get dairylea dunkers, i had to push my fuel gauge to the limit and make sure i got petrol on way to work, so had an excuse lmao.
Okay, nearly had a wobble. Oh declares he doesnt want a roast anymore.. i decide i need to bake somthing, so went into kitchen and grabbed the fresh pasta i bought yesterday (syns i know) a colmans packet, a tin of tun and some sweetcorn, i bunged it all in a pot and now theres a pasta bake in my oven. Only gagged once, horah.
but then whilst i was cooking i began to gag a little and thought i need to eat, opened the cupboard and saw a kitkat.. nooo i thought, quickly ran to other cupboard and grabbed 2 alpens. phew. 2nd HEB done. bargain. i was a bit shakey there, but thats okay.
so today:
2 weetabix and milk HEB and id say 200mls of milk so about half a HEA
1 banana
some flavoured sugar free water..
2 little pots of fromaige frais (3syns)
2 alpen lights HEB no 2
2 clementines and an apple
now, the pasta bake has 400mls of milk, a colmans shwartz packet (6syns i know that) and fresh pasta (250g) 200g tuna and 200g sweetcorn(free) and a serving of cheese on top per serving .. this serves 4.. so can someone who has a clearer head than i today.. work out synage per portion for me, and incorperate a HEA and the rest of the other HEA in aswell? xxxx gawd.. im gunna really need some help!
Spanx that really made me chuckle! its so odd, i thought cravings would be this really strong urge to have it there and then, which it is somtimes, but it doesnt just come on suddenly, its works its way into my mind.. and slowly, slowly its all i can think of. LOL i then create any oppurtunity to get one.. for example, i couldnt just pull over on way to work and get dairylea dunkers, i had to push my fuel gauge to the limit and make sure i got petrol on way to work, so had an excuse lmao.
Okay, nearly had a wobble. Oh declares he doesnt want a roast anymore.. i decide i need to bake somthing, so went into kitchen and grabbed the fresh pasta i bought yesterday (syns i know) a colmans packet, a tin of tun and some sweetcorn, i bunged it all in a pot and now theres a pasta bake in my oven. Only gagged once, horah.
but then whilst i was cooking i began to gag a little and thought i need to eat, opened the cupboard and saw a kitkat.. nooo i thought, quickly ran to other cupboard and grabbed 2 alpens. phew. 2nd HEB done. bargain. i was a bit shakey there, but thats okay.
so today:
2 weetabix and milk HEB and id say 200mls of milk so about half a HEA
1 banana
some flavoured sugar free water..
2 little pots of fromaige frais (3syns)
2 alpen lights HEB no 2
2 clementines and an apple
now, the pasta bake has 400mls of milk, a colmans shwartz packet (6syns i know that) and fresh pasta (250g) 200g tuna and 200g sweetcorn(free) and a serving of cheese on top per serving .. this serves 4.. so can someone who has a clearer head than i today.. work out synage per portion for me, and incorperate a HEA and the rest of the other HEA in aswell? xxxx gawd.. im gunna really need some help!
Littleslimmingbee
Gold Member
Went swimming after work, .. and am eating MUCH better, but far too much LOL.. i have to eat every hour!
Littleslimmingbee
Gold Member
EURGH, how did i put on another 3.5lbs this week?! its not the baby, the baby weighs like 50p pence! i have tried and i even went swimming.
IM SO upset. Im now 10st 8.5 which is like 8lbs heavier in 3 weeks.
IM SO upset. Im now 10st 8.5 which is like 8lbs heavier in 3 weeks.
bunnylovesalan
Proud Mama :)
I hope you feel better soon xo
Littleslimmingbee
Gold Member
Todays eating: day one: Green day.
2 weetabix HEB some milk part HEA 1 clementine
water
1 petit flue pot, 1.5syns
2 ww bread HEB, butter 2syns, 1 slice of ham 1.5 syns cheese rest of HEA
water
2 oranges
pasta and cheese HEA
strawberries and 1 petit flu 1.5syns
not the best day, as id prefer to stick to EE if i can- but much better than any other day. Mainly cos iv been poorly today, so at home.. slept between. xx
2 weetabix HEB some milk part HEA 1 clementine
water
1 petit flue pot, 1.5syns
2 ww bread HEB, butter 2syns, 1 slice of ham 1.5 syns cheese rest of HEA
water
2 oranges
pasta and cheese HEA
strawberries and 1 petit flu 1.5syns
not the best day, as id prefer to stick to EE if i can- but much better than any other day. Mainly cos iv been poorly today, so at home.. slept between. xx
Last edited:
Littleslimmingbee
Gold Member
brill thanks honey. x
Littleslimmingbee
Gold Member
breakfast: 2 crushed alpen lights on chopped fresh mango and oranges HEB
1 petit flu 1.5syns
hot choc 2syns
jellypot with strawbs 1 syn
petit flu 1.5syns
pasta with cheese HEA
clementines, pinapple, grapes, oranges, apple. mullerlight
clementine
chicken, lettuce, sweetcorn, spring onion and cucumber in balsamic vinegar.
jelly and strawbs 1/2 syn
6 syns EE day.
1 petit flu 1.5syns
hot choc 2syns
jellypot with strawbs 1 syn
petit flu 1.5syns
pasta with cheese HEA
clementines, pinapple, grapes, oranges, apple. mullerlight
clementine
chicken, lettuce, sweetcorn, spring onion and cucumber in balsamic vinegar.
jelly and strawbs 1/2 syn
6 syns EE day.
Littleslimmingbee
Gold Member
EURRRRGH. Okay guys. Im weighing a wopping 10 st 9.5lbs. Im dangerously close to 11st and havnt been this weight since april 2009- can you believe that?
Today (Thursday):
breakfast- 8.00
chopped strawberries, banana, and grapes topped with a sprinkling of sweetener.
9:00 activia fat free yogurt
10:00 1 alpen, 2 thorntons chocs, 5 syns.
11: 1 alpen (HEB)
Banana
diet coke
12:00Pasta, tuna, spring onion and cucumber.. with drop of light mayo 1 syn.
2:00 2 apples
5:00
chicken breast, bbq sauce 1.5syns, cheese HEA, salad leaves, carrots, cucumber, tomatoes ans spring onion.
activia fat free yogurt
7.5 syns for the day.
Friday: as planned..
7:00 breakfast: strawberries, apple, grapes, cherries. sweetener.
8:00: banana
9:00 alpen light (heb)
10:00 apple
11: alpen light (rest of HEB)
12: activia yogurt, jelly 1/2 syn, pasta tuna salad (cucumber, spring onions) and 1 hard boiled egg.
1-2 apple
tea: mash, beans and cheese HEA
as you can see i have to eat more or less every hour on the hour to avoid extreme nausia and sickness! but iv been using my alpens and spreading them out to help.
xxx
Today (Thursday):
breakfast- 8.00
chopped strawberries, banana, and grapes topped with a sprinkling of sweetener.
9:00 activia fat free yogurt
10:00 1 alpen, 2 thorntons chocs, 5 syns.
11: 1 alpen (HEB)
Banana
diet coke
12:00Pasta, tuna, spring onion and cucumber.. with drop of light mayo 1 syn.
2:00 2 apples
5:00
chicken breast, bbq sauce 1.5syns, cheese HEA, salad leaves, carrots, cucumber, tomatoes ans spring onion.
activia fat free yogurt
7.5 syns for the day.
Friday: as planned..
7:00 breakfast: strawberries, apple, grapes, cherries. sweetener.
8:00: banana
9:00 alpen light (heb)
10:00 apple
11: alpen light (rest of HEB)
12: activia yogurt, jelly 1/2 syn, pasta tuna salad (cucumber, spring onions) and 1 hard boiled egg.
1-2 apple
tea: mash, beans and cheese HEA
as you can see i have to eat more or less every hour on the hour to avoid extreme nausia and sickness! but iv been using my alpens and spreading them out to help.
xxx
Littleslimmingbee
Gold Member
Hi gals, Im okay..
fridays food went to plan.. today iv had 2 weetabix and some milk HEA and HEB..
2 pears
some pinapple and an apple..
pasta with tuna and cheese rest of HEA
activia snack pot fat free yog
and tonight im having syn free curry and brown rice with total 0% yog.. ....... wev got loads of naaans and poppadoms though so iv gotta be strong!
I ate some shortbread i shouldnt have eaten thurs night, and a few chocs thurs but in general im 100% on plan and really trying hard.
Im still panicking about my weight, im just feeling really fat. OH made a comment about me 'getting heavy' when i was sat on his lap this morn. . . im so scared im going to get puffy and big.. sob. Iv got spots all over my forehead and chest and im certainly not glowing, i feel like iv got such a long way to go till august and im beginning to wish i would just have my baby and not be pregnant. x
fridays food went to plan.. today iv had 2 weetabix and some milk HEA and HEB..
2 pears
some pinapple and an apple..
pasta with tuna and cheese rest of HEA
activia snack pot fat free yog
and tonight im having syn free curry and brown rice with total 0% yog.. ....... wev got loads of naaans and poppadoms though so iv gotta be strong!
I ate some shortbread i shouldnt have eaten thurs night, and a few chocs thurs but in general im 100% on plan and really trying hard.
Im still panicking about my weight, im just feeling really fat. OH made a comment about me 'getting heavy' when i was sat on his lap this morn. . . im so scared im going to get puffy and big.. sob. Iv got spots all over my forehead and chest and im certainly not glowing, i feel like iv got such a long way to go till august and im beginning to wish i would just have my baby and not be pregnant. x
Littleslimmingbee
Gold Member
saturday:
2weetabix.. HEB and milk HEA
yogurt..
fruits..
pasta and cheese HEA (rest of)
brown rice, syn free curry and VLF yog..
sunday: started off with weetabix... then a tuna pasta salad.. then i chucked it all up on side of the road and could only manage chips then.....
monday: off work poorly due to yesterdays crappyness...
2 slices of ww malted danice.. (part HEB) baked beans and scrambled eggs..
2 pears
apple
pasta with bacon and cheese HEA
and one slice of ww malted danish, rest of HEB (3slices for HEB)
cherries..
planning mash and quorn sausages and baked beans.. for tea time x
2weetabix.. HEB and milk HEA
yogurt..
fruits..
pasta and cheese HEA (rest of)
brown rice, syn free curry and VLF yog..
sunday: started off with weetabix... then a tuna pasta salad.. then i chucked it all up on side of the road and could only manage chips then.....
monday: off work poorly due to yesterdays crappyness...
2 slices of ww malted danice.. (part HEB) baked beans and scrambled eggs..
2 pears
apple
pasta with bacon and cheese HEA
and one slice of ww malted danish, rest of HEB (3slices for HEB)
cherries..
planning mash and quorn sausages and baked beans.. for tea time x
prawnchopSuey
Gold Member
Oh my gosh, you are a trooper Fern, this baby is not being kind to you at all is it?
Don't worry about your weight at the moment, I think you need to focus on trying to get all the nutrients you can without bringing them back up. I am sure most of the 'puffiness' is water retention as I've heard some women retain lots of fluid when they're pregnant. Try not to let your body consciousness ruin your pregnancy
Don't worry about your weight at the moment, I think you need to focus on trying to get all the nutrients you can without bringing them back up. I am sure most of the 'puffiness' is water retention as I've heard some women retain lots of fluid when they're pregnant. Try not to let your body consciousness ruin your pregnancy
Littleslimmingbee
Gold Member
eurgh. its really starting to get me down. Im not sure whats worse, my complete lack of motivation and the wieght gain or the sickness.
Im on sw online as we speak and i was really hoping there might be a bit for pregnant ladies. Im REALLY struggeling with this.
Im on sw online as we speak and i was really hoping there might be a bit for pregnant ladies. Im REALLY struggeling with this.
Saddle Bags
Full Member
Hey Fern
Sorry you're feeling sick but it'll be worth it in the end. I was soooooooo sick with both my babies, morning, noon and night - don't know why they call it morning sickness. The best thing I found were travel sickness bands. Don't know if you've tried them, just get them at a chemist, they are like a sweatband only thinner with a quite hard and to be honest uncomfortable until you get used to it, plastic little ball type thing on them. Anyway, that presses on your pressure point to stop the sickness - worth a try, they worked for me. If you've got em and tried em and they've failed I'll shut up!!
xxxxx
Sorry you're feeling sick but it'll be worth it in the end. I was soooooooo sick with both my babies, morning, noon and night - don't know why they call it morning sickness. The best thing I found were travel sickness bands. Don't know if you've tried them, just get them at a chemist, they are like a sweatband only thinner with a quite hard and to be honest uncomfortable until you get used to it, plastic little ball type thing on them. Anyway, that presses on your pressure point to stop the sickness - worth a try, they worked for me. If you've got em and tried em and they've failed I'll shut up!!
xxxxx
