A question of carbs

[BordersGirl]

S&S seems like a very flexible plan, and so it is but we do need to keep things in perspective if we're going off piste in any way.

Question for Weasey - if you add up the carbs in 4 LL packs including 1 bar and maybe a savoury drink what does it come to? The reason I ask is that 4 S&S packs per day will probably contain something similar but start adding in carbs for the veg, milk, bigger bars (Tesco and BL), salad dressings, spices etc. and I wonder if that would take you over the 'ketosis limit'?

And does your current plan keep you in ketosis and how many carbs (approx) does it contain?

 

[weasey]

4 random LL packs...

Apple and Cinnamon porridge - 126 cal / 12.9 g carbs
Pasta Carbonara - 130 cal / 12.5 g carbs
Vanilla shake - 125 cal / 12.58 g carbs
Crispy Cranberry and Raspberry bar - 204 cal / 18.5 g carbs

I don't have the details for the savoury brooth - sorry.

So total carbs are less than 60g. Some people do have to cut out the bars if they have trouble with their weight loss and stick to 4 of the other packs instead.

 

[weasey]

On LL lite I am supposed to have 3 packs and a protein meal. It should be around 800 cals min but I don't do it as they say... On a typical day I might have an LL apple and cinnamon porridge, SnS spag bol with broccoli, protein meal, SnS bar. I rarely have an LL bar anymore. I am supposed to have milk in LL lite but I don't. There is a much larger list of proteins than on SnS and I do have these - but I have them in SnS amounts (so 100g chicken rather than 200g).

I stick roughly to the SnS veggie list (which is more restricted than LLL) but sometimes I have a bit more than 200g - LLL says you should have at least 240g. Also I have 2 tsp fat a day - eg salad dressing 27 cal / 3.4 g carbs.

I have no idea what that ends up at calorie/carb wise! Less than 800 cals I guess!

 

[BordersGirl]

Thanks. I guess I'm just worried about the number of people who seem to think they can just keep adding things into the diet without it having an effect.

So taking 4 S&S packs at random:

Banana shake 13.4g
Truffa bar 14.7
Spag bol 14.2
Strawberry shake 13.55

Making a total of 55.85g of carbs before you add any veggies or milk that are likely to add about another 10g (more if you choose the higher carb veggies!) so that takes you up to over 60 and approaching 70. Start substituting a S&S bar for a BL or Tesco bar and you're probably in the danger zone in terms of ketosis I should think.

If on 3 packs and protein (assuming you include a carb free protein) then on the products above (losing the final shake) the amount for 3 packs is 42.3g and with the veg and milk adding approx 10g that's just below 60g. You might get away with a BL or Tesco bar with 3 packs - but may not if you're on 4 packs, especially if you are having the milk and veg.

I suppose what I'm saying is be careful and don't assume that you can add in all sorts - if you're 'playing' with the diet then make sure you count the carbs as to work effectively this diet does need you to be in ketosis.

 

[BordersGirl]

And checking out Exante, only 3 products are allowed and taking a shake, a soup and a bar at random the carb count is 60g. Nothing is allowed to be added (as far as I know) so that is it. The bars are 23g of carbs so a BL or Tesco bar could well be an appropriate substitute on that diet. I just don't see how it's an appropriate substitute for a S&S bar if you have 4 packs, veggies, milk, and whatever else you add.

 

[Starlight]

When BL and Tesco were originally mentioned on Exante, Exante were contacted and said they were so similar that they were a suitable replacement. They changed their mind a few months later and said they weren't. General consensus was they realised they'd shot themselves in the foot saying that

I know I personally wouldn't have them on S&S

 

[Maka]

Maybe S&S is moving towards being an LCD rather than vlcd. AAW8 had on their Rapid Plan: 4 packs, a snack e.g. an egg or nuts and 250ml skimmed milk per day.

 

[BordersGirl]

If you stick to the plan rules it's a VLCD but if you start being maverick about what to include it could easily become a LCD without too much effort on an individual's part. If that's what people want and can stick to that's absolutely fine but of course a LCD doesn't generally produce the losses that a VLCD does.

 

[Starlight]

I dont think its moving towards that its sort of like giving more options... Like Exante has Ts/WS, CD has SS and SS+ etc. almost all the VLCDs have an option of a plan purely with packs and a plan with both packs and food

 

[BordersGirl]

I think that having options is absolutely fine, just that people should understand the implications of the options they choose.

 

[Elemental]

I count everything i have on my fitness pal, and just recently have started missing backs and having protein because i am so obsessed about keeping my carbs under 50g and my cals under 600 so my diet has morphed into some low carb very low calorie diet that leads me to eating crap on the weekend and still losing weight (i am talking hot dogs cheddar etc).

This all started from adding ketchup to my packs, then mayo to my tuna and checking everything on MFP to make sure i was under. Now i get annoyed when i add four packs and go over 50g which is encouraging me to have the protein meal.

In summary, what every makes the diet more tolerable, i think people should tailor it to their needs and log every calorie and g of carbs and stick to whatever their goals are. then no one is kidding themselves?

 

[Pinklady1911]

Umm BG great debate there! Tbh i never even thought about that before, but there has been times that i have had a BL bar and protein meal with veg and and a shake or something! Its obvious to me now, i think i may have over done it on the calories! But then thinking about it there were days last week that i was that busy i only had 3 shakes all day and no 4th or protein meal! Still its something i will definietly be checking from now on! Great post

 

[BordersGirl]

Trouble is Elemental, if you don't have the packs you're stepping into the world of a DIY VLCD which Minimins don't support because it's dangerous. The packs are made up the way they are because they are nutritionally balanced MRPs. If you substitute a MRP for a bit of cheese then that's not balanced at all, and might harm you. Losing weight is important but it's equally important to do it healthily. And this is from someone who did LT a few years ago (shakes only) and because I hated the shakes I used to skip the packs and just have 1 or 2 a day. There were even days where I remember having no packs at all because I didn't really like them. That really wasn't healthy and God knows if it did me any damage. This time round I'm choosing the healther option, and I'm still losing weight and I will get to my goal.

 

[Elemental]

Yeah I had thought about that. But i think if anything what i'm doing is more like atkins than DIY VLCD. Granted if i were officially on atkins then i'd probably eat way more calories though. I have come out of ketosis every weekend in the three weeks since i started, i've been shockingly off the rails!!! But it's part of my nature unfortunately where i see a loophole, cheat or an easy fix i will always take it. I am hoping that maybe i don't lose next WI so i might take control a bit